Whitefireinferno Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Well more importantly the Mini rule book says Infantry, Jump infantry , MCs and Walkers can all move up Levels in Ruins so to me this would mean Cavs and Beasts cannot *aswell and some other things* But then A mate is arguing that they can due to lol why not Im sure I have Read somewhere that they cannot but do not know where so If anybody can lend any assistance that would be Choice :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 If beasts and Cav are not on the list than can go up levels, they can't. Pretty simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhg Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 The rules are pretty clear on the matter. 40k Rulebook, p. 54Beasts and cavalry move like infantry 40k Rulebook, p. 83Only infantry, jump infantry, jetbikes, MC's and walkers may move on the upper levels of a ruin So while Beasts & Cavalry move like Infantry, they are distinguished as a different unit type. They are not named specifically as capable of going to the upper levels of a ruin, thus they cannot do it. If your friend wants to put his beasts and cavalry in the upper levels he's going to have to point out to you where in the rules it specifically states that he may do so. The beasts can enter a ruin, but they are going to be stuck on the ground floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 If your friend wants to put his beasts and cavalry in the upper levels he's going to have to point out to you where in the rules it specifically states that he may do so. Well he can put them there (during deployment), they just cannot get down afterward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 Yeah that was exactly as I thought BUT he went and Emailed customer services and well they gave the usual "we don't Know our rules" approach and is saying its from GW and it therefore the correct ruling Oh Great I guess I will let him due to when playing at His place he will just get all "I'm just going to house rule it" and that's that. Oh well I know I am right But alas he will not see that Oh well Cheers Brothers Stay Frosty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Is your group just you and him? I would never let one person set house rules. Also, do you ever play in other locations, if so it would be good to remind him that other people/tournaments, won't allow it so it is better to learn to play without it instead of forming habits with incorrect rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 Nah it just when I play at his that these sort of Issues come up It just does not help Half My Mates that Play Warhams play there due to Being Lazy to go to our Club. Ive tried to tell him these things wont fly at a tourney but he just decides to be all "How Many GW tourneys have you been to?" Which is Zero due to our Island not having a GW store. I guess I will just deal with it I know I am right its the Same as His arguing that FNP should not get saves against Ap3 But he got told by a manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 and the rest of the players are ok with his house rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Yeah that was exactly as I thought BUT he went and Emailed customer services and well they gave the usual "we don't Know our rules" approach and is saying its from GW and it therefore the correct ruling Oh Great I guess I will let him due to when playing at His place he will just get all "I'm just going to house rule it" and that's that. Oh well I know I am right But alas he will not see that Oh well Cheers Brothers Stay Frosty. Get him to show you where it says they can... If he can't tough... if he still plays it when he hasn't proved it start taking a 2+ save against every glance and pen on your vehicles and ask him to show you where it says you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 If your friend wants to put his beasts and cavalry in the upper levels he's going to have to point out to you where in the rules it specifically states that he may do so. Well he can put them there (during deployment), they just cannot get down afterward No you may not deploy them there. BRB FAQ "Q: Can a unit deploy in impassable terrain? (p92) A: Not unless it is specifically allowed to move through impassable terrain." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhg Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 "How Many GW tourneys have you been to?" Which is Zero due to our Island not having a GW store. I see you're a Kiwi too... First up, not having a GW store means you are not missing out on anything at all. GW stores here (in Auckland) are awful places to play games. If it's not staff coming over and trying to tell you how to play your army uninvited, then it's the mall rats who think they're all badass by asking you REALLY dumb questions. And heaven forbid you have to deal with one of those children who like to look with their hands (Did I say 'hands'? I meant to say 'wrecking balls') Try to tell them off, stop them or otherwise intervene in your models demise and you'll have Mum-a-sarus Rex screaming at you to leave their perfect precious darling alone... As for GW tournaments... There are none. Not here in NZ anyway. They sponsor a few that people host themselves but GW no longer does the administration themselves. The attitude honestly is appalling. I would imagine that fairly soon he's going to get a