Fighting Tau

[MalachiOfRuss]

I've been having trouble with Tau lately and I wanted to get your guys' opinion. The times I have been able to close into close range, I've done well (obviously). However, I seem to consistently have trouble actually getting that close. Rhinos are easy prey to the Railguns on Hammerheads and Broadside battlesuits. Even the Land Raider doesn't stay in very long against the rail guns (and he uses Marker Lights to even negate Smoke Launchers). How does everyone else deal with Tau from a Wolfy perspective?

 

BTW We play with Apocalypse assets, so he always takes the Disruptor Beacon (or a formation which gives him the equivalent) so even Drop Poding in is problematic as there is a 50% chance the unit won't arrive where I want it to.

[Brother Nathan]

scouts? actually have you tried a mix of different approaches at the same time? ie today i not only drove my razorback straight at my opponents, btoutflanked baals(which i know ou cant but you get the point) poded a dread in, deepstruck 2 assault squads, etc. opponent being surrounded and stuck was quickly dismembered... Surely using a mixture of pods, scouts, thunderwolves or whatever you can get close enough with at least one to be able to get stuck in. also you reallly shouldnt be able to go wrong with a longfang squad...

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I've been having trouble with Tau lately and I wanted to get your guys' opinion. The times I have been able to close into close range, I've done well (obviously). However, I seem to consistently have trouble actually getting that close. Rhinos are easy prey to the Railguns on Hammerheads and Broadside battlesuits. Even the Land Raider doesn't stay in very long against the rail guns (and he uses Marker Lights to even negate Smoke Launchers). How does everyone else deal with Tau from a Wolfy perspective?

 

BTW We play with Apocalypse assets, so he always takes the Disruptor Beacon (or a formation which gives him the equivalent) so even Drop Poding in is problematic as there is a 50% chance the unit won't arrive where I want it to.

 

Don't fight the Tau?!

We are your friends and wish to share with you a glorious future free of techno-superstition and needless genocide.

Tau'va

 

Tau are very good in small games. Try playing at 1500 pts as all the armies seem to even out at that level. Play at more points and the 5th ed. dexes generally have it easier.

 

Perhaps you should try playing a game or two without the assets and see how you go? They are not very balanced imo.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

@Willy: always knew you were a heretic.

 

@MoR: I find scouts work well against Tau, along with Lascannon armed Long Fangs. the low numbers of the long fans works against us, but if you get the first turn to fire the spilt fire can pick off the big tanks or broadside suits. S9 against t4 means a dead suit, if you can get through their shields. other than that, bodies and lots of them. We Wolves can spam ALOT of bodes if we need to, and nothing runs through Tau quicker than 6 squads of 15 Blood Claws. they have the numbers to take the damage coming in amd if they run every turn, your opponent wont have enough turns to do significant damage to them. Especially is you out a Wolf Priest with the Saga of the Hunter. (+1 to Cover saves)

 

also, on the disruption beacon, there isnt many answers for that. I find it to be one of the more...fun killing Apoc options.

but, going against it i have learned a few tricks to dealing with it: (1) Dropping podding a V-Grenade next to it. the V-Grenade removes everything from play. EVERYTHING. or (2) The Disruption beacon is a Front Line Asset, meaning it HAS to have a model representing it. The model is a immobile vehicle with a armor value of 13. Any glance or penetrating hit destroys it. So either get close and personal with a chain fist or just long range shoot the damn thing.

 

WLK

[DV8]

For one, don't play with Apocalypse Assets. They aren't the most balanced things ever, and using them in a "regular" game of 40k, at those small point values, simply becomes an exercise in futility. If you do choose to play with assets though, consider Strategic Redeployment, and/or Flank March.

 

Secondly, there are numerous ways to deal with the Tau, and you've already touched on one of them: getting up close and personal. However, be warned that Crisis Suit and Broadside teams can be remarkably resilient, with a good number of wounds, T4, and a 3+ (or 2+ in the case of Broadsides) save. Power Fists and Thunder Hammers will help you chew through the units quickly without being bogged down, otherwise he'll tie you up with a sacrificial unit while the rest of the army simply boy-scout moves out of the way, forcing you to win a combat, then move/run for another turn or two taking fire before you hit the next combat.

 

Tau have some strong anti-armor firepower, so infantry will be more resilient (particularly Long Fangs), allowing you to continuously put out firepower even while taking hits/casualties. Rhinos boosted up 12" will at least get you that much closer to the enemy, although don't expect them to live long. Try and maneouver your Rhinos so that when they are destroyed, your infantry can start to box the Tau in so that they have nowhere to jump away to.

