WarpWhisper Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I was just looking at the new article on the GW regarding BA Dreadnoughts here, when I found the following portion of text: While Dreadnoughts can be found in most Space Marine Chapters, the Blood Angels, and their Successor Chapters are able to field more than most, including formidable Furioso Dreadnoughts. They are said to be the most venerable of all Space Marines, a few can even recount events from the Battle for the Emperor's Palace, ten millennia ago. Now this made me quite sad, as I always enjoyed the fluff behind Bjorn, and quite liked that he was the only living Loyalist (barring frozen Primarchs) who had seen the Emperor at his most powerful. Just to make sure that I hadn't overlooked their entry in the codex, I went back and looked at what it said about Furiosos: Furioso Dreadnoughts are the most venerable of all. Many bear the scars earned during the Battle for the Emperor's Palace, ten millennia ago. When I read this, I automatically assumed that this statement was talking about the Furioso chassis itself, not the pilot inside. But now, I'm not so sure. :D So, what do you guys think? Did I just interpret the codex wrongly? Or did Andy Hall interpret the codex wrongly when he wrote the new article? Or have GW retconned Bjorn from being the oldest Dread? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I prefer to think the Dreadnought chasis are that old, but the pilots are not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2654147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahawk Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I prefer to think the Dreadnought chasis are that old, but the pilots are not. I agree with James, that's the route I've also taken. The title for the oldest Dread goes rightfully to good ol' Bjorn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2654165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Surely it makes sense we live longer so uh our dead will stay deader ...for longer or something along those lines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2654210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Yorei Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 bjorn is said to be the oldest living space marine.(his IS still living technically) but he became a dreadnought during the heresy. does not mean there are no blood angels who were dreadnoughts at the time. there were dreads of all the legions at the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2654260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 also- the chassis may have residual memory from previous occupants who did fight there so the current occupant may still possess these phantom memories. Old fluff suggests this happens with marine dreads... Possibly bjorn is the only single occupant dread and the only one with only his own memories? Something else to think about... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2654263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astorath the Grim Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 How old is Moriar? At least I think thats his name... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2654264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Yorei Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 there is no definate info out there on how old moriar is but he was interred after the battle of clamogha. that was after the heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2654274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hengist Ironfang Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Bjorn was not interred during the Heresy, He was a wolf guard to Russ during the Heresy (the youngest) and was left behind to lead the chapter after Russ went off in search of the tree of life, Russ left 1 year after the Heresy ended, As Russ was present for the Codex Astartes debates I believe this means after the scouring too. This would indicate that Bjorn would have been a "mortal" Astartes during the Heresy and a chapter master afterwards only becoming a dreadnought some time later. Bjorn May be the only Dreadnought to remember the Emperor, as a wolfguard to Russ he may have been in the presence of the big E at some point or another, This doesnt mean he was the oldest dread though, another Marine who remembers the Heresy may never have been anywhere near the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2654326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Devlonir Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hengist Ironfang makes a good point there. Especially considering that Sanguinius' personal Honor Guard who could have known Big E personally were all but one said to be by his side in the Space Hulk when he battled Horus. So that would indeed not create a conflict in fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2654345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 +1 for hengist ironfang for bailing GW out of their own mess. 3 cheers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2654358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB66 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Maybe the BA's have more Dreds cause of the Red Thirst and Black Rage? - heres my Theory, If you have the BA's who have a higher tendency of falling into the red thirst or black rage......this puts them at a higher rate to charge headlong into close combat with out concern for themselves. this leads to increased mortal wounds that would lead to more marines being encased in Dreadnoughts to keep them alive? Does that sound right? HB66 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2654390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabgoi Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 When it is a choice between the mini fluff put up by GW marketing people and the fluff in the codex I tend to go with the codex. The Dreadnaughts being from the crusade, the pilots being another story all together. And Moriar would be no where close to challenging Byorn for age, he was the fourth occupant of that dreadnaught, preceded by Belaphon, Dario, and Amaretto. I am not sure how long the usual pilot lasts, but it has to be a good amount of time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2654403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 *coughsanguinatorcough* i dont really have a problem either way. having longer lived marines would make me think we have older dreads. though i dont like stepping on the wolves toes fluff wise like how we did with the dreads protecting baal... thing is if they were there at the emperors palace then they were at least in dread armour, and were around when sanguinius died... how the flip could they have survived the red thirst and black rage? unless it is getting stronger each generation... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2654463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 *coughsanguinatorcough* i dont really have a problem either way. having longer lived marines would make me think we have older dreads. though i dont like stepping on the wolves toes fluff wise like how we did with the dreads protecting baal... thing is if they were there at the emperors palace then they were at least in dread armour, and were around when sanguinius died... how the flip could they have survived the red thirst and black rage? unless it is getting stronger each generation... heresy era angels didn't suffer from the black rage, after sanguinius' death, it was every round of recruits after his death, and yes the codex does at the very least hint at the idea that the flaw is getting stronger every generation. but i do believe that all angels did suffer a 'mini-rage' so to speak where they flip out after sanguinius is severly wounded (see that one battle i can't remember the name of against...that deamon...kabandah?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2654474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 yea, it started when he died. not only when horus died did all the traitors run, but when sanguinius died all ba went mad and charged tooo... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2654507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 hmm GW fluff contradicting itself, thats new :P i think its unlikely that BA dreads (post heresy) would have survived that long. pre heresy though, marines werent afflicted with the gene curse and i could easily see some surviving the carnage at the imperial palace. if bjorn can survive for such a long time why couldnt a blood angel? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2654593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Bjorn's only described as "one of the oldest" in IA: Dreadnoughts. But it still sucks that they'd take the awesome away from him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2654620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Man I Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Bjorn was one of Russ's Wolfguard during the Heresy, and was most likely a Grey Hunter before that. "Young" is a realitive term when it comes to Space Marines. So there could have been Blood Angels that were created during the heresy, were there at the defence of the palace, but still after Bjorn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2654786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 ---A "minor" spoiler in the soul hunter novel... Nothing that affects the story though. In the book soul hunter a night lord dreadnought fights a BA dreadnought somewhere in the ending chapters of the book... and apparently they fought eachother at the gates of the emperors palace when they still were "alive"... So that BA dreadnought was 10k years old And this strongly suggests that the furioso pilots are 10k years old Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2655159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 And this strongly suggests that the furioso pilots are 10k years old The waiting list for one of these things must be frakin rediculous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2655200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 i think even space marines die of old age before it becomes available :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2655208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 And this strongly suggests that the furioso pilots are 10k years old The waiting list for one of these things must be frakin rediculous. now serving number....nope! just kidding! interred marines "awwwwww" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2655350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 ---A "minor" spoiler in the soul hunter novel... Nothing that affects the story though. In the book soul hunter a night lord dreadnought fights a BA dreadnought somewhere in the ending chapters of the book... and apparently they fought eachother at the gates of the emperors palace when they still were "alive"... So that BA dreadnought was 10k years old And this strongly suggests that the furioso pilots are 10k years old personally i think that GW needs to have a small talk with the BL writers...i think the authors are kind of going a little bit over board with some things like that. i've got no problem with the chasis being 10k+ years old, but the pilots surviving 10k+ years of battle...just very statistically unlikely (this coming from a guy who hates numbers.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2655355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 maby thats why our captais cant get artificer armour, the techmarines are full time flat out building furisos... also explains where our vet tech marines are, and the master of the forge... :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222092-have-our-furiosos-suddenly-gotten-older/#findComment-2655362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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