surprise dose of reality shovelled down his gullet when he comes across someone who actually knows their stuff. Post by HelliosGet him to show you where it says they can... If he can't tough... if he still plays it when he hasn't proved it start taking a 2+ save against every glance and pen on your vehicles and ask him to show you where it says you can't. Couldn't have said it better myself. Except I would go further and say that every model in your army has a 2++ save... Fight stupid with stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 If your friend wants to put his beasts and cavalry in the upper levels he's going to have to point out to you where in the rules it specifically states that he may do so. Well he can put them there (during deployment), they just cannot get down afterward No you may not deploy them there. BRB FAQ "Q: Can a unit deploy in impassable terrain? (p92) A: Not unless it is specifically allowed to move through impassable terrain." Except ruins aren't Impassible Terrain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 correct, just because a model cannot move up a ruin does not make the ruin impassible for that model, it is still a ruin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Right I think I have gotten him to see the correctness of what I was saying after a Huge Email to GW and having a reply that states what I said to be in fact right However I can see myself being called a Rule Nazi for doing so. So I may have to just start solely gaming at the Local Club. So I would say case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Nah, man. Hang in there. Nothing wrong with healthy debate leading to a better and more consistent interpretation of the rules. You should have earned some small respect too. After all, you were not seeking advantage, you were correctly addressing an issue where someone was seeking advantage over others. You are a champion of justice! Be cool and brazen... "Well, looks like my work here is done... I'll show you how to play correctly even more next time! peace out!" *mumbles* "Nonono... no need to thank me friends, it was my pleasure!" Dude, you're not a rule nazi (foul term), you're an upstanding, forthright kiwi! Stay tall and confident, bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 If your friend wants to put his beasts and cavalry in the upper levels he's going to have to point out to you where in the rules it specifically states that he may do so. Well he can put them there (during deployment), they just cannot get down afterward No you may not deploy them there. BRB FAQ "Q: Can a unit deploy in impassable terrain? (p92) A: Not unless it is specifically allowed to move through impassable terrain." Except ruins aren't Impassible Terrain... They are for beasts & Cavalry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Except ruins aren't Impassible Terrain... They are for beasts & Cavalry. TERRAIN TYPES• Clear terrain can be moved across without any penalty. and generally covers most of the battlefield. • Difficult terrain slows down models wishing to move through it, and can sometimes be dangerous to models passing through it. • Impassable terrain cannot be moved across or into. GUIDELINES ON CATEGORISING TERRAINIt is a relatively simple matter to classify terrain within these four categories, and it is important that you and your opponent agree what class of terrain each feature falls into before starting your game. {snip} • Impassable terrain includes deep water, lava flows, steep rocky cliffs and buildings that models cannot enter, as agreed with your opponent. Remember that other models, friends and enemies, also count as impassable terrain. IMPASSABLE TERRAINModels may not be placed in impassable terrain unless the models concerned have a special rule in their profile granting them an exception (like being able to fly above the terrain) or both players agreeto it. DEFINE THE TERRAINBefore continuing, you should agree with your opponent how to define each piece of terrain you are using (see pages 13 and 77 for more details). This doesn' t take more than a few minutes, but it is important to do before the battle starts - otherwise it has a tendency to cause confusion and arguments in the middle of the game. Of course if you are playing with your usual adversary on the same terrain that you always do, this will be as simple as saying "Just like last time, okay?" However with a less familiar opponent, or if you are playing over some new terrain, remember to clarify the following: • Which terrain pieces are area terrain , difficult terrain or dangerous terrain (or a combination)? • Which terrain pieces are impassable terrain ? • Which terrain pieces are ruins? • What cover saves do different terrain pieces confer? • Which building s are impassable? • What are the Armour Values, fire points, access points and capacity for any building. All these quotes discuss Impassible Terrain in the context that all models are affected by it equally and the area of terrain is Impassible to all model types. Can you give me a quote or page reference where the BRB states that an area of terrain that is "impassible" to a specific unit type 'counts as' Impassible Terrain for that unit type? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 In addition beasts can move through ruins just not up them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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