VV

[Grizzly Adams]

well, i am considering trying out some VV in my list, to add a little more "go ;) yourself" to it, and i thought that this unit's ability to assault out of deep strike could really screw up some of the enemy's plans. So i have built it thus, and it came out a little expensive, but i think it should be pretty survivable, tell me what you think

 

Whole Squad w/ jump packs

Sarge - LC, SS

1 w/ - PW, SS

3 w/ - TH, SS

 

Attached Sanguinary priest w/ JP & PW

 

So they have Furious charge, Feel no pain, and 3++ all the way around. And they can get into assault right away. What y'all think?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I often use a similar build. I throw in a couple Marines without shields to soak small arms fire.

 

G ;)

[JamesI]

If you attach a Priest, you lose the ability to assault when you deep strike.

[Stormbrow II]

Attached Sanguinary priest w/ JP & PW

You'll need to rethink this fella as VV can't use the Heroic Intervention rule if there is an IC with them. The best you can do is hope that there is a Priest within 6" of the unit when they hit combat.

[TrentL]

If you attach a Priest, you lose the ability to assault when you deep strike.

 

Sad but true... I think that BA should have some sort of method to do this with Dante personally but oh well :0

 

The best I've manged to do is have Dante + Honor guard + VV come in at the same time, Place the VV first, then Dante lands exactly where he needs to to extend the FC bubble to the VV when they charge. I oven do this around important troop carriers, the HG Land, give the FnP bubble, crack the transport, and the VV eat whats inside. And with DoA you can re-roll to try and make sure they arrive at the same time.

 

I've been playing with the idea of a 10man VV because everything I've read that Troops that not in vechiles are combat squaded when they are placed on the table. So Place the 10man VV, then combat squad them, then youc an charge 2 units with 1 reserve roll. I'm still not 100% sure its okay but in theory....

 

But thats dependant on both squads deciding to join the fight at the same time.

[Grizzly Adams]

If you attach a Priest, you lose the ability to assault when you deep strike.

Attached Sanguinary priest w/ JP & PW

You'll need to rethink this fella as VV can't use the Heroic Intervention rule if there is an IC with them. The best you can do is hope that there is a Priest within 6" of the unit when they hit combat.

If you attach a Priest, you lose the ability to assault when you deep strike.

Sad but true... I think that BA should have some sort of method to do this with Dante personally but oh well :0

 

well crap, i knew that, brain must've farted. Ok, so without the priest then, how do we feel?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Same as I said above.

 

G ;)

[Grizzly Adams]

i may swap 2 of the TH's for PF's, save some points and add a lil more wound allocation, and in most instances the initiative change won't matter, as most hings go dead to a ST 8 smack to the face

[Vincent Black Shadow]

With the priest attached, VV cannot assault the turn that they land, since the priest does not have Heroic Intervention. They can join up in the assault, but then you're relying on two units getting reserve rolls at the same time.

 

Using them like hammernators is surely viable, but you're relying on reserve rolls and deep strike scatter instead of a land raider.

 

Maybe drop them out of a Stormraven?

[Grizzly Adams]

With the priest attached, VV cannot assault the turn that they land, since the priest does not have Heroic Intervention. They can join up in the assault, but then you're relying on two units getting reserve rolls at the same time.

 

addressed above.

 

Using them like hammernators is surely viable, but you're relying on reserve rolls and deep strike scatter instead of a land raider.

 

Maybe drop them out of a Stormraven?

 

i thought about it, i just don't want to make the squad any more expensive, as it's already ridin at 370 w/ 3 th's or 360 w/ 2 pf's and a th. I'd hate to throw 200 more at em. and my goal is to disrupt the enemy's plans by assaulting as soon as they come on. If i was gonna put them in a raven, i may as well take DC instead.

[Kurb]

well, i am considering trying out some VV in my list, to add a little more "go :cuss yourself" to it, and i thought that this unit's ability to assault out of deep strike could really screw up some of the enemy's plans. So i have built it thus, and it came out a little expensive, but i think it should be pretty survivable, tell me what you think

 

Whole Squad w/ jump packs

Sarge - LC, SS

1 w/ - PW, SS

3 w/ - TH, SS

 

Attached Sanguinary priest w/ JP & PW

 

So they have Furious charge, Feel no pain, and 3++ all the way around. And they can get into assault right away. What y'all think?

 

 

If he is gonna have a SS the PW/SS guy will be better off with a LC.

He is gonna lose the attack for having the SS anyways.

[Grizzly Adams]

well, i am considering trying out some VV in my list, to add a little more "go :( yourself" to it, and i thought that this unit's ability to assault out of deep strike could really screw up some of the enemy's plans. So i have built it thus, and it came out a little expensive, but i think it should be pretty survivable, tell me what you think

 

Whole Squad w/ jump packs

Sarge - LC, SS

1 w/ - PW, SS

3 w/ - TH, SS

 

Attached Sanguinary priest w/ JP & PW

 

So they have Furious charge, Feel no pain, and 3++ all the way around. And they can get into assault right away. What y'all think?

 

 

If he is gonna have a SS the PW/SS guy will be better off with a LC.

He is gonna lose the attack for having the SS anyways.

 

yeah, i'd be inclined to agree with ya on that, seein as how they are the same points cost.

[Brother Nathan]

mmm, almost too killy for the targets they should be pointed at. ie vvs i would point them at tacical squad on objective, or long fang types i dont want shooting. i would maby suggest thinking about remoing a fist or 2 and maby a sheild for allocation and point saving.

[Emperors Immortals]

You can have the priest arrive in the second turn if you want, or even in a drop pod right near intended target (if your good).

 

I regularily have a TDA priest DS to a Tac squad , detach from his termie unit and attach to teh tac squad.Unshiftable objective sitter, and the termies can then walk forward killing everything.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I would not worry about getting a Priest into range of the VV drop. It is at best very situational. Treat VV as a unit that operates on their own is a simple method that yields good results. You have to strike a balance with them.

 

G :P

[Redfinger]

VV's have the same problem that a lot of BA units have, the "oooohhh so shiney...." effect, meaning great performing base units can et expensive reeeaaalll fast, for that reason I think is why BA more so than any other SM chapter benefit so much from unit synergies, I like your idea about the priest, but it just doesn't work out. I mostly use VV for my jump lists, to provide a shield wall and a way to take out/tie up key units early on, I have yet to try using them in any sort of mech/hybrid list as frankly I think there are better options for those types of lists....

 

I would be taking this kind of approach when trying to figure out what to keep them equipped with...

 

First off what does my list need? Putting that much punch, TH's and PF's into a single unit is all well and fine, IF that is what you are needing, but I would counter argue that there are other units that can proved the needed punch you may be looking for that cost far less and not overkill. Which brings me to a second point, is too much of anyone "kind" in this unit, by mind I mean cc punch anti av punch, ect...back to my original point about BA needing synergies to work, I think part of that synergy is balance, a VV unit as described seems grossly unbalanced to me, and unless you are playing over 2k, just doesn't seem right.

 

I read a post the other day in which a guy mentioned that he didn't like all of the "arm chair" list critiquing that goes on in the B&C, and I suppose what I just said could certainly be considered such, but I am a very strong believer in creating balanced lists, and something such as this is severely unbalanced

 

My usual VV is;

 

Sgt Glaive

PF/SS

SS

SS

pistol/ccw

 

If points allow I will sometimes add melta-bombs and an extra PW or LC depending on my mood, I am not a big math hammer fan and don't put much stock into saying one type of PW is better then another...

 

Ashton

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Only VV and HG are customizable to the that degree for jump infantry when designing an uber assault unit. That was why I first built them.

 

G :tu:

[SamaNagol]

Too many points.

 

Doesn't have any good synergy in a list.

 

Doesn't take advantage of the unique abilities of VGV.

 

The thing with VGV is this... they are the only unit in your army that can theoretically get into combat without ever having to face a single round of fire. Now look at what the bonuses of getting into combat are. Firstly: killing the enemy. The most obvious choice. If you kill the enemy unit, they cannot affect the battlefield. Secondly: tying up the enemy.... Any unit which is assault cannot move and cannot shoot. You don't need to kill them to achieve this, but there are certain models that will severely damage your army if they are allowed to move and/or shoot. Devastators/Long Fangs are a great example. Black Templars Terminators rolling with 2 CML are another. Tyranid Hive Guard or Trygons... Kaballite Truborn with a wealth of nasty guns. There's a fair few. And with these units tied up, your expensive and low model count army can come onto the table and not worry about those damaging shots whilst relying on the SPs to make basic shooting ineffective.

 

Do not just look at the obvious uses of VGV, look at how they can help the army as a whole.

 

And I always say this, but personally I never put Storm Shields on models with special weapons. I'm going to be wanting to stack wounds on those Storm Shields and force them to roll several saves. I'd rather just make the special weapon guy roll 1 save if I can help it. I always run units of 10, and always combat squad them depending on what is needed. It keeps them versatile. 6 StormShields, 2 PWs and 2 THammers. Thats just over 400pts for 2 5 man units which can get into combat and tie up the enemy's big guns, or alternatively crack open 2 vehicles.