Grey Knight mk.II Fluff discussion

[Vindicatus]

To keep some semblence of sense what with the rumours of the codex, let it be known that this thread is created for the discussion of FLUFF, BACKSTORY, AND RUMOURS THEREOF ONLY. Keep that stuff here, rules discussions in the other thread, and keep it civil.

 

So far :

 

Crowe and the mysterious weapon he holds.

 

Mordrack's traumatization in his earlier career (which is really shakey, since there is only the briefest of mentions).

 

Gene seed origination (supposedly) from a Traitor Legion.

 

New topics and oddities will be updated as time goes on, or as other material surfaces to confirm or deny.

 

Discuss and quantify!

[Inache]

Well considering that in Garro: Oath of Moment we learned that Malcador empowered Garro to seek out the most loyal and noble Astartes from each chapter the fact that the Grey Knights could possibly be formed from an amalgamation of all 18 Legions isn't too far fetched. In fact if you go off the assumption that the Primarchs were created from the Emperor's gene stock and then their Legions created from their gene stock, that a combination of all 18 would be the closest that Astartes can come to being straight from the Emperor without actually being from him directly.

 

As far as Mordrack goes, even if ones faith in the Emperor is absolute it doesn't mean that losing all your brothers on the field of battle won't be painful. In fact that he rose to the rank of Grand Master proves that his faith is unshakable, but at the same time he remembers the brothers that gave their lives for His holy cause. The fact that their spirits aid him in the course of battle only serves to further expound how important he is since it's obviously by His will that the spirits of fallen Grey Knights continue to safe guard the Imperium of Man.

 

Crowe is the Lord Castlean of Titan. He is entrusted with the seat of opposition to the daemonic. As such he's responsible for all the captured relics of the arch enemy. What better place to leave a weapon as power and malevolent than in the sole custodianship of the man who is beyond its touch. A weapon that is so powerful and evil that left alone it might be able to reach out and corrupt a menial on Titan. Crowe is the only person that can keep such a weapon in check until such time as it can be banished for all time.

 

 

Those are my opinions and I'm sticking to them. :)

 

Edit:

A post on Heresy-online from Katie Drake says that Crowe wields the sword because "One Grey Knight uses a Daemon Sword because so far it has been impossible to destroy and the Knights won't risk it being found by another follower of the Dark Gods. He doesn't actually draw upon its power though, he simply uses it like one would a mundane sword and refuses its temptations." Just thought I'd share.

 

Booyah! Without prior knowledge totally nailed it. :o

[Doomaflatchi]

So... the safest place in the galaxy to keep a sword away from the hands of daemons and heretics is in the hands of a man who charges into their midst on a daily basis? >_>

 

Grand Master: Where shall we keep this evil, accursed sword so that the servants of Chaos can never hold it?

Crowe: In their gut, I think... yeah, that'll do nicely.

Grand Master: You... you want to stab them with it?

Crowe: Or cut off their hands. That would keep them from wielding it, right?

[Inache]

It makes as much sense as hundreds of other Astartes chapters taking priceless holy relics onto the field of battle as well. Faith that the Emperor won't allow that to happen.

[Vindicatus]

Going to have to disagree with you there, Inache.

 

An Astartes chapter bringing forth holy relics onto the field of battle is generally done for two reasons :

 

1. Whoever it belonged to previously is venerated by being brought to war long after they have passed, showing honour to them in what they gave and the sacrifice laid down.

 

2. Holy relics (much like the battle standard) serve as a beacon of pride, of hope for the troops to fixate on. Having faith in something is a powerful motivator to greater success. Imagine yourself surrounded and about to be beaten into the floor, imagine how you'd fight back. Desparate, right? Think now that you are guarding the one thing that you hold in highest esteem, that the worth of it is well beyond your own life. Imagine that these things want to take it from you. How much harder are you going to fight when something so precious to you is suddenly put in danger?

 

The idea of 'merely holding on to' a daemon weapon because it would corrupt anyone else around it and using it as a mundane weapon is such a glaring cop out that it makes my head hurt.

 

Each and every Grey Knight is incorruptable; the sheer fact that they have faced countless horrors in the deeper, darker places of the galaxy and yet to have one slip is proof to that. Laying it under guard deep in Titan is no different than holding the Black Library within it's vaults, whose words would make eyes pop from skulls and send lesser folk chittering into the night.

 

There are plenty of ways to advance the storyline of, or polish the backstory to the Grey Knights that don't involve making them the very antithesis of what they stood for.

[Marmande]

Haters gon' hate, Vindy. :tu:

[Inache]

I'm with you on the Grey Knights being incorruptible and they should stay that way or I will lose my mind. At the same time, we don't know the fluff yet. As it stands maybe this thing can't stay in the Sol system. What if it is just that malignant? That maybe it doesn't corrupt people so much as it warps its surroundings, like its sole purpose is to weaken the barrier between the warp and reality. Having that on Titan, just a few million miles away from Terra would be no good, having it constantly on the move with a guardian so it can't cause damage by remaining in one place makes more sense.

[Inquisitor Fox]

The other thought is this: We can be sure the forces of Chaos want it back, so will go looking for it. Would it be better than in a vault protected by random fellows, or in the hands of those best suited to defend it? Since the Grey Knights still want to be active and go out and about as needed, they may as well take it with them to defend it on the road so to speak.

 

I'm not saying it'd be my favorite piece of fluff.. but I can see reasons for either path (lock it up, or take it with us).

[- 7eAL -]

Haters gon' hate, Vindy. :D

Haters might hate, but I'm with Vindicatus on this. Unusual strengths and abilities that are acquired as an involuntary side effect of fighting Daemons, especially those of higher rank that can provide a boon or that exist under a geis, I can accept. Voluntary choices to wield sorcerous or Daemonic weapons and abilities, however, I cannot.

 

On Titan, sealed in a vault amongst other similar items and regularly monitored by 'Librarians', Inquisitors and Masters, I would assume that such a weapon would be under constant guard. On the battlefield, it is entirely possible for the weapon to be lost or for its wielder to be isolated. So long as such an item is on the move, seeing use, and generally participating in change, Tzeentch is a particularly insidious threat, as he can likely manipulate precisely this dangerous situation without ever becoming directly involved with the participants or with the Grey Knights.

[Gentlemanloser]

Give the Sword to a Sensei? :(

[Eddie Orlock]

Give the Sword to a Sensei? :P

No, no, no, the only answer is to give him a second cursed blade from a rival cult and have the two reach a stalemate in the battle for the knights soul just like Kenzo.

[DinoDoc]

Give the Sword to a Sensei? :P

The Exorcists chapter?

[Inache]

All I know is that if Matt Ward manages to feth something up, AD-B will hopefully save us. I know I'll be setting aside a few of each models in anticipation of modeling the characters from the book.

[Valerian]

From the Ordo Malleus Daemonhunter's entry in Slaves to Darkness, which contained the very first Grey Knights army list:

 

Any Daemon Weapons which are taken from fallen servants of Chaos are given over to the keeping of the Ordo Malleus. Those outside of the Ordo who are unlucky enough to know of the weapon's existence are executed. In turn the Ordo carefully study the blades in their keep, and use some of them against Chaos.

 

Yeah, I'm not too bothered by Castellan Crowe wielding the Blade of Antywr.

 

 

Laying it under guard deep in Titan is no different than holding the Black Library within it's vaults, whose words would make eyes pop from skulls and send lesser folk chittering into the night.

 

Vindicatus, it is the Librarium Daemonica; the Black Library is within the Eldar webway, not on Titan.

 

 

Valerian

[Vindicatus]

Same difference in my mind, really. Many of my comments are made at times when coffee is in short supply.

 

And I find myself EXCEEDINGLY bothered by the fact that weapons of daemonic nature are used by people meant to send them shrieking in flames just by standing too close. I'd think that such a weapon would either melt itself, explode, or try to rip itself out of the wielder's hand.

 

Would that we could figure out how to bind the essence of a Saint into a weapon and start gibbing daemons.

[Angelust]

Maybe the fluff will end up establishing that Crowe is on a journey/crusade to go and destroy it in the far reaches of the Universe, kind of like Frodo and the ring.

 

I'd be happy if he was traveling through the Eye of Terror to go and melt it in some volcano somewhere...

[AlexHolker]

Looking at the leaked info:

 

Mordrak is stealing the Sisters' Avenging Angels from Dawn of War, replacing Faith in the most powerful psyker in the galaxy with his own accidental power.

Stern is a liability who should have been shot the first time he "banished" a mortal or another Grey Knight.

Crowe is a member of the Grey Knights (not a Radical Inquisitor), that wields a daemon weapon in battle. "He does not draw upon its powers, relying only on its physical properties and his own skill at arms." Sure. I bet you didn't inhale either.

Thawn is also stealing from the Sisters, this time for being a Grey Knight Living Saint.

And Draigo carved his predecessor's name in Mortarion's heart. In a throwaway line. And he's thriving in the Warp without the aid of a Gellar field.

 

So between "Grey Knights who should have been executed by their peers" and "Matt Ward's characters are the super-specialest of them all", I hate every single one of them.

 

As it stands maybe this thing can't stay in the Sol system. What if it is just that malignant? That maybe it doesn't corrupt people so much as it warps its surroundings, like its sole purpose is to weaken the barrier between the warp and reality. Having that on Titan, just a few million miles away from Terra would be no good, having it constantly on the move with a guardian so it can't cause damage by remaining in one place makes more sense.

