Terminator Sergeants and Identical Wargear

[Legatus]

The sargeant is an upgrade character. The rest of the unit is not. They are definitely 100% Different in the rules in game.

In fact, they are specifically described in the rulebook (p. 47):

 

"Upgrade characters are fielded as part of units from the start of the game, representing a squad leader or unit champion, such as a Space Marine Veteran Sergeant. They do not have an entry of their own and are effectively just another trooper in their unit, with enhanced characteristics and perhaps a wider selection of weapons and wargear choices."

 

Emphasis mine. So basically, in case of the Assault Terminator Sergeant, you hace "just another trooper" with the same characteristics and possibly the same weapons and wargear as the rest of the unit. (what matters for wound allocation is current equipment, not possible equipment options in the army list entry)

[BOBMAKENZIE]

The sargeant is an upgrade character. The rest of the unit is not. They are definitely 100% Different in the rules in game.

In fact, they are specifically described in the rulebook (p. 47):

 

"Upgrade characters are fielded as part of units from the start of the game, representing a squad leader or unit champion, such as a Space Marine Veteran Sergeant. They do not have an entry of their own and are effectively just another trooper in their unit, with enhanced characteristics and perhaps a wider selection of weapons and wargear choices."

 

Emphasis mine. So basically, in case of the Assault Terminator Sergeant, you hace "just another trooper" with the same characteristics and possibly the same weapons and wargear as the rest of the unit. (what matters for wound allocation is current equipment, not possible equipment options in the army list entry)

 

There are rules and abilities that can effect Sargeants that couldnt effect other models in the unit. I would say they are distinctly different from a gaming perspecetive that way.

[DarkGuard]

The sargeant is an upgrade character. The rest of the unit is not. They are definitely 100% Different in the rules in game.

In fact, they are specifically described in the rulebook (p. 47):

 

"Upgrade characters are fielded as part of units from the start of the game, representing a squad leader or unit champion, such as a Space Marine Veteran Sergeant. They do not have an entry of their own and are effectively just another trooper in their unit, with enhanced characteristics and perhaps a wider selection of weapons and wargear choices."

 

Emphasis mine. So basically, in case of the Assault Terminator Sergeant, you hace "just another trooper" with the same characteristics and possibly the same weapons and wargear as the rest of the unit. (what matters for wound allocation is current equipment, not possible equipment options in the army list entry)

 

There are rules and abilities that can effect Sargeants that couldnt effect other models in the unit. I would say they are distinctly different from a gaming perspecetive that way.

 

Please give us a rule or ability that would effect a Sergeant in a different way that it would effect other members of the unit. Telion's special rules? No, that relies on wound allocation, so in the instance of a squad of Hammernators it doesn't really apply. Mind War? That is to select any model, not any upgrade model or SC. I certainly can't think of one that specifically affects Space Marine Sergeants, and I can't think of an inherent ability for Space Marine Sergeants of any type. In the case of Sternguard and Assault Terminators, if you have them all equipped the same then there are no wound allocation games to be had. They all have the same statline, they all have the same equipment, they all affect the game in the same way. They are all equal in gaming terms. It's that simple really.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Please give us a rule or ability that would effect a Sergeant in a different way that it would effect other members of the unit. Telion's special rules? No, that relies on wound allocation, so in the instance of a squad of Hammernators it doesn't really apply. Mind War? That is to select any model, not any upgrade model or SC. I certainly can't think of one that specifically affects Space Marine Sergeants, and I can't think of an inherent ability for Space Marine Sergeants of any type. In the case of Sternguard and Assault Terminators, if you have them all equipped the same then there are no wound allocation games to be had. They all have the same statline, they all have the same equipment, they all affect the game in the same way. They are all equal in gaming terms. It's that simple really.

 

easy theres only 2 that I know of at this moment.

1 that is Sargeant specific. The Sanguinors Blessing and

2 the DeathLeapers (Something Or other) The Negative leadership ability. It applies to Characters. Named, upgrade or Independant.

[DarkGuard]

Please give us a rule or ability that would effect a Sergeant in a different way that it would effect other members of the unit. Telion's special rules? No, that relies on wound allocation, so in the instance of a squad of Hammernators it doesn't really apply. Mind War? That is to select any model, not any upgrade model or SC. I certainly can't think of one that specifically affects Space Marine Sergeants, and I can't think of an inherent ability for Space Marine Sergeants of any type. In the case of Sternguard and Assault Terminators, if you have them all equipped the same then there are no wound allocation games to be had. They all have the same statline, they all have the same equipment, they all affect the game in the same way. They are all equal in gaming terms. It's that simple really.

 

easy theres only 2 that I know of at this moment.

1 that is Sargeant specific. The Sanguinors Blessing and

2 the DeathLeapers (Something Or other) The Negative leadership ability. It applies to Characters. Named, upgrade or Independant.

 

Of course, Blood Angels, trust me to overlook that, I was never a big fan of the Sanguinor, and I barely use Deathleaper .

 

However, these are special rules that have nothing to do with wound allocation. Now using them, however, will affect wound allocation, as the model in question now has altered states, be it in the increased WS and all that from the Sanguinor or the decreased Ld from Deathleaper. They are now different in gaming terms, as they have different statlines to the rest of their unit and can legitimately be put into a separate wound allocation group. However, if these abilities aren't in play, or are in play but not effecting them (effecting someone else for instance), then in gaming terms they are no different than the rest of their squad, because they have the same statline and equipment.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Please give us a rule or ability that would effect a Sergeant in a different way that it would effect other members of the unit. Telion's special rules? No, that relies on wound allocation, so in the instance of a squad of Hammernators it doesn't really apply. Mind War? That is to select any model, not any upgrade model or SC. I certainly can't think of one that specifically affects Space Marine Sergeants, and I can't think of an inherent ability for Space Marine Sergeants of any type. In the case of Sternguard and Assault Terminators, if you have them all equipped the same then there are no wound allocation games to be had. They all have the same statline, they all have the same equipment, they all affect the game in the same way. They are all equal in gaming terms. It's that simple really.

 

easy theres only 2 that I know of at this moment.

1 that is Sargeant specific. The Sanguinors Blessing and

2 the DeathLeapers (Something Or other) The Negative leadership ability. It applies to Characters. Named, upgrade or Independant.

 

Of course, Blood Angels, trust me to overlook that, I was never a big fan of the Sanguinor, and I barely use Deathleaper :).

 

However, these are special rules that have nothing to do with wound allocation. Now using them, however, will affect wound allocation, as the model in question now has altered states, be it in the increased WS and all that from the Sanguinor or the decreased Ld from Deathleaper. They are now different in gaming terms, as they have different statlines to the rest of their unit and can legitimately be put into a separate wound allocation group. However, if these abilities aren't in play, or are in play but not effecting them (effecting someone else for instance), then in gaming terms they are no different than the rest of their squad, because they have the same statline and equipment.

 

Im not sure I agree. Its pretty clear that they are different because they interact with some rules differently (even if those rules are rare!) It seems to me that that means they are different gaming terms. Interaction or no. Though admittably they are more or less the same thing otherwise.

[shatter]

Yep, and that's it.

It requires an instance of a rule invoking a difference for there to be a difference.

Eg. the Sanguinor needs to have blessed the sgt for him to be different.

 

If deathleaper is on the table, one has a case with certain codexes and squads in that game for the sgt to be noted different. However, I consider it tenuous even so given it's obvious global insignificance.