 

Wolf Scouts are also a FANTASTIC way to deal with Fire Warrior/Sniper Teams/Broadside Teams/Hammerheads that are hiding in the flanks. Depending on your point value a squad or two equipped with Meltaguns, led by Combi-Melta/Power Fist Wolf Guard could be just what the doctor ordered.

 

If you have Rune Priests, another power to consider is Tempest's Wrath and/or Murderous Hurricane. Forcing Dangerous Terrain tests on his Crisis Suits could help put wounds on them to thin them out.

 

EDIT: With regard to Kieran's comment above, yes Long Fangs with Missiles and/or Lascannons are a great way to knock out suits, but be warned, Broadside Suits with Shield Drones in cover are DAMNED resilient to shift. T4 with a 2+/4+ are damned near impossible to kill in time before their firepower is felt, especially because they can put wound-allocation shenanigans with Shield Drones and differently equipped suits. If you have to choose between Broadsides, Vehicles, and Crisis suits, take out the Vehicles and Crisis Suits first, as they are mobile firepower (and far easier to kill) and put out far greater firepower against both armor and infantry. Broadsides generally have to remain stationary to fire their weaponry, and most of their firepower is geared to killing armor. Against infantry they aren't as strong and so aren't as potent a threat once your vehicles are dead.

 

 

DV8

[Sigmund Hammerhand]

You need to give him something to worry about early in the game, so that he can't pick his targets and instead has to fire on what poses the biggest threat. That is why I almost always use 10 bikers in my list with 2 meltas and combimelta in each squad, along with a wolfguard that has meltabombs. Deploy them in cover at all times (even if you think you're going first) so they get a save, although against Tau cover isn't all that essential in first turn as they have no long-range low AP weaponry.

 

Then turbo boost out in his face in your first turn. Works a treat. I generally have a Wolf lord on bike and/or a wolf priest with them to soak up extra wounds (Wolf lord can take a melta to the face and laugh at you) so that at least the meltas and the meltabombs get in close and personal and start blowing stuff up.

 

One way or another, after a game or two (if not straight away) he'll recognise them as an enormous threat, and focus most long range weaponry on them, which of course is fantastic because they won't die (mine have taken battle cannon shells and emerged unscratched, only to blow up the offending leman russ straight after). You'll find that your rhinos will be able to close in almost unmolested.

 

A land raider, in any scenario, is not the best choice if you ask me. If anything, you'll need 2 of the buggers and that gets enormously expensive enormously quickly. I used to field a land raider, and it never survived (I have now traded it - not just swapped, traded, I don't have it any more :D - for a rhino which is, in fact, more survivable than that damn land raider...).

 

I also second that the apocalypse assets aren't a good idea to use in standard games. If you plan on ever going to tourneys and so forth, you have to play the game as it is played in tournaments. And as has been said before, anything to do with apocalypse isn't entirely balanced and also more powerful against some armies than others.

 

Wolf scouts are also your friend. I always use 2 squads, (almost) guaranteeing me one to rock up exactly when and where they are needed.

 

With my list in general, I've found that I can pretty much ignore high strength one-shot weapons altogether, and that makes it a tremendously hard list to play against for Tau. My friend reckons that in fact he's got just about nothing he can do against the list and has to rely on tactical mistakes on my part to exploit (I do make plenty of those still, and every time I do, he teaches me a painful lesson) but every now and then I make no mistakes, and just wipe him off the board.

[Ladislao]

or simple, use rapid redeployment strategic asset, so you will suffer only 1 turn of fire, and then charge

[MalachiOfRuss]

or simple, use rapid redeployment strategic asset, so you will suffer only 1 turn of fire, and then charge

So simple.... I had always discounted Strategic Redeployment because you can't shoot or assault that turn (you just have to sit there). But now that I think of it, the units I would want to redeploy wouldn't be shooting or assaulting that first turn anyway, and I believe I can still pop smoke on my Rhinos the turn they redeploy, so at least he'll use the Markerlights to reduce cover rather than up the BS. Then, I just hope for not-awesome rolling, and hopefully I don't get pinned and I should be good.

 

Also, I noticed that I can take the Damocles Rhino from IA and that will give me the Orbital Bombardment asset as well. If I'm lucky (33%) I'll get to use it first turn and hopefully take out some of those bigger guns. Couple that with a Whirlwind and Sniper Scouts to try to pin his units (like the Broadsides), and I think I'll have a chance. Thanks, you've given me something to think about!

[Roland Durendal]

Wolf Scouts to threaten his back field, Long Fangs with MLs to threaten his vehicles and suppress their movement, and TWC with Thunderhammers to close the gap and smash anything in their way

 

I mean TWC have an assault range of 19-24". Try and stay away from them.

[MalachiOfRuss]

Wolf Scouts to threaten his back field, Long Fangs with MLs to threaten his vehicles and suppress their movement, and TWC with Thunderhammers to close the gap and smash anything in their way

 

I mean TWC have an assault range of 19-24". Try and stay away from them.

Yup, they are already part of my list. I've given them SS because that gives me a 3+ that can't be taken away with Markerlights. I'm thinking a combination of Rhinos, Drop Pods, and TWC (and possibly Bikes if I can squeeze them in) all threatening from multiple vectors should do the trick.

[Loki-LaughingDeath]

With a grin and a stick!

 

I love Tau in CC, it's like clubbing baby seals, only tau are neither cute nor fluffy or protected by the Maritime Mammal Act..... so it's perfectly legal and the Sierra Club ASPCA nuts won't come looking for you!

 

Best thing that has worked for me, weather the fire, get in close and let the fun begin! Scouts are great for Hammerheads, but against the Broadsides and Crisis suits they are going to be there to tie them down. I think that this might be an appropriate time for Thunder Cavalry to make an appearance or barring that Swift claws. Get stuck in tie up their shooters try not to wipe them out on the first go so that way one unit is tied up in CC during their turn of shooting then finish them off so that on your turn you can repeat the process with another unit.

[Stormshrug]

I've been having trouble with Tau lately and I wanted to get your guys' opinion. The times I have been able to close into close range, I've done well (obviously). However, I seem to consistently have trouble actually getting that close. Rhinos are easy prey to the Railguns on Hammerheads and Broadside battlesuits. Even the Land Raider doesn't stay in very long against the rail guns (and he uses Marker Lights to even negate Smoke Launchers). How does everyone else deal with Tau from a Wolfy perspective?

 

BTW We play with Apocalypse assets, so he always takes the Disruptor Beacon (or a formation which gives him the equivalent) so even Drop Poding in is problematic as there is a 50% chance the unit won't arrive where I want it to.

 

In my experience, podding is suicide against Tau anyway - you land in double-tap range and then get annihilated by massed fire before you can charge, and then on top of that, they get a free KP for each pod they pop (which they're very good at, as you've noted). Don't bring Drop Pods to a Rail Cannon fight.

 

Tau also make short work of all vehicles. That's just a fact of life - you can't rely on tanks, dreadnoughts, or even super-heavies to do much against massed Tau fire, although Rhinos are still relatively worthwhile just because they provide a cheap shield for your units. Better they have to waste the turn firing on the Rhino than on the troops inside, even if the Rhino is pretty much doomed. Don't field any vehicles that you can't afford to lose on turn 1 against Tau (or use Flank March to hide them, see below).

 

Outflanking is going to be your best friend in this matchup. My advice: since you have Apocalypse assets, give Flank March to a mobile and overpowering close-combat squad like a kitted up Thunderwolf Cavalry pack with an attached Wolf Lord, a Land Raider Crusader with a Wolf Priest and fifteen Blood Claws (or a bunch of WG terminators), or even a Logan's Heroes squad in an LRC. Then grab a pack of CC Wolf Scout packs or two (x2 Power Weapon per pack is pretty valuable, since Tau may suck in CC but they still have a decent save, and can tarpit you for a while if you don't have a PW to cut them down reliably). Advance the main body of your force cautiously in Rhinos (as you've noted, you won't be getting cover saves, so use LoS to the best of your ability) while you wait for your reinforcements to arrive, and then when they do, rout the blue communist fish-goats.

 

Now, this is a slightly cheesy strategy, and it is counterable through some even cheesier strategies (like using Kroot to completely surround the board edge, preventing Outflank from working, which is among dumbest "glitches" that work according to RAW). The 'lite' version of this strategy would just be to field a pack or two of close-combat Wolf Scouts, and then use terrain to shield your main forces until they arrive and you can rush forward. Remember to use close combat to screen their shots, and remember to read up on and use the double-assault rules to your utmost advantage whenever possible (they're kind of tricky, though - be sure that you're applying them properly). Trapping one squad in CC probably means they'll be able to shoot you on their turn - trapping two squads in CC gives you a good chance of having combat end right before your turn begins, and letting your guys live to charge another unit.

 

Tau is not a very balanced army at the moment - basically, they either rout or get routed, and there's little middle ground. It's also not a very strategically interesting match for us Space Wolves, since the best strategy is usually to play as a purely assaulty army (unless your build is Long Fang spam). Hopefully their next codex will make them slightly more well-rounded (still shooty, of course, but less of an "all or nothing" army in terms of winning or losing), but it's unlikely they'll be seeing a 'dex for a while.

 

-Stormshrug

[Marshal Wilhelm]

@Willy: always knew you were a heretic.

 

There is room for barbarians and mutants amongst the Greater Good. We don't judge such things :P

 

Link: Last 'Tau question' thread.

[Emperors Immortals]

With BA i just drop my death co anywhere even remotly close by and let em go.

 

So - maybe tie them up in CC with your jumpers?

 

Bikers are damn good too if you have any.

[LPetersson]

First of all, don't fight us, join us and let us usher in a new era of peace for the galaxy and all the races in the name of The Greater Good...

 

First of all, APOCALYPSE assets are called that for a reason. They are for apocalypse games. drop them for normal games.

 

Any way, yes, scouts are good if you can get them into assault on the turn they come on, otherwise they'll probably die.

 

As a Tau player (As well as long time SW player) I would say that the three most effective tactics against Tau would be:

1) Foot slogging Blood Claws, lots of them. The Tau player simply can't kill them all.

2) Rhino rush with Grey Hunters6 of those, and at least some of them will get there

3) Drop pod army. Place your pods where you want and see him fold...

 

As a Tau player, #3 is my worst nightmare and I really don't know how I would counter it if someoen ever used it on me...

[Marshal Wilhelm]

First of all, don't fight us, join us and let us usher in a new era of peace for the galaxy and all the races in the name of The Greater Good...

3) Drop pod army. Place your pods where you want and see him fold...

 

As a Tau player, #3 is my worst nightmare and I really don't know how I would counter it if someoen ever used it on me...

 

That's the spirit! Tau'va! ;)

 

I think that Bloods actually do it better [see below]

 

With BA i just drop my death co anywhere even remotly close by and let em go.

 

So - maybe tie them up in CC with your jumpers?

 

Bikers are damn good too if you have any.

 

Blood Angels DoA seem to be the hardest Marine army to face as Tau. They deploy in your face and are quicker than you. At least with a Pod list, they are only moving 6". The Jumpers are going 12" over terrain :P

 

Plus, having Vanguard that often land into assault is a real killer for the Tau, tying up those 'Suits and Broadsides even if they don't kill anything. Which they do....

[Baba Lem]

I'd put a WG pack leader in the Scouts, too. Bolter/Melter and Fist.

 

I wouldn't use TWC, though. The fact of railguns hurting them bad, remains. You could hardly buy them all Storm Shields. And even then, there's alot of Str 5 in a Tau army.

 

What about Sky Claws (the jumping BCs) They are rather cheap, considering their ability in CC, against TAU, and bring the bodies needed to survive a turn or two.

 

Once more, with WG to deliver that hurtful WS 4 fist into the ranks of the Crisis and Broadside elite.

 

You could cover their approach on one flank with a Rhino, which then will drop back eventually, to secure mission targets.

 

While they roll up one flank, you could tie the opposing flank with the Wolfscouts, don't be afraid of multicharging either.

 

And the centre, hit it hard with a melta-power and bodies, raining from the skies like Russ' furious onslaught itself !

 

You will suffer casualties from shooting. But you need to pay that tribute to make room and get in close.

[MaleOpener]

I only play up to 2K games, but this is what I use ...

 

 

1. Missile Launchers ~ Long Fang packs and typhoon speeders are just the thing in taking out crisis & broadsides. Also good at fragging fire warriors, pathfinders, and all kroot types.

 

2. Scouts with melta bombs, meltagun & MotW, WG with Combi-melta & power fist ~ The first game I tired scouts ( minus the WG ) was against Tau. I was lucky enough to be able to place them where I wished, so they popped up next to some crisis suits for fun. Much to the horror of my opponent ( and my delight ), these crazy bastards chewed through two crisis teams and a Shas'El leader ( MotW FTW! )! It took a CC round with two broadside teams to stomp them to death.

 

3. Speeders with HF/MM ~ These are my primary tank busters, and favored for frying troops.

 

 

Just my crazy~woman opinions :lol: