Storm Raven uses for GK

[Seahawk]

So with it obviously being in the upcoming codex, what uses do you see? My ideas is that it is the land raider "light," as it still has the tank killing power (some would say more or less) and transport capacity, but it is much, much faster. However, the Grey Knights are not Blood Angels. They do not really assault, although they aren't slouches in that either.

 

What loadouts would suit the Grey Knight army best? I tend to think AT, for the same reasons as the current codex: the Knights can't really do it themselves. Lascannons and multimeltas then would be the obvious choice (with missiles). It can also help with some horde with a typhoon launcher, bolters, and assault cannons. Is that really advisable though? The stormbolters can take of infantry for the most part. Heavy infantry, on the other hand, would be well splatted by plasma cannons and typhoon launcher.

 

And then with that, how would the transport capacity best be utilized? Terminators? Strike Squads? Purgations? And how about those dreadnoughts. Should they still be geared for AT range (I think so), or would it be a neat new tactic to hot drop them into combats with the Knights?

 

If you go with minimal upgrades (and only the free weapon ones), would it be more survivable than hiding in land raiders? Jetting around each turn gives you free smoke launchers all game (except against Hydras), letting you drop a bucket of angry silver when and where you want. Point denial is fairly workable.

 

I'm not entirely sure yet, but I'm leaning towards AT work for my own, since I won't really have any land raiders.

[Vindicatus]

I could also see it as a last minute objective taker. Provided that it has a scoring unit in it (or that special character allowing certain other units to count as scoring is someplace in your list), I could imagine someone fast-blasting it to some corner of the table to park itself on an objective not claimed by either party yet for a tie or a win.

 

I also see it as a target denial opportunity. What I mean by that is that this thing is fully capable of completely facerolling any one armoured target, or a group of infantry, with the proper load out. The point is to make the enemy choose between taking potshots at one critical squad lingering in cover someplace, or to risk the wrath of having a SR sitting on the flank, quite possibly with troops/a dread attached.

 

Some might think of that scenario as a no-brainer, but it's a lot more complicated with all the new units we're getting, and other situations where leaving those troops alone might not be the wisest decision.

[Gentlemanloser]

Give it Scout, and fill it with a hard hitting CC squad and a Dreadnought.

 

They are beastly (I've played a few BA lists using 2 filled with Dreads and SG) and it's absolutley hard for your opponent to counter. Being a skimmer (and fast to boot) means you can deliver your troops to *exactly* where you need them to go.

 

Which is going to be a massive things for the new Dex, if we can't have (as rumoured) Drop Pods.

 

I'm currently planning to fill one with a Squad of Paladin (which will make use of the 2 for 1 transport capacity to the full) plus Apothecary, with a Venerable Dreadnought (if it won't be able to carry a DreadKnight), and giving it Scout for a first turn Assault.

 

As for Weapon load outs, I'll skip the Hurricane Bolters and take the TML over the HB or MM. Top Sponson will most liekly be Plasma Cannons.

 

If I only run 1 SR, I'm aiming to support it with a First turn DS from Mordrak, and possibly some Scouting Land Raiders (Filled with more Paladin! :cuss). I'd also like to squeeze in some SSGK for anti DS, but full builds really depend on the what the Codex is actually like. <_<

 

Edit: From running the BA ones, CC Dreads are awesome. Disembark a Sqaud of SG and a Furioso. The Furioso decimates one target with a Frag Cannon (ZOMG they are sick!), Melta-gun and Magna Grapple, and Assaults whatever's left (or whatever wa sinside the Transport...) while the SG pick thier squad to decimate in CC.

 

It's like having a flying circus of your own.

 

The SR aren't as durable as Falcons though, and if you don't get first turn lucky ML/LC shots can stop your charge. But 'Scout' will help lessen the impact of this (which the BA can't get) by allowing you to move flat out after deployment to pull back if you're going second, or reposition for the first turn assaul, and gain the 'Skimmer moves Fast' 4+ Save for the first turn.

 

Which can be massive.

[number6]

Assuming same loadout options as the BA rules currently have it, I think using a twin-linked multi-melta to be a virtual necessity. I doubt the GKs themselves will have learned much about melta guns themselves between the old codex and the new one, which means the vehicles are going to have to carry that load.

 

Since the carrying capacity is smallish, I like the idea of stuffing terminators inside of it. But who knows, if ISTs remain and/or there are other significantly-cheaper-than-GK scoring infantry options in the book, making the stormraven a scoring vehicle on the cheap (like IG often do with their valkyries) could have appeal as well. In which case, the TLLC might be preferable to TLMM....