It does not. Even if you had been correct, it's a Voodoo Shark: to justify one of the ultrapuritan Grey Knights wielding a daemon weapon in battle, you propose another damn DMPC warp artifact like the one that ran Dark Apostle into the ground.

[Zeratil]

Yup, Matt's made some pretty special characters there. I was more interested in the stuff under the entries for the Grand Masters and the Inquisition though.

 

1.) "Grand masters hold responsiblity for maintaining the Chapter's many alliances, whether with other organisations within the Imperium, or the various alien races with which the Grey Knights have covert dealings."

 

Wait, we're trucking with Xenos now?

 

2.) "As the Inquisitions chamber militant...should an inquisitor encounter a threat beyond his own means, daemonic or otherwise, the Grey Knights are his first recourse."

 

So the Deathwatch and the Sororitas are what now?

 

Edit 1: Re: Stern - Yeah, he's a special guy - charges the muffin table in the GK cafeteria and banishes ten of his battle brothers into the horrors of the warp. Although apparently they will just continue to kick ass and take names there. Now I'm all for GKs being awesome, but wandering around in the warp for centuries with broken armour and weaponry chinning hordes of daemons...*sigh*. I might accept a primarch doing something like that, but anything less than that? leave.

[Vindicatus]

As of this moment, after reading this, glancing at the various workings through the new codex, and seeing the fluff repeatedly turn up terribad, I am now seriously considering shelving my DH army until someone un-f's Ward's 'works'.

 

GW has made this a great, great disappointment by debasing this army to the point it is currently. Just.....wow.

[Espada Azul]

A brief browse through the leaked 'playtest' Codex made me shake my head. Oh wow, Matt Ward, I had thought what had happened to the Blood Angels was ridiculous, but now... This is just OTT piled upon yet even more OTT. Stat inflation my foot (I see a lot of 7s and 8s that would make Phoenix Lords green with envy), the anime-style shonen-esque battle between Sanguinor and Ka'Bandha has NOTHING on some of the stuff here.

 

Like, oh, Initiates disappearing without a trace, DA Inner Circle/Deathwing style, if they fail the tests of the Purifiers.

 

Or the Six Quests a Battle Brother has to overcome to even become a Paladin.

 

Or having a Champion run around with one of the most dangerous Daemon Weapons imaginable.

 

The one with Draigo was particularly hilarious. Survives not only days, but CENTURIES in the Warp. And your run-of-the-mill Daemons RUN AWAY FROM HIM on sight.

[jamsight]

I haven't read the Fluff just the rumours on BoLS and here and I think your being a bit hasty laying

into Matt Ward over how he's chosen to create the special characters I don't think GW are daft enough to make their holy paladin order who is all about purity into being Xeno collaboratives and whatnot but that said there was always a grey area with the Jobs (can't spell responabilties) of the Grand Masters. I just thought they were all about just killing the daemons and left the politics to the Inquisition, But if we have a Grand master with a daemon weopen then they better have a dam good reason not just because it is a cool idea because it isn't.

 

In danger of rambling if not already <_< so I'll leave it there

[Vindicatus]

Considering the fustercluck Ward made of the Blood Angels codex, and how he just seems to want to worship the Ultramarines to the point of it being borderline retarded, I think each and every person who has a stake in this has the right to sit with their jaw kicking around on the floor because of how hard it just dropped.

 

I have absolutely no issues with someone laying into a flake like Ward, when there is true, ACTUAL talent (AD-B, anyone?) capable of writing something that doesn't reek of "Oh yeah? Well my guys are more bad-ass than your guys /unzip."

[TheReclusiarch]

"And Draigo carved his predecessor's name in Mortarion's heart. In a throwaway line. And he's thriving in the Warp without the aid of a Gellar field."

 

That sounds absolutely awesome! More of that, please! :lol:

[Logan230]

"And Draigo carved his predecessor's name in Mortarion's heart. In a throwaway line. And he's thriving in the Warp without the aid of a Gellar field."

 

That sounds absolutely awesome! More of that, please! :tu:

 

I hope you are being sarcastic. A Marine carving ANYTHING on a primarch's ANYTHING? Thats just ridiculous! Damn Ward.

[Gentlemanloser]

Draigo's "I WIN!" aside, I actually really like Mordrak and his fluff.

 

Also, hope aobut talking aobut the immortal Thrawn. I think it's implied he's lived for a very, very, long time so far (in which case his stats are a bit, rubbish! ^_^ And never made it past Justicar? Even Stern got past that!).

 

Edit:

 

I saw mention of a noted 'original' Grey Knight Grandmaster. Janus.