Demoulius Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 i thought the general tactic was: point them at the enemies general direction and laugh hystericly? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222050-tactics-for-death-company/page/3/#findComment-2655230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Thanks for the tips Mort. Very good insight that is. :) G :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222050-tactics-for-death-company/page/3/#findComment-2655262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Mort, those were good tips! Thanks for sharing with us! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222050-tactics-for-death-company/page/3/#findComment-2655268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Cuthbert Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I've changed my mind about DC recently, following a successful tournament. I used to tell all my friends, and people online that they shouldnt bother with DC without a Chaplain. And while I still maintain that a DC/Chap combo is INSANELY good, its no longer a necessity in my mind. We need to look at a few (obvious?) things when thinking about the DC. Firstly, their perks: WS5. Base 2 attacks. FC. FNP. Fearless. Relatively low per model cost. Multiple Special Weapons. Then, their disadvantages: Rage Expensive JPs. Their disadvantages are VERY easy to deal with. One - dont use JPs. (Which means poor Lemmy is only gonna see use in a Raven). Two - learn how to use and mitigate "Rage" where you can. Dealing With Rage Issues ( ^_^ ) : 1: Understand that moving towards the closest visible enemy unit does not mean you must charge that unit. Most of us are aware of this point by now, but it still slips by some people. 2: Understand that moving towards the closest visible enemy unit does not prevent you from moving the majority of your squad somewhere else or where you need it to go* *This is a contentious issue due to its counter-intuitiveness, but a very clear one by rules. If one DC model has moved from its start position to a position closer to the nearest visible enemy unit, then the rest of the unit is free to move anywhere. The reason? The unit is now closer to the unit. People often argue that the unit = models and that all models must move closer. This is not the case, and not supported by the rules. In the (poor windows paint) pic below, take a look at the light grey area. This area is "the unit". Take a look at A and B. The unit is now closer in B than it was in A. This is us fulfilling the Rage movement requirement. http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6868/dcmovement.jpg In this picture, for arguments sake, if we are now in charge range of the big pink unit, we are good to go. We could even shoot that unit too. The only disadvantage to this is that we spread our models so far out that we risk not gaining enough attacks to kill a unit. Other stuff: DC are a hammer unit. Pure and simple. They are a fire and forget style unit, or an uber-counter if you need one. They are troops, but not scoring. Use them to strike terror into the hearts of the opponent. One thing to be very careful of and its also why I wont bling on PowerWeapons too much, DC can sometimes do too many wounds (especially with a Chaplain) allowing the enemy to save those power weapon wounds thanks to wound allocation shenanigans. I would DEFINITELY go with one powerfist for every 5 DC, or part thereof - ie: 8 DC - two fists/hammers. With a Chaplain, I would field a minimum of 6 DC. Maybe with one fist. Without a Chaplain, I would field a minimum of 8 DC. For my tastes and points notwithstanding I would go for a hammer, a fist and a PW. Also, remember that every hammer/fist should get a bolter and an additional bolter is not a bad idea as far as wound allocation is concerned! My choice of transport for DC is a Rhino, though a Raven and a Land Raider seem like very viable options too. I have no experience with pods, so would prefer not to speculate beyond the theory hammer concern of you dropping down and getting targetted by anything/everything and then countered into oblivion. My thoughts on using the DC! Good luck. Interesting point of view on these guys. I have nothing against your comments save that I do not believe that 20 pts per model is a relatively cheap expense. I would consider this more of a con that a pro. Other than that good analysis. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222050-tactics-for-death-company/page/3/#findComment-2655295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Cuthbert Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I can see judging by the responses that I am in the minority concerning DC. I frequently use one small 5 man squad with base wargear for 100 pts. This unit can get too outta hand cost wise when you start adding toys. I bring them for primarily 2 reasons; 1. Unlock the DC Dread (with Blood Talons this guy is BEAST) 2. Decoy. At 100 pts I can afford to lose this unit provided is accomplishes one of 3 things; A. Kills at least 1 KP or cost equivalent. B. Occupy my opponent from killing the units that I need to accomplish my objectives. C. Keep opposing units from scoring, this is really an extension of A but bears repeating that 40K is a game of objectives more often than not. Eliminating your opponent's ability to score objectives is a good way to win the majority of your games. I generally put the DC in a transport Razorback or reserve a Pod. I have put them into Ravens before but prefer to have Assault Squads there. The DC Dread nearly always goes in a Raven and has yet to not kill at least 1 unit, usually he gets 2-3 since I can typically get my opponent to split fire trying to deal with other agressive units. A different perspective, hope it helps round out your opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222050-tactics-for-death-company/page/3/#findComment-2655306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Interesting point of view on these guys. I have nothing against your comments save that I do not believe that 20 pts per model is a relatively cheap expense. I would consider this more of a con that a pro. Other than that good analysis. I think it's a case that they are relatively low cost for what you get for that cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222050-tactics-for-death-company/page/3/#findComment-2655315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SincaiN Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I like to use them more as an annoyance. This isn't Tourney or anything just fun. 8 - 10 w/ Bolters / 1 Fist in a Drop Pod I've been doing this for the past few games and it always works wonders. You know the DC are going to die anyway so I use them as