Brother iKon Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Hello fellow unforgiven a piece of information has come to my attention and i am looking to verify its factuality if is a completly new story to me and thats unusual. I found it here http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Angels i know i should know better ■Master Gabriel - Ex-Master of the Deathwing. Was sent to find Captain Ezekiel and his men as they did not return from Totem. On finding Ezekiel the lone survivor, Gabriel discovered the fate of his Brothers. Gabriel returned to his Chapter and started the new Deathwing using his own badge, a broken sword mixed with the wings of the Chapter badge, and kept the white in respect of his Brothers. He was killed on the Space Hulk Charnel Shrine. Now i get that this is refering to the aftermath of the short story "Deathwing" but there is stuff i had not heard before can anybody that recognises it site a source? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I believe this is somewhat incorrect. The Space Hulk Deathwing book simply states that the armor color was changed from black to bone white in honor of those lost on the Plains world. Also, no one started the "new Deathwing", as I believe those on the Plains world only numbered one or two squads, so most of the Deathwing company remained in tact elsewhere. The Deathwing symbols was already a broken sword in remembrance of the Lion's sword which was broken. EDIT: Okay, it appears I may be the one that's wrong in regards to the icon, the image here shows the "old Deathwing", with unbroken sword icon and black armor - http://fromthewarp.blogspot.com/2010/12/de...ur-to-bone.html Suppose it's just a matter of expanding fluff that the Lion's sword was also broken. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/#findComment-2657950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kizzap88 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 One thing that always has confused me about the DA "secret" in the fluff is, what do they do if another chapter kills one of the Fallen? I mean how do the DA find out about it, and what happens if they never do? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/#findComment-2657988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Who cares. The Fallen is dead. It's not like they are running around with a banner on their back saying what they are. A Black Templars force once captured one of the Fallen. The Dark Angels requested that the prisoner be handed over to them, they were refused, and the Black Templar ship carrying the prisoner...disappeared. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/#findComment-2658064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imriel Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 The Deathwing symbols was already a broken sword in remembrance of the Lion's sword which was broken. While that may be true in the newer canon, in actuality, all of the Deathwing's iconography stems from the Plains world incident story. Also, I've never actually ever seen any indication in any DA fluff that the DA actually know the Lion Sword broke. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/#findComment-2658077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 The Deathwing symbols was already a broken sword in remembrance of the Lion's sword which was broken. While that may be true in the newer canon, in actuality, all of the Deathwing's iconography stems from the Plains world incident story. Also, I've never actually ever seen any indication in any DA fluff that the DA actually know the Lion Sword broke. Yea, I just assumed. Makes sense they may not know. See my edit/link above, it confirms the old scheme WITH solid sword icon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/#findComment-2658081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imriel Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 One thing that always has confused me about the DA "secret" in the fluff is, what do they do if another chapter kills one of the Fallen? I mean how do the DA find out about it, and what happens if they never do? Who cares. The Fallen is dead. It's not like they are running around with a banner on their back saying what they are. A Black Templars force once captured one of the Fallen. The Dark Angels requested that the prisoner be handed over to them, they were refused, and the Black Templar ship carrying the prisoner...disappeared. The Dark Angels care, they wont consider themselves redeemed until all of the Fallen have been confessed. the Fallen were spread throughout time and space, many may be beyond the chapters reach, it has always been meant to be an impossible task. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/#findComment-2658087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shadow Guard Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I believe this is somewhat incorrect. The Space Hulk Deathwing book simply states that the armor color was changed from black to bone white in honor of those lost on the Plains world. Also, no one started the "new Deathwing", as I believe those on the Plains world only numbered one or two squads, so most of the Deathwing company remained in tact elsewhere. Almost correct. I believe the number of temrinators involved in the Plains World incident was around 30... I will check but somewhere in the actual Deathwing short story the number is mentioned. Also described in the novel is that their armour being black. The Deathwing symbols was already a broken sword in remembrance of the Lion's sword which was broken. EDIT: Okay, it appears I may be the one that's wrong in regards to the icon, the image here shows the "old Deathwing", with unbroken sword icon and black armor - http://fromthewarp.blogspot.com/2010/12/de...ur-to-bone.html Suppose it's just a matter of expanding fluff that the Lion's sword was also broken. Quite correct. The original pre heresy symbol was a red unbroken winged sword. The broekn sword has allegorical meaning which may simply be a representation of the split in the legion, known only to those in the Deathwing.... Other members of the chapter wear the unbroken white winged sword. One thing that always has confused me about the DA "secret" in the fluff is, what do they do if another chapter kills one of the Fallen? I mean how do the DA find out about it, and what happens if they never do? Nothing to be confused about. The hunt for the fallen will be eternal, the constant driving force for the chapter to retain their honour and remain loyal to the emperor forever. This driving force will never be sent for obvius reasons. SG Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/#findComment-2658310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Uriah Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Quite correct. The original pre heresy symbol was a red unbroken winged sword. The broekn sword has allegorical meaning which may simply be a representation of the split in the legion, known only to those in the Deathwing.... Other members of the chapter wear the unbroken white winged sword. Completely on-board with The Shadow Guard here. The symbol of the Deathwing has nothing to do with the Lion's actual sword. Nobody witnessed the battle between the Lion and Luther, so nobody, save the Watchers (and maybe Cypher, if you think that is the sword he's been toting around without using ever since), would even know that the sword was broken. It disappeared, along with the Lion, before Luther was discovered after the fight. The broken sword emblem of the Deathwing is entirely representative of the schism the Legion suffered ten-thousand years ago. I would think that the Deathwing would have adopted the broken sword as their symbol long before they recoloured their armour after the Plains World incident in Deathwing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/#findComment-2658348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 The Dark Angels care, they wont consider themselves redeemed until all of the Fallen have been confessed. ..or are dead, as the dead cannot confess. Besides, the DA are not going around asking anyone and everyone about every single dead marine, just to see if it so happens to one of the Fallen. Likewise, anyone and everyone is not contacting the DA to tell them that they have killed a marine, or found a dead marine, just because. The DA cannot care about what they do not know about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/#findComment-2658359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imriel Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 The Dark Angels care, they wont consider themselves redeemed until all of the Fallen have been confessed. ..or are dead, as the dead cannot confess. Besides, the DA are not going around asking anyone and everyone about every single dead marine, just to see if it so happens to one of the Fallen. Likewise, anyone and everyone is not contacting the DA to tell them that they have killed a marine, or found a dead marine, just because. The DA cannot care about what they do not know about. Yes, they can in fact care about something they don't know, even if they might not realize they do. If the one of the Fallen is dead, the DA would need confirmation of that fact otherwise they will continue to hunt him down as if he were alive. Yes, their secretive nature means that that some avenues of information are closed to them, and yes, it is very likely that they will never learn the fate of all of the Fallen but thats the point, that's what makes the tragic heroes. They seek redemption which may beyond their reach. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/#findComment-2658546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I would think that the Deathwing would have adopted the broken sword as their symbol long before they recoloured their armour after the Plains World incident in Deathwing. But it still remains that older GW Deathwing models were all black with a solid red icon. Or are we supposed to simply consider them crusade/heresy era? The style of the armor wouldn't really support that argument. Perhaps, (yes, this is more of a joke) they were waiting for a suitable cover story to add that broken sword to the icon - which actually represents the schism (that no one save the Deathwing know of) - and the Plains world incident was the perfect event. It might not be the actual reason, but it is very Dark Angel-esque - wait 6000 years after the heresy to finally add the broken sword they wanted to add all along so no questions are asked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/#findComment-2658585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodunius Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 But it still remains that older GW Deathwing models were all black with a solid red icon. At the same time Iron Warriors were blue and worshipped Slaanesh, Night Lords were black and worshipped Khorne, the Space Wolves were a staunch codex chapter and the Ultramarines were a 3rd Founding Chapter.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/#findComment-2658953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 But it still remains that older GW Deathwing models were all black with a solid red icon. Or are we supposed to simply consider them crusade/heresy era? The style of the armor wouldn't really support that argument. And to prove it.... a pre-heresy terminator. Full sword for all to see. http://www.thedarkfortress.co.uk/images/predeath.jpg Cheers I Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/#findComment-2659130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I think that what we have here is a solid example of the ... "fluid" ... state of the fluff during the Rogue Trader era. GW had concepts and ideas, but didn't have them organized into a coherent whole, and the participation of numerous authors and artists confused things, resulting in inconsistencies and contradictions. At this point, I'd wait to see how the Horus Heresy novels ret-con things instead of trying to impose logic on everything (you'll maintain your sanity that way :o ). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/#findComment-2659502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 What in the world is that? xDDD Looks like some collectable cards game! I never really understood the "hunched" thing about terminators... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/#findComment-2659812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 As far as I know it's an image from the back of an old Space Hulk game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/#findComment-2659894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 ■Master Gabriel - Ex-Master of the Deathwing. Was sent to find Captain Ezekiel and his men as they did not return from Totem. On finding Ezekiel the lone survivor, Gabriel discovered the fate of his Brothers. Gabriel returned to his Chapter and started the new Deathwing using his own badge, a broken sword mixed with the wings of the Chapter badge, and kept the white in respect of his Brothers. He was killed on the Space Hulk Charnel Shrine. One note... the Master Gabriel who found Ezekiel (NOT the chief librarian) on the Plains World is NOT the one who was killed on the Charnel Shrine. That Gabriel was Belial's predecessor, the Gabriel from the Deathwing story was master thousands of years before Belial. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/#findComment-2660166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother iKon Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 Thanks 'beast that answers some of it, What about the reference to Plains world being called "Totem" anybody heard that before? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222297-fluff-source-unknown/#findComment-2660529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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