igotsmeakabob!! Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I was waxing nostalgic the other day, thinking back to our 2nd, 3rd and (sadly) 4th edition rules. I miss the days when Feel No Pain was a rare trait, when our Death Company were defined by the ability to Ignore Wounds. I think they were one of the two units that had something like it back in 2e & 3e 'til Necrons. Our Priests used be symbols, their presence inspired our Battle-Brothers to outdo each-other in combat just to distinguish themselves (gave them a reroll to hit in the first round of combat in 3e I think). I've been wondering how strong a Sanguinary Priest-less would be nowadays? I've never even considered NOT taking one since the new 'dex released, but now I've been thinking about it. Has anyone had experience fielding a list without them? I'd like Death Co. to be the only thing in my list that has FNP. I suppose I also want to ask if you think that the army-wide proliferation of things like FNP and FC are a good or bad thing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 tbh every list i take has the same duo in it :( COULD i play a list without them? sure. do i want to? eh....not really :huh: theyre just so good, and not just for the FNP and FC. the 4 WS5, S5 attacks on the charge also make the unit they are in that much more powerfull :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2657783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Of course you can. It's not like they are free after all. You pay for what you get. And if you're facing down powerweapons and plasma and the like they're kind of useless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2657933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 exactly :) its like asking if a wolf player could play without thundercav, orks without a KFF, a nid player without monstrous creatures etc. its all viable, but some things are just REALLY good and worth taking :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2657947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vharing Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I just played against a SM Vulkan list friday night. I had an honour guard novitiate and sanguinary priest with a unit of sanguinary guard. Both my priest died almost right away. I had a tactical squad last against assault squad for 3 turns no problem. I have found priests to be a boon and a bane sometimes. They get singled out in combat most times. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2657955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Sanguinary Priest-less Army, Can we do it? as rules go ? yes of course you can play without them , it is legal. Army building wise it doesnt make much sense . If someone wants to play a tac centered army without priests then the loyalist sm dex does everything the same only cheaper. It like playing chaos without DP or space wolfs with rune priests/long fangs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2657970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Its definitely doable, I've seen a fair few lists that don't. Mostly, I'm just disappointed that the new (does it still count as new after 10 months?) codex didn't bring back my beloved Sanguinary High Priest as an HQ choice :D. Wonder why they got rid of him... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Blayse Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 It can be done pretty well if your playing a mech type list. Instead of 65 to 90 points for each priest you can use the points to help you afford Baal's and Lasbacks. If your doing this, then your probably going to want to run a few tac squads in rhino's also. I've played this a few types, it's not my favorite... but, can do pretty well. In most cases you will not be assaulting much, FNP and FC make a huge difference in that regard. When I first started my fleshtearers I picked up 8 tac squads for $30, so I've found ways to work them in. Personally I'm a big fan of running firelines of bare-bones priests and tac squads. But, you can get a lot of other stuff for the cost of a few of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I see no reason not to take at least one. G :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 The scenarios I can think of where you would forgo a SP go from the sublime to the ridiculous. -A DC heavy Army wouldn't really get great value out of the SPs. -An army that won't do any charging (so you have no use for Furious Charge) -If all your Marines were cheap, in no bigger than 5 man squads, and spread way apart (or meant to stay in their vehicles). -If you were playing some wierd point denial close combat oriented list. -I'm sure you can come up with some really wierd game scenarios with strange victory conditions (that would require you to not pass saving throws or something). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Outside of either really small games or full DC army games, I can't see going Priest less. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I'm the opposite, I never take a priest and I still kick fundament for Sanguinius. In all honesty the priests have never appealed to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 In my Doa army I only include 1 priest... and that's the one in my meltagun heavy honour guard... Though I must say it's nice with a FNP/FC bubble, but normal elite choice priests have a abit of being targeted in close combat and sliced apart by the first guy who has a power wep. In a honour guard he can't be targeted. But only reason I use him is cause honour guards with meltas seemed like a better tank hunter than vanguards/ sanguinary guard. I also use DC(6) in a raven with a DC dread + lemartes and that is enough for winning any close combat with or without fnp/fc on my assault marines...the death company gets the job done! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 The priests have become something of a tag unit, people taking the view that you have to use them and any army without them sucks. My personal view is I always find better uses for either the points or the elite slots. Then again I'm also the Space Wolf guy who takes longfangs and no thunderwolf cav and still manages to win. the fnp bubble makes life easier yes, but it's not essential. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judaz Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I just played against a SM Vulkan list friday night. I had an honour guard novitiate and sanguinary priest with a unit of sanguinary guard. Both my priest died almost right away. I had a tactical squad last against assault squad for 3 turns no problem. I have found priests to be a boon and a bane sometimes. They get singled out in combat most times. But the novitate can't be singled out, can he? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus_Sanguinius Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 No, he cannot be singled out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelOfDeathXIII Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I played against an Ork army this weekend and I used a Sanguinary Priest for the first time.. I don't think I'll ever play without one again... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus_Sanguinius Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Absolutely. A Sanguinary Priest can be very brutal against Orks. FnP for the win! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Learn how to place your priest in combat properly and it will take a minor miracle for him to actually die It takes just under 25 non-Power Weapon WS4 S4 attacks to cause 1 wound. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corby Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I do not use a priest , and see no need for using one currently , they don't really fit my list very well. ( and I've my elite slots maxed out with Furioso dreads and T-hammer termies anyways) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwlandMoonGuy Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 The question is very subjective as one unit never makes or breaks overall strategies for a given army build. The SP is a support unit that increases another (infantry) unit’s effectiveness, primarily in assaults but can also support “shooting” infantry by making them more resilient. This is an effective approach vs. some armies and less so for others. As noted, armies that rely on lots of non-powered, close combat attacks are countered well by PA units that furiously charge and feel no pain. More specialized CC armies like Daemons will eat your lunch as your 50 pt+ Priests can’t help much when you’re getting carved up by hell blades. But, I believe as any veteran BA player will tell you, they have never been strictly a close combat oriented breed of space marine. Armor-centric BA lists leverage marine shooting at Fast speeds thereby relieving the need for Priestly support. If the army consists of largely 5-man squads, bolstering their longevity is hardly worth the 50 pt investment. Since the Chalice effect works at range (and not attachment) it’s still possible to support multiple small units (and/or quality IC) at once but still, that requires a specific tactical plan designed around leveraging that benefit. Perhaps a better approach would be to question the Priests role in a given list and see if that role is really worth the points required to enlist his services. But I will contest that there are instances where he’s not especially valuable. Cheers, -OMG Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMac Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 You can still get FNP and FC without a priest. You just have to be lucky and roll those 1s for The Red Thirst, or take Astorath and increase those chances. The points don't really balance out though; you have a 220 point who only increases the chance of FNP and FC where a 50 point model guarantees it. Logically, like or brothers say, if you want to play FNP and FC effectively it doesn't make sense to play without a priest. However, play around with other lists for fun. See if you can get something else to work. IMO, I agree with Igotsmeakabob!!. FNP and FC just seems cliche now that nearly everyone in our dex can have them with the proper loadout. He is right that it used to be only a select few that were subject to these rules, known as the death company. Which is why I am building a Death Company heavy army without Sanguinary Priests. Think about it, the codex has SOOO much to offer besides FNP and FC which are great, don't get me wrong. We have Rhinos that move 18", the Baal Predator which can get across the table into firing range in turn 1, Dreadnoughts that can fly(psychically or by transport), a D6 scatter roll for deep strike vs 2D6, Dreadnoughts with fleet and ignore crew chaken/stunned, a stormraven (enough said there), and not to mention some of the coolest models in the 40k universe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Red Thirst gives you Furious Charge and FEARLESS not Feel no pain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burias-Drak'shal Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Its certainly possible. I personally wouldnt want to. Though not using any may make you appreciate the benefits of having them in your army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB66 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 My consistent problem is i can never decide what i want to put in my armies cause theres just so much cool stuff. - i need to run some tests with and with out San priests, - i would think though that space marines are strong enough to survive with out a san priest.....its not like BA's turn into weak Imperial Guard like stats with out a priest. HB66 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222346-sanguinary-priest-less-army/#findComment-2658818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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