a distraction and drop the pod right next to something they placed in the back field like Long Fangs or such. Boom, your opponent now has something he has to deal with right in his face. And while he's dealing with the DC it gives you a chance to close in or maneuverer with the rest of your boys. I take all bolters as the first turn for them is going to be all shooting and they are probably going to come under a lot of fire so want them to get in as much of a punc as possible but with FnP they usually survive pretty well. The pod comes in 1st turn so you know they are going to be there and depending on the terrain you opponent has a new piece of it in their area, last game I closed up a passage between two buildings which made my friend take the long away around the building. If the Pod is now in front of a heavy squad they either waste turns trying to pop the pod or have to move around it. So far everytime I've done it my friends groan. It throws their plans for the first few turns out the window. Love it :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222050-tactics-for-death-company/page/3/#findComment-2655353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus_Sanguinius Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 One thing to be very careful of and its also why I wont bling on PowerWeapons too much, DC can sometimes do too many wounds (especially with a Chaplain) allowing the enemy to save those power weapon wounds thanks to wound allocation shenanigans. I would DEFINITELY go with one powerfist for every 5 DC, or part thereof - ie: 8 DC - two fists/hammers. Thanks Mort for sharing your thoughts with us. Yeah, the wound allocation could be a problem. So, if you are going to give your DC some power weapons go for the real deal an give them all one so wound allocation will be no problem anymore. The downside of this of course is that a 6 man squad becomes quite expensive. Cheers Sang Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222050-tactics-for-death-company/page/3/#findComment-2655407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isryion Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Interesting point of view on these guys. I have nothing against your comments save that I do not believe that 20 pts per model is a relatively cheap expense. I would consider this more of a con that a pro. Other than that good analysis. I think it's a case that they are relatively low cost for what you get for that cost. Just wanted to add to Captain's post....The FNP, FC bonus would essentially cost an additional 50 points (min) to get with another unit. The WS 5 is also a big upgrade. Comparing them to other elite units, they are a steal provided you can deal with the rage easily. Of course, that's without JP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222050-tactics-for-death-company/page/3/#findComment-2655592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Interesting point of view on these guys. I have nothing against your comments save that I do not believe that 20 pts per model is a relatively cheap expense. I would consider this more of a con that a pro. Other than that good analysis. I think it's a case that they are relatively low cost for what you get for that cost. Lord Cuth, Cap. Juan Juarez highlighted my point. Regular BA marines are 16points. For four points more you get: +1 WS +1 Attack Furious Charge Fearless Feel No Pain Relentless and the down side of rage. The foot DC are amongst the most undercosted units in the entire game for what they do and the only reason there hasnt been blue bloody murder screamed is because of the rage issue making them much more difficult/unattractive to use. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222050-tactics-for-death-company/page/3/#findComment-2656363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Thankyou for that Mort.Everyone has one particular unit in teh BA that just seems to sing to them, mine are the DC. Podding is great IMHO because i can use 10 guys to tie up and usually kill, at least one large mob and very reliably get to where i want them by using the drop pod rules well. Last game my 10 dc (w/o upgrades at all) managed to hold up 30 firewarriors and 12 kroot for 3 turns, effectivly leeaving the suits with absolutly no protection.Next turn it was melted hammerheads and busted suits. The principle works just as well against guard, Chaos marines or dark eldar )just watch the wyches). Also, if any DC survive a battle, youve done something wrong.They are there for a glorious death, its the least we can give them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222050-tactics-for-death-company/page/3/#findComment-2656402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanct Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 DC cost: Take Chaos Zerkers. Give them rage, FNP, relentless, more special CCW, rerolls with a chappy, and access to the DC dread Take from them the scoring, and a point of leadership Make them one point cheaper a piece. Profit??? Seriously wondering how blood angels do zerker better than chaos Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222050-tactics-for-death-company/page/3/#findComment-2656412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 An Office Rules Rage thread. Follow the link if one is curious how Rage is interpreted currently. If enough folks play it right and folks calm down about it all, I may use them myself. They are, as Mort's stated, the best marines there are. BTW, Mort. You forgot Relentless. =) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222050-tactics-for-death-company/page/3/#findComment-2656415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 BTW, Mort. You forgot Relentless. =) ;) well spotted matey! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222050-tactics-for-death-company/page/3/#findComment-2656460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Thinning out your unit in the way Mort illustrated will also actually help you not wipe out an enemy unit in 1 phase and hopefully kill them in their turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222050-tactics-for-death-company/page/3/#findComment-2656477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I've been starting to come around on DC, in fact I've returned them to what is to be my "more competitive" list (which I have yet to test out). The rage movement issue is tough, as RAW is pretty clear but many people seem to refuse to accept it (A FAQ is really needed on this one to help get this settled). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222050-tactics-for-death-company/page/3/#findComment-2656576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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