HB66 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Hello BA Players, - I really like the idea of Sternguard......a stalwart line of veterans laying down a withering barrage of fire.......wow!!!! Heres the squad I like, and i would field them with my HQ, most likely a "as Gabriel Seth" BA Captain, then either in a SR or LR 10 - SternGuard - Serg. w/ lightning claw and melta bombs - 2 Heavy Flamers, 2 combi-flamers, 3 combi-meltas - 315pts. So what do yall think? is this just to much of a points sink? I was thinking of usint them in a LR or SR charging up the center with Assault Squads or squads in rhinos flanking the LR or SR. Pop them out, about 18in from the enemy and let them pour on the lead while the other squads do a classic pincher move on the flanks of the bad guy. At least thats my thought. HB66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astorath the Grim Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I don't think I'd mess with Seth in a sternguard squad, they are a shooty unit. If your going to use them I'd put regular Tycho in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB66 Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 But besides that.....does it look like a nice squad that would be affective onthe board? HB66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Again, there is no synergy. Heavy Flamers and Meltas have no common aim. And running them with Seth makes even less sense. Sternguard can be good, but please try and evaluate what role they will fulfill for you on the battlefield, and then examine how best to go about that role. If you are looking for marines who are easy to tool up for close range shooting but can also function in assault, you are far better off running a unit of Honour Guard with 4 special ranged weapons, a fist and a power weapon, and put them with Seth. Your tactic of running them with Seth at 18 inch range makes me wonder why you would include Seth and the Flamers and Melta? Why not Tycho and just bolter and storm bolter marines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astorath the Grim Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I've never used Sternguard myself but it does look like it could be quite effective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB66 Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 Yeah i guess Seth would not be the best choice for an HQ to go with that squad, - my plan for all the flamers and melta's is to have a squad that can be very effective, against hordes, armor, and still be able to hold their own in a fight...at least until another squad can come help. - with all the flamer, especially the heavy flamers this squad would murder hordes and squads up close, then the combi meltas are for the armor, and you have the special ammo to take out chaos marines, and other type things depending on the situation. so let me revise the basic build...... - Captain Tycho - 10 SternGuard - serg, w/melta bombs, lightning claw - 2 Heavy Flamers, 2 combi flamers, 3 combi meltas - SR or LR as a transport HB66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zid Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Pretty much what sama said. sternguard have always disappointed me. Sure, they get a lot of cool shooting options. But on the same hand, they blow (royally) in CC, they have to take combi-meltas to be a reliable option at popping tanks, and they don't synergize very well with most of our HQ's. The best use for sternguard that I've seen is packing 5 into a drop pod, arm them all with combi-meltas, and alpha strike a tank or two. Course, this is typically a vanilla SM tactic as have better options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB66 Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 What if you add a Sanguinary Priest as well? - that way you increase the chance of red thirst and they have a base 2 attacks, it would be the same as an assault squad, just with no power weapons and really good shooting options like you mentioned. - One big reason i like em is for fluff reasons, i like the idea of all these finely crafted guns and a curtain of fire, flame and melta shredding everything. Ive loved the Sternguard sense they first came out in the SM Codex. HB66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zid Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 What if you add a Sanguinary Priest as well? - that way you increase the chance of red thirst and they have a base 2 attacks, it would be the same as an assault squad, just with no power weapons and really good shooting options like you mentioned. - One big reason i like em is for fluff reasons, i like the idea of all these finely crafted guns and a curtain of fire, flame and melta shredding everything. Ive loved the Sternguard sense they first came out in the SM Codex. HB66 Well look at it this way: 10 sternguard (base) is 250 points 1 priest 50 pts So thats 300 points BEFORE upgrades and transport. The sternguard get 2 base attacks; assault marines are pretty much the same (1+1) plus they get 35 points off a transport OR come with JP's. So your spending a lot of points on a squad that needs to basically stand and shoot rapid fire to be super effective. They can do OK in CC but they're no better than assault marines in that aspect. So I'd suggest taking them one of two ways: 1) Tankbusters - 7 sternguard,2 meltas, 2 combi-meltas, pf, rhino - 275 pts 2) Anti-infantry - 7 sternguard, 2 heavy flamers, PW, rhino - 265 pts As sama said, focus the squad on a task and gear them for it. Just like your assault squads doing 2x meltas or 2x flamers; that way you don't have 5 squads all trying to kill 1 tank because you