Storm Raven uses for GK

[Eddie Orlock]

I guess I made the same mistake I always seem to in regards to 40k, and that it to try and think logically about it :P

Well, if that's the direction you want to go with it, from a narative perspective, what's to say that teleportation has an impact on the momentum of the object? The knights go from to standing still in a reference frame speeding along the surface of the planet, so from the frame of the planet they're speeding along to presumably standing still on the planet. Unless they have some superlative skills in checking this momentum I'd dare say they're going for a tumble.

[Grimm Blade]

I guess I made the same mistake I always seem to in regards to 40k, and that it to try and think logically about it

Well, if that's the direction you want to go with it, from a narative perspective, what's to say that teleportation has an impact on the momentum of the object? The knights go from to standing still in a reference frame speeding along the surface of the planet, so from the frame of the planet they're speeding along to presumably standing still on the planet. Unless they have some superlative skills in checking this momentum I'd dare say they're going for a tumble.

 

What about when a marine is teleported from ship to ship in a boarding action, or from the surface of a planet to a moving ship?........

Theoretically you are split into molecules and rebuilt somewhere else, which removes any chance of "a tumble".

 

I think that if a machine can reduce someone to their molecular components and reassemble them at another location, that they would indeed possess "superlative skills" enough to stop you from rolling or stumbling. They can do it on Star Trek so why not in 40K!? :lol:

 

All of this is speculation and hypothesis, and that is not what i intended to discuss with my original question. I just wanted to know if a GK could teleport out of a speeding SR. debating this further is pointless. I will wait until the codex comes out and read the answer for myself.

[Eddie Orlock]

What about when a marine is teleported from ship to ship in a boarding action, or from the surface of a planet to a moving ship?........

Theoretically you are split into molecules and rebuilt somewhere else, which removes any chance of "a tumble".

See, this here gets into one of the finer points of the fluff. Imperial Teleportation technology isn't the quasi hard sci-fi tech of molecular transmission and reassembly, but rather controlled, short ranged, warp jumps. Objects in the teleportarium are surrounded in something akin to a static gellar field with a decently long decay life and a directed, shallow warp transition is effected with the natural result of the unit popping back out near the intended destination. It explains why deviation is only ever present coplanar with the surface of the planet, as the planet has a shadow in the warp, as all things do, and this shadow blocks the gellar bubble and shunts it into realspace. Personal teleporters are similar with the energy limitation on the duration of the gellar bubble limiting them to shorter jumps. Full scale teleportariums will be tied into advanced cogitators with sophisticated machine spirits and will be able to adjust the trajectories of account for relative motion with respect to the target. :D

[Grimm Blade]

What about when a marine is teleported from ship to ship in a boarding action, or from the surface of a planet to a moving ship?........

Theoretically you are split into molecules and rebuilt somewhere else, which removes any chance of "a tumble".

See, this here gets into one of the finer points of the fluff. Imperial Teleportation technology isn't the quasi hard sci-fi tech of molecular transmission and reassembly, but rather controlled, short ranged, warp jumps. Objects in the teleportarium are surrounded in something akin to a static gellar field with a decently long decay life and a directed, shallow warp transition is effected with the natural result of the unit popping back out near the intended destination. It explains why deviation is only ever present coplanar with the surface of the planet, as the planet has a shadow in the warp, as all things do, and this shadow blocks the gellar bubble and shunts it into realspace. Personal teleporters are similar with the energy limitation on the duration of the gellar bubble limiting them to shorter jumps. Full scale teleportariums will be tied into advanced cogitators with sophisticated machine spirits and will be able to adjust the trajectories of account for relative motion with respect to the target. ;)

 

YEAH!!!!!!! What he said! LOL ;)

[Valerian]

Luckily, I already have 2 Forgeworld Dreadnoughts, 2 Grey Knight Terminator squads, and 2 Characters (I'm planning on them being a Grand Master and a Librarian, at this point). I think I'll just try to go the simple route, and get myself 2 Stormravens and make 2 mobile teams for the "main effort" of my army. These will be backed up by my 4x Grey Knight Strike Squads, which some or all will get upgraded with personal teleporters.

 

Alternately, I might just stick a Strike Squad and Dreadnought in each Stormraven, and just Teleport in the Terminators, when they get in position. I can definitely see this as being a way to quickly "flood and drown" certain adversaries. Against armies that I might not necessarily want to wade in and assault right away, I can just deploy the Grey Knights and Dreadnoughts, and use the Stormravens as support aircraft, that make lateral movements in the backfield for survivability, when necessary.

 

As far as Stormraven options, I think I'll go with the twin-linked Multi-melta, twin-linked assault cannon. I won't bother with hurricane bolters, but might add locator beacons, depending on Teleport options within the army list.