 

I myself think that dragging a dreadnought in tow is too cool to pass up. The stormraven is useful without it, but I don't want to use it if I'm not also always taking a dread along, too! :) In which case, I actually think that a basic dread with MM is probably just fine. You won't need to upgrade any of its weaponry into long-range dakka like we're currently doing (unless you want a heavy flamer or, I would hope, incinerator). You should be getting close enough to use the MM pretty easily. (Of course, I would assume we might still use dreads as long-range firepower platforms, but I doubt that these dreads are the ones you'd want to take on a stormraven.)

 

I think adding on hurricane bolter sponsons would never be a bad thing to do. More dakka? Especially defensive dakka on a Fast vehicle? Yes, please! But much will depend on points costs for everything else in the 'dex. Yeah, the stormraven is cheaper than a LR, but not necessarily as resilient, and it's also not that much cheaper! :( Whether we will be able to afford to purchase many upgrades will depend on overall army list costs.

 

That said, I doubt that the usual principle for 40K -- keep it cheap and basic -- will ever be wrong. A basic 205 pt Stormraven is really good enough already and doesn't require upgrades.

[Seahawk]

I've begun to think the lascannon is not only necessary for Grey Knight armies, but it's also fantastic and rewarded for its use. Just like the new land raider, the Storm Raven has the PotMS. This fits in nicely with the "zoom around all game and deny points" idea...you even get to shoot after going 24"! That's really nice, coming from using Valkyries and such where you want to move to protect the cargo, but can't do anything afterwards.

[Gentlemanloser]

The stormraven is useful without it, but I don't want to use it if I'm not also always taking a dread along, too! In which case, I actually think that a basic dread with MM is probably just fine.

 

You could always use a GKGM to make the Dread Scoring. ;)

 

But I don't tihnk I'll be able to pass up having a Scout transport.

 

Maybe I'll have to run Mord + GKGM to get Pallies as troops, Scouting SRs and Scoring Dreads! :P

 

Edit: For wepaon load outs, don't forget the 4 one shot S8 bloodstrike (greystrike?) Missiles. That coupled with a TML was more ML spamm than I've ever needed! ;)

[Eddie Orlock]

You could always use a GKGM to make the Dread Scoring. :D

Is that one of the rumoured powers, to make vehicles scoring?

[Vindicatus]

Rather, one of the rumoured random d3 choices they can pick, to make them scoring, scouts, etc.

[HERO]

Does anyone else not like the Stormraven?

 

I'm not a fan of it in the slightest. I'd rather having a scoring AV14 LRC.. or AV14 to transport a group of termies across the battlefield.

 

AV14's true weakness is meltas. The Stormraven is immune to the extra D6 roll, but is still subject to S8 across the board. This means its subject to missile harassment, lascannons and S6 shot spam.

 

It's 200 points of flying paper whereas for ~50 pts more, you get a AV14 mule of a transport that can bring 8 Paladins in your opponent's face with Scout as well.

[Lvn-da-dream]

I may arm it with Lascannons and Typhoons. Both those options would allow me to keep it near the back of the zone and fire at targets of opportunity. All he can reach me with will be his heavy weapons. If he shoots at the raven he won't be shooting at my paladins marching to the objective. If he shoots at the GKs, the raven fires on two targets every turn.

 

If it's still alive at the end of the game, it can swoop in on an objective and use the Hurricaine bolters to scour some bad guys off an objective. That would just be a bonus.

[HERO]

I may arm it with Lascannons and Typhoons. Both those options would allow me to keep it near the back of the zone and fire at targets of opportunity. All he can reach me with will be his heavy weapons. If he shoots at the raven he won't be shooting at my paladins marching to the objective. If he shoots at the GKs, the raven fires on two targets every turn.

 

If it's still alive at the end of the game, it can swoop in on an objective and use the Hurricaine bolters to scour some bad guys off an objective. That would just be a bonus.

 

You speak as if you have more targets to saturate the field than he does.

 

We're playing the same, expensive, elite army right? Grey Knights will never have the advantage in targets.

 

Also, if you're sitting in the backfield shooting, you're nothing more than a AV12 lightbulb of shoot-me-here. You gotta play the SR aggressively or you might as well don't play it.

[jakehunter52]

I read an interesting article on this yesterday on BoLS and it was quite enlightening. It's purpose was to debunk a few misconceptions about the SR and to explore all of it's capabilities. One of my main concerns was it's survivability. A good point that was brought up was that the actually chance for it being destroyed by a standard str 8 weapon (when not moving flat out) was a mere 8%. This number is going to apply to most things since the SR is immune to Melta rule and (according to his meta-game) he does not see many lascannons or railguns in his competitive scene. Now, that is sure to alter a bit if that becomes the trend w/ GKs is to take a SR but regardless it is quite impressive. That gives me enough peace of mind to increase the points I invest into it and what role it can fill. Another point that the writer brought up is the SR's ability to fill both an AT role and Assault role. He gave the example of placing it in reserve, coming in on (hopefully) turn 3 or 4, using that turn to unload it's AT/missile payload into vehicles and then using the next turn to deliver to goods. At this point it becomes a distraction, soaking up fire and living beyond this point is simply frosting.

 

Now this was obviously for the BA SR but our's is...well, better and thus we have even more options. Assuming that we can get scout, it will allow us to conduct the alpha strike and delivering a payload simultaneously. This combined with Fortitude and Psychic Communion can make our SR much more permanent and potent force on the battlefield. With that in mind, I think that upgrading to TML and taking Hurricane bolters are totally worth it. As far as the turret, I think TLLC is the way to go, they have great view of fire, range, strength and give us what we need most. Storm Ravens are going to become a devastating hammer for us, delivering both a rain of fire but also a rain of bodies (an giving us a chance to use that nifty Might of Titan against vehicles' rears) that will wash away our opponents. Now, to pick the anvil....

[Lvn-da-dream]

HERO, you are absolutely correct about playing aggressively. Where we may differ is in the unit that we use aggressively. I prefer to use Terminators in that role with the raven used to swoop in at the correct opportunity. LCs are a threat to the raven, but if they shoot it they ignore a real threat closing in.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I plan on using a Stormraven with lascannons, typhoon missiles, and hurricane bolters, transporting a unit of termies with a lascannon/missile launcher dread :rolleyes: It can drop off the termies and dread as a 'flanking' assault element (I plan on having some teleporting units too) and then zoom around at speed (depending on tables and terrain) either utilizing the typhoons as anti-infantry with the hurricane bolters, or pairing them with the lascannon for ranged anti-armor fire.

 

Using the Stormraven to keep the termies and dread together, then perhaps a dreadknight paired with a teleporting squad of some type (perhaps the rumored strike squad?) gives me two elements that essentially show up where I want them to drive the opponent bonkers. The Stormraven then becomes a fire support element after dropping off it's cargo where it's needed.

 

In theory anyway :)

[Gentlemanloser]

We're playing the same, expensive, elite army right? Grey Knights will never have the advantage in targets.

 

We now have access to the cheapest (and potentially Scoring) Terminators of any Loyalist army.

 

Pre upgrades, the 'Ghost Termies' rock in at 32 points, 1 point cheaper than the current kings, the Wolfguard. While the definiate kings of the hill are the Paladin. While not truely 2-4-1, as you don't get double the attacks (unlike the TWC in CC), Paladin give use almost twice the Terminator for thier cost, making them a modest 27.5 points each (if we halve thier cost for ease of comparison).

 

Now this was obviously for the BA SR but our's is...well, better and thus we have even more options. Assuming that we can get scout, it will allow us to conduct the alpha strike and delivering a payload simultaneously. This combined with Fortitude and Psychic Communion can make our SR much more permanent and potent force on the battlefield. With that in mind, I think that upgrading to TML and taking Hurricane bolters are totally worth it. As far as the turret, I think TLLC is the way to go, they have great view of fire, range, strength and give us what we need most. Storm Ravens are going to become a devastating hammer for us, delivering both a rain of fire but also a rain of bodies (an giving us a chance to use that nifty Might of Titan against vehicles' rears) that will wash away our opponents. Now, to pick the anvil....

 

This. :D

 

We should also condsider the benefits of placing a non anvil squad inside, to get access to another nifty Psychic power you can place wherever you want, and measure it from the Hull of the SR. You also have the option to leave the 'anvil' as the Dread, but as mentioned above, I think the anvil unit of choice will be a Paladin+Apothecary squad.

 

Imagine your opponent knowing that no matter what, if you get first turn you will be unleashing a Squad + Dread on them, nearly anywhere you want. That's a massive psycological advantage there. And if they reserve everything, you can hold the SR back at range, and snipe away with its mass of weapon option, and still have a last turn flat-out objective contesting capability (although that might go to Personal Teleporter SSGK/Dreadknights with saving the 30" move for the last turn).

[Aeddon]

We now have access to the cheapest (and potentially Scoring) Terminators of any Loyalist army.

Probably a bit to early to call that yet, I'm waiting on the codex to be in my hands. I'm pretty sure that we're gonna end up paying for the nicer things that we all hope for, not to mention the unique character you'll need to get scouting or whatever else.

 

 

Back to the Stormraven,

Pretty psyched about these in my GK army. It's really tempting to run three, fill them full of win and hit "go". I think that initially the best anvil unit will be the DK, just because people will have to learn the best way to deal with it. After the dust settles we'll probably see the return of the landraider though. Just my opinions.

[Gentlemanloser]

Probably a bit to early to call that yet, I'm waiting on the codex to be in my hands. I'm pretty sure that we're gonna end up paying for the nicer things that we all hope for, not to mention the unique character you'll need to get scouting or whatever else.

 

Of course. But we're cheaper, with more 'basic' stuff. Even if you only count the base Psychic Power and Frags (AWESOME!).

 

If we can pay for nicer things, just like everyone else (like 5 points for a combi-weapon on SWT, and we get Psycannon bolt ammo for X), so much the better! :P

[Seahawk]

8 Paladins in your opponent's face with Scout as well.

That's only if you use a Crusader, which hasn't ever seemed to work in Grey Knight armies, as far as I've ever seen.

 

As for the GM giving Scouts, a little bird tells me they can only give the abilities to infantry/jump, MC's, and walkers. That means no outflanking/scouting storm ravens or land raiders since they are not dedicated transports.

 

The same little bird says the other ability about Troops makes it so the unit "can score as if it were Troops," which doesn't disregard the fact that dreadnoughts are vehicles, which still makes it not scoring.

 

So, a couple downers for thems out there.

 

That being the case, since the storm raven can't make scout moves, would it be wise to deploy it at all when going second?

[HERO]

Probably a bit to early to call that yet, I'm waiting on the codex to be in my hands. I'm pretty sure that we're gonna end up paying for the nicer things that we all hope for, not to mention the unique character you'll need to get scouting or whatever else.

 

Of course. But we're cheaper, with more 'basic' stuff. Even if you only count the base Psychic Power and Frags (AWESOME!).

 

If we can pay for nicer things, just like everyone else (like 5 points for a combi-weapon on SWT, and we get Psycannon bolt ammo for X), so much the better! ;)

 

I'm going to be a downer and say that I liked my 25ppm WS5 S6 True Grit Fearless basic Grey Knight better than the current ones. WS4, S4 1A and Ld.8/9 with Justicar? :P

[Gentlemanloser]

The current PAGK suck.

 

Well not so much them, but the 50 point Justicar you have to include.

 

Fearless is absolutely worse than ATSKNF, so I'm loving losing it.

 

So, a couple downers for thems out there.

 

/sadpanda ^_^

[Grimm Blade]

I have a question.... The BAs can jump out of SRs that move their max speed as long as they have jump packs on.... Can GKs with personal teleporters also "jump" out after a SRs full movement? If so that would be a SERIOUS first turn movement considering the teleporters are rumored to give a 30" movement once per game.

Does anyone have an answer for this?

[Seahawk]

Just because they can "teleport," doesn't mean they get to break the rules. When disembarking from a speeder like this (written the same as Valkyries and BA storm ravens), they are still forced to drop somewhere along the skimmer's route. Since the "teleport" is actually just a "moves as jump infantry" move, it doesn't bypass anything.

[Gentlemanloser]

Can GKs with personal teleporters also "jump" out after a SRs full movement?

 

It's rumoured we have an ability like 'skies of blood' for our Personal Teleporter troops. Called Darken Skies or something like like.

[Aeddon]

I have a question.... The BAs can jump out of SRs that move their max speed as long as they have jump packs on.... Can GKs with personal teleporters also "jump" out after a SRs full movement? If so that would be a SERIOUS first turn movement considering the teleporters are rumored to give a 30" movement once per game.

Does anyone have an answer for this?

Actually the jumppack only helps them make a more controlled landing via the DoA rule. Normal infantry can do the "deepstrike" disembarkment too it's just more risky. Given that, I'd say that it's more than likely that regular GK will be able to disembark even when the SR moves flat out but no they probably cannot use their teleport. But hey, I haven't seen the codex yet so it's all just speculation for now.

[Grimm Blade]

Just because they can "teleport," doesn't mean they get to break the rules. When disembarking from a speeder like this (written the same as Valkyries and BA storm ravens), they are still forced to drop somewhere along the skimmer's route. Since the "teleport" is actually just a "moves as jump infantry" move, it doesn't bypass anything.

 

I didn't know if there were any rules in regards to teleprting out of a speeder considering the GK codex isn't out yet ;) ............that's why I asked the question :P

 

I guess I made the same mistake I always seem to in regards to 40k, and that it to try and think logically about it :P

 

I was thinking that if a model could teleport up to 30" once per game (or from orbit to the planet's surface ), why it would choose to use that move to line up behind a speeding SR........

 

It also seemed strange that the same risks would be involved for a BA hurling itself from the back of a speeding SR with a jump pack on as for a teleporting GK :P .............

 

But as I stated earlier........ My bad, I can see why it makes sense in terms of the game, just not so much on every other level :lol: