obs0l3te Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I've been playing a few BFG games of late, and just bought a new Chaos fleet... But I've been playing with the Segmentum Solar/Armageddon list prior. Most of the posts i've seen people use STRAIGHT IN or SM fleets why is this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222529-segmentum-solar-armageddon-sector-fleet-list/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 my guess is the cost involved in having to buy 2 seperate fleets. same as with 40k you generally buy/play 1 army at a time :rolleyes: also a pure space marine or a pure IN fleet is much easier to keep track off. with mixed fleets you have to keep in mind which vessels are space marine vessels which arent, etc. thats not to say you cant combine lists though. its just more hassle :D my take on it at least :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222529-segmentum-solar-armageddon-sector-fleet-list/#findComment-2661128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
obs0l3te Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 Well I was thinking.... Master Of Fleet 3 Rerolls Battle Barge (Insert Space Wolf Name here) 3X Strike Cruisers (Insert Space Wolves names here) 3x Nova (Insert Space Wolves names here) 3x Hunter (Insert Space Wolves Names here) 1x Gothic (Ship fought with Space Wolves in the Armageddon Wars, was destroyed wolves refitted it in honor of the Ships Captain) 2x Gladius (Insert Space Wolf Name here) Comes out at 1500 points. According to the list you dont' pay any extra for the Gothic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222529-segmentum-solar-armageddon-sector-fleet-list/#findComment-2661157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 i meant real life costs, as in money indeed you dont pay any additional costs for the vessels. 2 gladius frigates might not be that much use m8. only 1 needs to die for the squadron to be "crippled" and even full strength they wont do anything stellar. they might strip shields for the gothic and/or novas to fire thugh which does have some merrit. speaking of which, may i ask why the single gothic? the only reason that i can see is "to have a lace-boat in my fleet" which is a thing that space marines lack to be sure. if its on its own however its an easy target for your opponent to take out. grouping it with a dominator or tyrant for some battery back up would seriously increase its usefullness. that said i can see where youd have difficulties finding points to take anything out of your list and cant really comment much on that either... perhasp the veterans can help you more on this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222529-segmentum-solar-armageddon-sector-fleet-list/#findComment-2661410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
obs0l3te Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 Hmm yeah I could drop them and a SC and pic up a dominator or a lunar? I have access to all the imperial ships. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222529-segmentum-solar-armageddon-sector-fleet-list/#findComment-2661505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 well if your hell bent on taking a second cruiser theres a few things you can do: *2 lunars, 12 weapon battery to each side and 4 lances to each side, 6 torpedoes each. very nice all-rounder and would add a nice punch to a marine fleet. can also upgrade to a nova cannon if you wish. also the cheapest option to take (except when you want a nova cannon though, then the dominator is cheaper) *upgraded tyrant (or not) and a gothic. 10 weapon batteries on each side, 4 lances each side and 6 torpedoes each. these suffer abit if one (or both) get crippled, since all specific weapons are stuck 1 particular ship the lances are easily taken out (and eldar might take the tyrant out asap) other then that a nice combo, the ships compliment eachother well :lol: *gothic and dominator. dominator has strength 12 batteries on each side (which incidentily is the same as the 2 lunars and more then the upgraded tyrant) and the 4 lances from the gothic. the nova cannon from the dominator is somewhat lost on the space marine fleet as theyre designed to close rapidly, whilst the nova cannon has to hang back to be effective. its a very nice punch at range though (if you hit) firepower-wise all these combos are virtually identical. it depends on what kind of role you want your ships to fill in this list. the 2 lunars are however the most resistant to beeing crippled as their firepower is split evenly over the 2 ships. if you take a gothic and x ship and one becomes crippled you lost alot of firepower ;) mind you ive ignored the dictator for this list as you dident list it yourself. space marines got their own fighers and assault boats in thunderhawks. if you want though bombers are nothing to sneeze at either and could fill a niche as well. just...even harder to pair up with another cruiser then those listed above here :;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222529-segmentum-solar-armageddon-sector-fleet-list/#findComment-2661718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 The reason so few mixed IN and SM fleets are seen is that you typically field a stronger fleet going all one or the other. If you look at IN, you can take a dauntless which is a rough equivalent of the SC for 35 points less than a Strike Cruiser which is the only Marine cruiser choice. Gaining access to the 6+ armor and Thunderhawks doesn't offset that you still have a light cruiser that's nearly as expensive as a full IN cruiser. Now there could be more argument for including the battlebarge in the fleet, but access to the Emperor means that it's far more efficient to just take that and leave the BB at home. I think the theory behind the fleet was to offset the drawbacks of the mixed fleet by allowing easier access to the higher firepower of the Armageddon and other CB's while taking more of the Strike Cruisers and the Endeavour class CL. In theory, at least, you get one CB for every cruiser and if you take a large number of CL or SC you should have a pretty solid firebase. In practice I don't think that quite works out. For instance, lets look at a primarily SC fleet backed up by CB. Since you will have a fair number of AC from SC, we can drop the usual emperor and try the Oberon. I'll be using the FAQ 2010 points for the ships. Oberon+ AB: 340 Armageddon: 235 Armageddon: 235 Armageddon: 235 Strike Cruiser: 145 Strike Cruiser: 145 Endeavour: 110 Admiral: 50 So what do we gain from this. We have the necessary 8AC and four of that is in resilient thunderhawks. Unfortunately, that leaves us with a squadron of 2 SC and we just don't have the points to fit in a third. That leaves us with a fairly weak 2x SC squadron and the odd man out with the Endeavour which I guess could sit with the CB's since it can't squadron with SC. Since we can't really max out too much on CB if we take a BB, we have to adjust down to this: Oberon+ AB: 340 Armageddon: 235 Armageddon: 235 Tyrant+Range: 195 Strike Cruiser: 145 Strike Cruiser: 145 Strike Cruiser: 145 Admiral: 50 So basically taking a BB and mixing in SC, we effectively end up back with the 2:1 ratio for cruisers to CB and we don't really gain a whole lot compared to a traditional IN or Marine list. So what happens if you ignore the battleship? It sure frees up points but is it really enough to do anything different? Armageddon: 235 Armageddon: 235 Armageddon: 235 Tyrant+Range: 195 Strike Cruiser: 145 Strike Cruiser: 145 Strike Cruiser: 145 Endeavour: 110 Admiral 50 That almost nets the 1:1 ratio but we still have to drop an Armageddon and a SC to fit it all in 1500 points so we are a bit low on AC and we've got NO bombers so again it's not a very solid list compared to either a traditional Marine fleet or an IN fleet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222529-segmentum-solar-armageddon-sector-fleet-list/#findComment-2661769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
obs0l3te Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 Was excited there for a moment.. then realized i'm limited to Mars, Armageddon, Lunar, Tyrant, gothic, and Dictator. and endeavour, endurance and defiant. Those are the only cruisers the list allows. it can take every escort. I may try the gothic/lunar combo out.. or duel gothics. edit... Vaasih just posted after I wrote... Both of those are real nice to... I may have to try one of them out as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222529-segmentum-solar-armageddon-sector-fleet-list/#findComment-2661779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
obs0l3te Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 So I managed to screw around with the list a little... and did this... BattleBarge 3x SC 2X Gothic 3x Nova 4 rerolls I'm going to grab myself 2 Rogue Trader Ships and make them into gothics I think so my marines will look different from my imperial fleet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222529-segmentum-solar-armageddon-sector-fleet-list/#findComment-2663481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I really wouldn't recommend going this route. The marine fleet lives on its escorts and the IN fleet lives on keeping formation. What you have there is a mismash of the most expensive marine escort, too few IN ships to form the line, and far too many rerolls. You have too few SC that you can afford to lose any to casualties which leave you bracing since SC are pretty easy to damage and your escort squadron is a too small for a marine fleet plus it really doesn't give much in return for the 150 points you are spending on it. Gothics aren't a bad choice, but why not take armageddons instead? At least then you get some battery support and your lances get boosted out to 45cm and 60cm. Battlebarge 2x Armageddon 3x Strike Cruiser 3x Hunter MOTF It's still not what I'd call an awesome fleet, but at least it makes better use of your points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222529-segmentum-solar-armageddon-sector-fleet-list/#findComment-2663529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
obs0l3te Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 I think i have to have 2 or three cruisers per Armageddon... so I can't use 2 armageddons with only 3 strike cruisers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222529-segmentum-solar-armageddon-sector-fleet-list/#findComment-2664807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 The Armageddon list ratio of CA to CB is 1:1 instead of the normal 2:1, so, yes, what I posted is a legal list. The only time you have to take anything in a 3:1 ratio is if you are pulling a ship in via reserves. I'd suggest rereading the list rules on page 27 of armada. The only thing I've done different is use the new point values in the 2010 FAQ draft for the Armageddon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222529-segmentum-solar-armageddon-sector-fleet-list/#findComment-2664833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
obs0l3te Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 ah missed that :lol: thanks! i'll try that out ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222529-segmentum-solar-armageddon-sector-fleet-list/#findComment-2666151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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