keep missing your few melta shots or whatever. Sternguard can be OK, I guess I just dislike how expensive they are. They also are very shooty; which I don't think feel BA enough lol. Also, you can get the same options on other stuff (HF's on speeders or dreads for example) that are better at everything else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradley Powers Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 You can't use special ammunition with a Storm Bolter, because Storm Bolters are not Boltguns. The only weapon choice (other than what they come with) that you can equip and still use special ammo is a combi-weapon, as stated in the codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I've run both 5-man and 10-man squads before and I must conclude less is more. The 5-man is relatively cheap and is a large enough squad that you can still put some hurt on the unique things you will be targeting. When using the Sternguard though you really need to play them like guardsmen. Keep them in cover, keep them back, careful on your ranges, make sure you're not getting charged unless you have a serious advantage. They may have 2 attacks but that doesn't count for much. I'd suggest using them in a reactive manner. My 10-man squad held the line against a swarm of bikes but I mistakenly decided to charge them. The Sternguard were cutdown due to a series of bad rolls and special weapons on the enemy. They just don't have the resilience or offensive power to make sufficient close combat units - attached HQ or not. A 5-man team is cheaper, still offers some of the unique abilities, and makes a decent body guard for a shooty HQ such as a librarian. I see the allure for both types of combi weapons and I arm my squads similarly but don't go crazy on the upgrades. Keep the squad cheap and mobile. I run PF, 2 Combi-melta, 2 Combi-plasma. They're definitely not my number 1 elite choice. In fact, they're not even in the top 3. TDA, Priest, Furioso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Basically, Sternguard are good for loading out on Melta. However you can do that better with a 115pt Honour Guard squad. They can all take Meltaguns, and can also take CC weapons. More survivable due to the built in SP, and also more effective in CC. I don't see a reason to use Sternguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zid Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 You can't use special ammunition with a Storm Bolter, because Storm Bolters are not Boltguns. The only weapon choice (other than what they come with) that you can equip and still use special ammo is a combi-weapon, as stated in the codex. Ah, your correct. Well in that case ignore all the stormbolters in any of my posts... Honestly, it'd make sense for the special ammo to be shot from stormbolters or boltguns... would make the option feasible and make more sense @_@ So I'll have to agree completely with sama; you can take 5 HG w/ 4 meltas for 155 pts. Or you get 5 sternguard w/ 2 meltas for 145 pts... really makes more sense to take the HG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ander00 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Sure, they are expensive and you have to get them where you want them but under the right circumstances they can be golden. 20 Hellfire Bolts coming its way can quite ruin a Monstrous Creature's day. On average that's a little over 11 wounds to anything with Toughness 5 or above. I like shooty Blood Angels just fine (hence didn't like 3E too much, with the randomly charging Devastators/tanks), but then again, I don't play at tournaments and I've been playing since before Blood Angels had any special rules whatsoever, so the draw for me wasn't close combat carnage/all jump pack armies (not that I mind those, of course ;)). In general though, you'll probably fare better with HG. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 You could always take a 5 man squad with heavy flamer and 2/3 combi meltas. Offering a intermiediate anti tank/anti horde force. Problem is the honour guard does the meltacide better and Assualt Marines are a good general sturdy unit, so you really need to take advantage of the fact that this squad can go head to head with anything and do reasonably well. Personally, I would only take them in this codex if you liked them, but it's still useful for a bit of fun. I like these guys better then tacticals for the support role anyways, since in shooting these guys provide high quaility clout, a heavy flamer followed by some armour ignoring rounds/hellfire before an assualt squad jumps in could really do some serious damage. Just it would need a lot of protecting, its' not nearly as robust as a honour guard squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I think they work best with Tycho due to his Bloodsong. I like you've equipped your list. Lots of flamers with roast even SM. G :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou666 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 When i do sternguard, i just pod 10 of them, with combi meltas. then, pod behind two enemy tanks, combat sqaud them, and more often that not, you will take out 1 or two vehicles, and distrupt thier lines for a good while. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB66 Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 Cool, thanks for the opinions, its exactly the kinda feedback i wanted to hear..... - I think ill paint me up a big ole squad of Sternguard to test out and just play some friendly games with to see how they fair...in both the 10 man and 5 man variety. Yall make some really good points that i hadnt really thought of cause i was blinded by the fact that i liked them for fluff reasons so much. It is a major point sink in an army and basically from what it sounds like, if I took a 10 man squad with a transport im looking at well over 500pts. - The 5 man melta squad sounds nice, maybe in a Razorback? - i thought they sounded very BA cause of all the flame and melta, but i guess that would be more Salamanders, sheets of flame and melta proceding a massive rage filled close combat charge just always sounded very BA to me. - I would defentley use non-death company Tycho instead of Seth, and still might invest in a Sanguinary Priest, then maybe some assault squads in rhinos, Baal Predators, and a LR Crusader or Redeemer to transport my Sternguard.....but not sure how many points that would be, probably a 2000pt list. HB66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 All I can say is don't overtool your squad. Sternguard are too expensive to throw away, using them as disposable melta will result in you losing 300 points to break two 35/70 point boxes used to contain things. (often destorying a Rhino means nothing to the army, they often just break out and assualt the guy who broke their ride, unless your imperial guard the squad will just barrel streight into the squad after a good shoot back. Hence unless you see a lot of heavy stuff, Russ's or Landraiders, it's often better to deepstrike or charge an assualt squad in.) So you want them to always have a target to shoot at, but be cheap and small enough that the foe always has another, equally valid target. It's the same reason I would be weary of attaching charcters, as they will become more of a target. A sneaky sternguard is an alive sternguard, an alive sternguard will happily shoot at anything all day, provided you have a way to ensure they don't get locked in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnon Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I actually have been toiling with the idea of equipping buying 10 Tycho models to make a Sternguard all with combi melta's while calling them the manliest squad in the army <_< I've been wondering how they would do with a transport though, I like the though of driving them around in a Rhino then jump out and kill any enemy squad in range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corby Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 When i do sternguard, i just pod 10 of them, with combi meltas. then, pod behind two enemy tanks, combat sqaud them, and more often that not, you will take out 1 or two vehicles, and distrupt thier lines for a good while. <_< Its a very ineffective tactic , and all your opponent is required to do is castle up/create proper screening ( much like dealing with demons ) to render the threat ineffective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chris Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I think you are thinking of something which is basically an honour guard. Some of them can have bolters, some can have special weapons, some close combat. And you get a priest instead of a sergeant. The sternguard models are great, but they can easily be used in the honour guard. You don't have to, but I always have my commander attached to the honour guard, which is basically your Seth guggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Assuming baseline functionality (as opposed to choppy aka Vanguard vs HG). Special ammo/10CMG vs 4MG + priest. In this example, you can't compare customization as the HG is set at 4MG. You can't compare models as special rules are different. So, I think a priest must be added with another combi-melta (solely to compare as accurately as possible). 360 vs 155 11 models/wounds vs 5. 32.7 vs 31. (Or, HG are ~5% cheaper) There are still differences, each favoring one side or the other. This list in not exhaustive. Sternguard priest can hide in the ride, HG priest isn't as CC vulnerable Sternguard priest has IC rule Not being able to fit two HG units in one reserve roll HG infantry always fit in a razorback. Initial Max .8 MG shots per model on HG as opposed to 1 on sternguard. As the novitiate is preserved, this ratio worsens. FoC 'free' HG vs Sternguard's Elites slot. In short, I think that if one simply wished for a few more models in their melta foot HG, and had a spare elites slot, Sternguard is valid. If the sternguard's heavy weapon upgrades, notably heavy flamer (S5 Assault 1 Template), suit one's playstyle or synergy, then HG are no longer able to easily compete. I didn't talk about the difference between special ammo combi melta vs MGs because that would make this comment far too long and messy. Sometimes it's better to use special ammo. Sometimes use the combi. Sometimes you wish to only use melta but no longer can. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I personally take sterngaurd only for there special ammo. Other squads can do teh melta route much better - and cheaper - but nothing else can take down a Tyrant in one round of shooting and still survive against teh inevitable CC wave. Poison rounds are golden, theres also a longer range shot - which gives youa longer short range double tap range. Dont forget teh cover ignoring rounds which have raelly come in handy for me against gaurd and ork. In summation, i dont tool them up apart from either 1 or 2 combis or maybe a plasma cannon (for chaos scum). Good luck, i love the unit personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurb Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Saw someone on here recently that ran 5 with 2 rocket launchers. Would make for a nice firebase group I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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