Calth discussion

[Noctus Cornix]

Is there any way to force ADB to write an ultras book? I would buy enough copies to build myself a throne with which to read upon.

 

 

I'd rather not force anyone to write anything, otherwise it would just turn into complete crap because the author doesn't have the same motivation to write as he would if he wanted to write the book.

 

 

I will agree though that I may not be an ultra marines fan, if Aaron wrote the Ultra Marines the same way he did the beginning of First Heretic , it would be simply astounding.

 

 

Though I'd personally rather he get what he wants and write the World Eaters book instead .

[Legatus]

If Black Library really does a two parter with the Battle for Calth as they have done with the Battle for Prospero, one side from the point of view of the Word Bearers and one side with the point of view of the Ultramarines, then it is likely that A D-B will be the one writing the Word Bearer side. And that will still include a lot of Ultramarines, which would be fine with me. After seeing what we get when an author tries to write Ultramarine protagonists, I think I would much prefer if the Ultramarines were just described from a more outside point of view. I think just describing a Chapter's actions and what they do in a situation is more interresting, I do not want to follow an Ultramarine's thought processes, and do not want to see in depth dialogue. In the former case you read about awesome sci fi super soldiers, in the latter you read about characters in power armour. The latter does not really suit Space Marines that much, in my humble opinion. And it is hard to get right. Soul Hunter, which for me was the best effort yet, got most of that right, but not all of it.

[Simonius]

I want this to be a 2 parter. ADB writes the WB side of things, taking up from the end of TFH, and I fully expect Mr McNeill to write the UM side, perhaps including some exploration of their early days too..

 

I want this to be awesome, after all with virtually every marine from the 2 largest legions present this is the largest marine v marine battle outside of the Siege of Terra in all of Imperial History.

 

I would like to see the WB's planning well, fighting well, not making silly mistakes, but on the backfoot a tiny bit as the strategem with The Furious Abyss (from the book that shall not be named) having already gone awry.

I want the UMs caught by surprise, taking huge losses, struggling and then - by their very nature of being Ultramarines (disciplined, courageous, adaptive) - slowly fighting back and gaining the upper hand and eventually victory.

I don't want every single one of Guilliman's tactics coming off first time, or any secret mega weapons saving the day.

I don't want UM characters not acting like UMs.

I want their faith in themselves and the Emperor explored and to be the reason they overcome, opposed to Chaos's lies and zealotry leading the WBs astray.

 

At the end I want the victory to be magnificent, but hollow, as the UMs realise that the Heresy is real and they won't be able to get there.

 

Don't want much do I?

[Aqatone]

Is there any way to force ADB to write an ultras book? I would buy enough copies to build myself a throne with which to read upon.

 

 

I'd rather not force anyone to write anything, otherwise it would just turn into complete crap because the author doesn't have the same motivation to write as he would if he wanted to write the book.

 

 

I will agree though that I may not be an ultra marines fan, if Aaron wrote the Ultra Marines the same way he did the beginning of First Heretic , it would be simply astounding.

 

 

Though I'd personally rather he get what he wants and write the World Eaters book instead .

 

I was being sarcastic. I mean, a throne of books would mostly likely be really uncomfortable.

[Noctus Cornix]

I don't know man. Those paper back books look pretty darn comfy. :devil:

[Legatus]

I would like to see the WB's planning well, fighting well, not making silly mistakes, but on the backfoot a tiny bit as the strategem with The Furious Abyss (from the book that shall not be named) having already gone awry.

I want the UMs caught by surprise, taking huge losses, struggling and then - by their very nature of being Ultramarines (disciplined, courageous, adaptive) - slowly fighting back and gaining the upper hand and eventually victory.