 

One thing that I'm not sure on is whether we'll be able to make give them the ability to Scout. I think it isn't possible, with the rumors so far, but if it is, that'll be pretty overpowered. Either way, I've been looking for a vehicle like the 'Raven for Marines for over two decades, and am really looking forward to adding a couple of them to my Knights.

 

Valerian

[Marmande]

Fill it with 12 Death-Cult Assassins 48 WS5 S4 I6 attacks on the charge.

[glsn]

^^This saddens/scares me.

 

I plan on using my Storm Ravens with Typhoon, Assault Cannons and Hurricane Bolters. I play mine aggressively and I've found when you have two of them going it works wonders. Turbo-boost one for the save and use PotMS to shoot something. Have the second move behind the first for the cover save and fire at two other things. Once I've blown the opponents vehicles up I can do strafing runs with the Hurricane Bolters. Using Blood Angels, Shield of Sanguinius is awesome.

[SamaNagol]

Storm Ravens are entirely built for getting very hard hitting assault troops where they need to be without having to whether any fire and ensure they get the charge.

 

The longer they spend on the table with units embarked, the worse they perform.

 

I cannot see any logical reason why the DreadKnight would not be able to be transported by the Raven in this Dex, which opens it up to a different dimension of play. When coupled with possibly scoring Terminators, it can be a very very powerful tool.

 

However it is adding a huge cost to a list which is already very expensive, and it also pushes you towards playing an aggressive close combat style, which we are yet to discover whether that is the true strength of the Grey Knights.

 

From the rumours I have seen, holding one Raven in reserve with an CC spec DreadKnight and a scoring unit of Terminators would be the best use, and hopefully draw the enemy across the table close enough to be within range of a 22" inch charge from your table edge. But then you would need the mobile mid ranged firepower to back that up, and Grey Knights in general should have that.

[Inquisitor Fox]

The other thought is a Storm Raven with Termies, a long range dread (to provide heavy weapons support for our troops on the move after deployed along with the SR itself), then a teleport homer. This allows you to call in deep striking reserves with great accuracy. That or letting you do pinpoint deep strikes with teleported troops if there's some sort of rule similar to the jump pack Blood Angels version :RTBBB: I'm forseeing a decent amount of pinpoint teleporting being incredibly useful!

[Gentlemanloser]

The longer they spend on the table with units embarked, the worse they perform.

 

There is one use for a SR with an embarked unit.

 

Fill it with the smallest, cheapest, Scoring unit you can. This gives you a tasty last turn fast skimmer to claim objectives with.

 

The blasted Eldar have been pulling that stun on me for years... :'(

[Ekgar_Wolf]

Luckily, I already have 2 Forgeworld Dreadnoughts, 2 Grey Knight Terminator squads, and 2 Characters (I'm planning on them being a Grand Master and a Librarian, at this point). I think I'll just try to go the simple route, and get myself 2 Stormravens and make 2 mobile teams for the "main effort" of my army. These will be backed up by my 4x Grey Knight Strike Squads, which some or all will get upgraded with personal teleporters.

 

If you take 2 SR you only have 1 FA slot free...so only 1 Grey Knight SS upgraded there.

 

I cannot see any logical reason why the DreadKnight would not be able to be transported by the Raven in this Dex, which opens it up to a different dimension of play. When coupled with possibly scoring Terminators, it can be a very very powerful tool.

 

Perhaps the fact that the DreadKnight is way taller than a Land Raider.... :D He should stay in fetal position and thats not cool on a Veteran Elite Champion of the finest SM... :tu:

[Seahawk]

From what I've been able to get my hands on, Dreadknights are not carriable and SS squads with the teleport upgrade are still Troops choices, so there's no overlap worries.

 

How would the "water warrior" idea apply to the storm ravens? It obviously applies to the land raider well, so is that transferable you think?

[Inquisitor Fox]

I don't see why not. The essence of reactive warfare is utilizing various forms of mobility to be strong where/when the opponent is weak, and be weak when/where the opponent is strong. I find it also similar to Deutsche Fechtschule, the German school of fencing, on a philosophical level.

 

As a quote from Wikipedia:

 

At the centre of the art lies emphasis on swiftness, as well as balance and good judgement:

 

(fol. 20r) vor noch swach stark Indes / an den selben woertern leit alle kunst / meister lichtnawers / Und sint dy gruntfeste und der / kern alles fechtens czu fusse ader czu rosse / blos ader in harnuesche

 

"'Before', 'after', 'weak', 'strong', Indes ('meanwhile'), on these five words hinges the entire art of master Lichtenauer, and they are the foundation and the core of all combat, on foot or on horseback, unarmoured or armoured."

 

The terms 'before' (vor) and 'after' (nach) correspond to offensive and defensive actions. While in the vor, one dictates his opponent's actions and thus is in control of the engagement, while in the nach, one responds to the decisions made by his opponent. Under Liechtenauer's system, a combatant must always strive to be in control of the engagement—that is, in the vor. 'Strong' (stark) and 'weak' (swach) relate to the amount of force that is applied in a bind of the swords. Here, neither is better than the other, but one needs to counter the opponent's action with a complementary reaction; strength is countered with weakness, and weakness with strength. Indes means "meanwhile" or "interim", referring to the time it takes for the opponent to complete an action. At the instant of contact with the opponent's blade, an experienced fencer uses 'feeling' (fühlen) to immediately sense his opponent's pressure in order to know whether he should be "weak or "strong" against him. He then either attacks using the "vor" or remains in the bind until his opponent acts, depending on what he feels is right. When his opponent starts to act, the fencer acts "indes" (meanwhile) and regains the "vor" before the opponent can finish his action.

 

A Storm Raven is faster and more maneuverable than a Land Raider, but less defensively armored. The principles of the Water Warrior style however are not about stats, but about learning the feel of an engagement and responding to your opponent as appropriate. In this sense, any unit can be used with that mentality.

[Zebub]

I had a thought...

 

It seems that The Shrouding will be reappear in the new codex as a psychic power that conveys the Stealth USR to all units within 6".

I see nothing in the wording of the Stealth USR that would prevent vehicles from benefiting from this.

Could this possibly mean that vehicles could get 5+ cover in the open and 3+ cover when moving flat out!?

 

Am I missing something?

[Valerian]

I had a thought...

 

It seems that The Shrouding will be reappear in the new codex as a psychic power that conveys the Stealth USR to all units within 6".

I see nothing in the wording of the Stealth USR that would prevent vehicles from benefiting from this.

Could this possibly mean that vehicles could get 5+ cover in the open and 3+ cover when moving flat out!?

 

Am I missing something?

 

Vehicles are units, so yeah, nothing in the RAW of the rulebook or Shrouding description to prevent this. Might get FAQed away though, but until then, have at it.

 

V

[Seahawk]

Stealth doesn't provide a cover save; it only adds to one. So, when going flat out you'd get a 3+, but otherwise nothing.

[Valerian]

Stealth doesn't provide a cover save; it only adds to one. So, when going flat out you'd get a 3+, but otherwise nothing.

 

Stealth doesn't provide a Cover save, but The Shrouding does (a 6+, even in the open), which combined with Stealth gives every unit within 6" (including vehicles) a 5+.

 

V

[Seahawk]

Ah, then yea!

[SamaNagol]

Wow, Storm*Shield*Ravens!

[RedemptionNL]

I cannot see any logical reason why the DreadKnight would not be able to be transported by the Raven in this Dex, which opens it up to a different dimension of play. When coupled with possibly scoring Terminators, it can be a very very powerful tool.

Perhaps the fact that the DreadKnight is way taller than a Land Raider.... :D He should stay in fetal position and thats not cool on a Veteran Elite Champion of the finest SM... :)

 

The mental image of a Dreadknight dragging its feet over the ground, trying to keep up by running, as it's being 'carried' by the Stormraven gave me a chuckle. :)

 

Also, I'm not sure how much the exposed Dreadknight pilot would appreciate atmospheric re-entry while being strapped to a Stormraven.

[Dilgar]

There might not be an option for Incinerators in the dreadnoughts weapon options? Only heavy flamer?...Only something called psyflame ammunition, maybe? :)

 

And GKSS might work just as regular jump infantry, no scatter and can always teleport along the line where the SR has flown over, dunno just something I´ve heard...

[Gentlemanloser]

Yes.

 

And Shadow Skies. :)

[Zhukov]

Assuming the current rumors are 99% correct (so will be the final version too):

 

I'm going to use one as a personal transport for Castelan Crowe. He's not an IC so either he has to hijack a transport from some other unit or take a Land Raider/Raven. Why the Raven? Well because of it's versatality. I can either keep it in reserves or start on the board; I can use it as a counterassault unit (Crowe is the ultimate 1 man suicide unit, killing almost anything on the charge by...dying ^^) and/or gunship this way. It just fits perfectly in the build i'm having in mind (2 Dreadknights, 5 squads of Purifiers in rhinos, Crowe + Raven).

 

Overall though I'm afraid it's not a good unit, same as in the BA dex: AV 12. That's all there is really, apart form this fact it's pretty amazing but you can't deny that Av12 is relatively easy to destroy.

 

8% for 1 Missile Launcher? Those are huge odds as armies got heaps of these and Autocannons kill it too with even better odds overall (assuming a flat-out Raven). This 200+ point 'transport' will get shot down and sometimes really early. The 'that fire doesn't go to other units' argument doesn't apply here as it's way too expensive to justify it dying to some S7/8 fire. Not to mention the cargo depends on it too.

 

Overall the uses will be the same as in the BA dex as it's still the same vehicle.