The description in the Collected Visions reads a lot like that. Initially the Word bearers were very successfull. They had stunned the Ultramarines, and the Word Bearer forces were systematically breaching the scattered positions of the Ultramarines, first opening breaches with the war machines of the Dark Mechanicus, then using Daemons as shock troops and finally sending in Word Bearers to finish them off, all while employing massive hordes of cultists as living shields so that the Ultramarines could not launch effective counter attacks. If the Word Bearers would have been able to keep that pace up they could have wiped out all the Ultramarines on Calth. However, after a while the Ultramarines managed to adapt, and the rapid advance of the Word bearers was slowed and ultimately halted, where they were unable to dislodge the rmeaining forces of the Ultramarines from their positions. It was not long until the Ultramarines were then able to finally stage a few counter attacks. The two major factors that are named in the Index Astartes Word Bearers and the Collected Visions for why the Word Bearers were not able to succeed are that they had underestimated the tenacity of the Ultramarines, a lot of which had been born on Calth and were defending their own homeworld, and also their tactical briliance. A different legion might not have been able to adapt as quickly to the surprising assault on their world, with hordes of cultist and daemons, and war machines of the dark mechanicus.

[Captain Idaho]

Oh I hope we read about Guilliman breaking faces. I want to know what he is armed with, how big and tough he is and just how much of a hero he really is.

[Legatus]

The Index Astartes Word Bearers does not mention him at all, and in the Collected Visions he is directing the fleet while simultaneously coordinating the efforts of the ground forces once they managed to re-establish contact. The leader of the ground forces was mainly a Captain Ventanus. We may not be seeing him in combat in the Battle for Calth. At least not in the A D-B version, as he is careful with altering canon. Perhaps we will see more of Guilliman in the McNeill version. But then again, he might make Guilliman doubt his own Codex and only be able to win against the Word Bearers by going against it... :P

[Captain Idaho]

:P

 

I seem to remember A D-B saying something about the Ultramarines having an advantage because they have Guilliman and Lorgar wasn't there. If he is there he can be fighting at least a little. ;)

[Gree]

:lol:

 

I seem to remember A D-B saying something about the Ultramarines having an advantage because they have Guilliman and Lorgar wasn't there. If he is there he can be fighting at least a little. :D

 

I think it means in a command role. A Primarch is obviously going to be better than a non-Primarch at commanding (With exceptions like Angron at Armageddon, who needed to focus his strategy on sacrifices to Khorne)

 

Anyway, we might get an early look at Calth if Rules of Engagement is about that. McNeill's been effectively confirmed as writing the Ultramarines over at Black Library Bolthole.

[Legatus]

A Primarch is obviously going to be better than a non-Primarch at commanding (With exceptions like Angron at Armageddon, who needed to focus his strategy on sacrifices to Khorne)

The Alpha Legion got a lot better once Alpharius had been killed... :lol:

[Gree]

A Primarch is obviously going to be better than a non-Primarch at commanding (With exceptions like Angron at Armageddon, who needed to focus his strategy on sacrifices to Khorne)

The Alpha Legion got a lot better once Alpharius had been killed... :lol:

 

Once he may have been killed. The entire battle of Eskador is shrouded in Alpha Legion propaganda.

[PorridgeMeister]

Somebody say Ultramarine-hating....?

 

See Legatus, you get the gravity of the battle, now lets just inject some character, and you will finally have the evidence you need to shut up every Ultra-hater to open their mouths or flap their hands against their keyboards ever again.

 

I beg your pardon, I actually never mention the flaming Horus Heresy in my sermons against them because I think the Ultramarines were pretty cool up to and during the Heresy. It's after the Heresy that the Ultramarines go down hill and become the Smurfs that I hate so deeply. The only Ultramarines I like either die in/soon the Heresy (Lysimachus Cestus and Orar) or they help form the Second-founding Chapters, leaving the Ultramarines. From that point on, they're all pompous twits or over-praised characters that get "fluffed up" by Games Workshop. Guiliman is a complete fallace in my opinion...

 

so all the authors can get on the job of writing more stuff about Legions that have very basic history during this point. Sally's Raven guard Iron Hands Iron Warriors Night Lords White Scars.

 

I concur strongly, sir!

[Marshal Rohr]

Do you mean phallus? Or fallacy?

[Legatus]

Not only was he a fallacy, he was also somewhat of an oxymoron (as "Roboute" meant "Great One" in old Macraggan, and he is of course not great at all). And in my opinion the Horus Heresy overall was a total alliteration.

[Heru]

A Primarch is obviously going to be better than a non-Primarch at commanding (With exceptions like Angron at Armageddon, who needed to focus his strategy on sacrifices to Khorne)

The Alpha Legion got a lot better once Alpharius had been killed... :)

Which Alpharius? Last time I looked everyone in that Legion called themselves Alpharius. Three of which were Primarch sized.

[Legatus]

Which Alpharius? Last time I looked (...)

The last time you looked the Background of the Alpha Legion had been heavily retconned. When the Index Astartes article had been written, however, there had been only one Alpharius. One Alpharius that was first encountered by Horus. One Alpharius who had a debate about proper tactics with Guilliman. One Alpharius who was outraged that no one except Horus would praise his stunt tactics. One Alpharius who had swatted aside Ultramarines left and right before facing off against Guilliman. When the Index Astartes Alpha Legion says "Alpharius", it means it.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Which Alpharius? Last time I looked (...)

The last time you looked the Background of the Alpha Legion had been heavily retconned. When the Index Astartes article had been written, however, there had been only one Alpharius. One Alpharius that was first encountered by Horus. One Alpharius who had a debate about proper tactics with Guilliman. One Alpharius who was outraged that no one except Horus would praise his stunt tactics. One Alpharius who had swatted aside Ultramarines left and right before facing off against Guilliman. When the Index Astartes Alpha Legion says "Alpharius", it means it.

 

I heard that the twin primarch idea had been bantered around since the early 90's.

 

and with a IA that is pretty much full of bs, how can anybody say what it really meant?

 

WLK

[Legatus]

and with a IA that is pretty much full of bs, how can anybody say what it really meant?

Yes, obviously I should have prefaced my joking remark eight posts earlier with "if the Index startes Alpha Legion account of the Battle for Eskrador is accurate...".

[Marshal Rohr]

Shame Legatus, FOR SHAME

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

that might have helped... :ph34r:

 

WLK

[Captain Idaho]

:lol:

 

I seem to remember A D-B saying something about the Ultramarines having an advantage because they have Guilliman and Lorgar wasn't there. If he is there he can be fighting at least a little. :D

 

I think it means in a command role. A Primarch is obviously going to be better than a non-Primarch at commanding (With exceptions like Angron at Armageddon, who needed to focus his strategy on sacrifices to Khorne)

 

Anyway, we might get an early look at Calth if Rules of Engagement is about that. McNeill's been effectively confirmed as writing the Ultramarines over at Black Library Bolthole.

 

Hey I can hope, I can hope.

[tiberium40k]

Yeah, sorry, my bad for being unspecific. The current debate (such as it is, over email) is along the lines of how to introduce the daemons, to what degree, and on what scale. Like, are they hanging out in ships' holds, whining about Dreadclaw drop pod rules? Are they a result of the Word Bearers piledriving through the Ultramarines' orbital fleet, landing a squillion troops, and summoning them on the surface from their own guys? Are they the result of all that, and then summoning them from the sacrifice of Calth's populace? And so on.

 

There is an interesting piece of Roman culture that might fit in just perfectly; the devotio.

 

The devotio was an extreme form of votum (in a religious context, votum is a vow or promise made to a deity) in which a Roman general vowed to sacrifice his own life in battle along with the enemy to chthonic deities in exchange for a victory. The most extended description of the ritual is given by Livy, regarding the self-sacrifice of Decius Mus. This was also used before the Battle of Pharsalus, the decisive battle of Caesar`s civil war, where a Caesarian veteran Centurion gave his life and the lives of 120 legionaries in a suicide charge against Pompey for the divine gift of victory. It is an interesting piece of information since the Caesarians won the day. :o

 

One could incorporate this as the Word Bearers intentionally sacrificing a part of their assult force for the Daemons to come into the materium.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

tiberium40k confirmed for possessing Necron technology of resurrection. :sweat:

[tiberium40k]

tiberium40k confirmed for possessing Necron technology of resurrection. :lol:

 

:rolleyes: