Lame Duck

[Galacticz]

So I have really been contemplating on Dante of late, and no matter which way I cut it... He just seems too fragile. One must shield him in a thick mob of Assault Marines or Sanguine Guard to make sure he survives heavy weapons fire, and even then, a standard Demolition Cannon could spell demise for himself and the entirety of his squad...

 

225pts for a str 4 Power Weapon attack, 4 toughness, and a 2+/4++ save?

 

I really like Dante, but its hard to justify using him when so many things can simply drop him just like 'that', and he can't hack himself even through a feeble trukk.

 

Please prove my thoughts wrong...

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Take the Sanguinor or McFiston if Dante isn't working out for ya.

 

G :jaw:

[BigBaals]

Astorath hits just as hard to me, and he's a force multiplier. Plus the squad he's with re-roll hits. 5 points cheaper too. Only thing Dante does for me is not scatter.. we don't scatter more than 6" anyway. Just takes practice. I burned out on Dante in the Dante/Corbs bubble days.

[Gv0zD]

I like him for Precision Strike (no scatter when deepstriking) and Hit and Run. Plus with him you can take SangGuard as Troops, so you have slots left for Furiosos and SangPriests. He's not that good in combat, but that's no the desired role for him. If you want a tough and hard-hitting special character, take Sanguinor or Mepho, just like BO said.

[Leonaides]

to OP- then you're using him wrong. Sorry he doesnt have EW, S6 or millions of wounds... He's plenty tough enough, with lots of reasons to take him. Unfortunately, i dont have time to give you a 101 essay on how to make him work. He's not an 'i win' button, so you'll have to think about it a bit harder...

[Morticon]

The biggest issue that BA captains (and I guess Chapter heads) have is that they do very little for the rest of the army.

 

This is why people are reluctant to take them.

 

Reclusiarchs get a power weapon and INV, make a squad fearless and give rerolls.

Librarians give you a hood, can buff a squad or be a tactical piece- and has a PW.

 

Captains are just horribly overpriced for the little they help the rest of the army.

So you have WS6? And?

 

I believe there are only two places where GW dropped the ball with our dex- one is the DC jump pack price and two is the relative lack of incentive to take a captain.

 

Seth is a great example of good design - 160 points - relatively cheap and kicks ass. Not broken amounts, but hes solid.

Tycho is not bad either- AND gives rights of battle.

 

Dante however, like the Captains just doesnt do anything else.

 

However, that being said hes no lame duck.

Great WS, great amount of attacks and some extra quirks too (Death Mask, no scatter and hit and run).

 

We need to play to those strengths.

Dante works well in an army that uses a few jump marines. Jump Priest, 10man RAS - really, really beneficial.

Like any other jumping IC- he needs support. Why would you ever field a jumpy IC without a decent bodyguard?

 

You gotta stop playing him like a Mephy/Sanguinor character and think of him as an uber upgrade to a squad.

That being said, 225 is a helluva dent in your total list for that.

[RedMoon]

just look at his initiative and a great weapon skill. put him in a squad with a priest then he is strength 5 ini 9 on the charge and bless his heart if you have a librarian in there with unleash rage and might of heros he can have a CRAP tone of str 5 hits on the charge thats nothing to skoff at.

 

just look at his initiative and a great weapon skill. put him in a squad with a priest then he is strength 5 ini 9 on the charge and bless his heart if you have a librarian in there with unleash rage and might of heros he can have a CRAP tone of str 5 hits on the charge thats nothing to skoff at.

[Morollan]

just look at his initiative and a great weapon skill. put him in a squad with a priest then he is strength 5 ini 9 on the charge and bless his heart if you have a librarian in there with unleash rage and might of heros he can have a CRAP tone of str 5 hits on the charge thats nothing to skoff at.

 

Granted but then you also just added 200 points to his cost and used another HQ and Elite slot in order to make him worthwhile.

 

I've given up using him these days. Whilst I love his special rules and the model I converted for him I simply cannot justify spending that amount of points on a character who will, on average, kill 2-3 MEQ on the charge! Not when there's stuff like Mephiston, Sanguinor, Astorath etc available for the same or fewer points.

[Israfel]

Dante is a chapter master and no chapter master should thread alone, everything is possible on a battlefield thus he needs bodyguards. That being said Dante is a precision tool not an adamantium hammer that you can swing to all and any targets. He is not very resilient but he is good at dishing out a lot of attacks. With precision strike you can land anywhere you want. This does not have to be in front of the opponents uber deathstar unit, it might very well be behind enemy lines next to its feeble troops. Once you hit them you`re game on, both for objective and kill point missions. Hit and run is good for leaving any unwanted combat situations and making SG troop is nothing to sniff at. Those buggers are potent assault units which become scoring all of a sudden.

 

Then again, all the synergy that may be bestowed by Dante comes with a heavy price tag thus I would not recommend him in games less than 1750 pts. He is not an auto include but if you craft your list to play to his strengths he puts down a very good show :o

[vahouth]

People seem to forget his ability to nerf enemy HQs.

I don't know about you, but that alone justifies taking him IMO...

[Morollan]

People seem to forget his ability to nerf enemy HQs.

I don't know about you, but that alone justifies taking him IMO...

 

Unfortunately you then need to send someone else to take care of the nerfed HQ cos Dante doesn't stand a chance of killing it himself, especially if it's high Toughness.

 

DANTE: Sanguinius has cast his baleful glare on the vile Swarmlord. He is now weakened by the righteous anger of our Primarch. Erm...Mr Chaplain, would you mind awfully nipping over there and giving him a smack for me please?"

[vahouth]

Don't underestimate Dante.

I know he is not Mephiston, but he is still pretty good notheless.

If he drops near the Swarmlord with his posse full of meltas, that nerfed Swarmlord is as good as dead. :D

[shatter]

2+4++

infernus pistol

MC PW

JP

 

yahh... fairly normal equipment for a (fluffy BA) captain/master. with his stats, it's like 150 points worth. Give or take.

What's truly notable is his 6 initiative. (6, not 8 btw, for the above posts)

6 means he's better for those points than others... ergo, he's worth something more than 150.

 

then you get to his special rules.

 

Death mask effect - this is worth 25 points according to the sanguard entry

 

Death mask of Sanguinius gimp - this is worth, depending on the enemy IC chosen, around 25 points. More versus some based on a percentage of change affected by a target. Do it to a 2 wound libby and the opponent will be leery of using it even once... which could be said to be worth more than 25.

 

H&R - this is somewhat difficult to calculate as it depends on who he gets out of combat in any game. In my list, he has got 900-odd points worth of termies, priests and ICs out of combat, free moved and multi-assaulted an entire enemy army, destroying it. From a crude point of view, he doubled those points. So, in that extreme, the H&R was worth approx 900+points. If he doesn't do it all game, it's worth 0. Most units with him are, at the point of H&R about 3-4 models. If that indicated an average of 0 to say 120 points, H&R could be said to be conservatively worth around 30.

 

DoA what, 5 points? It doesn't matter as it's army-wide on JP DS. Being able to land wherever you want? Again, it depends on the value of the attached squad... and dante. Maybe, as it guarantees his melta range, it's worth at least the difference in cost of infernus & meltaguns/MM... or 5-10 points per melta shot. So, in a common or garden squad, it's worth 10+... just for the shoot phase. Seeing as it can place a priest bubble exactly where you want, the increase in value is massive, depending on the qty of troops he DS's near... again incalculable. So, I say this, for a DoA army, is the most important.. and no wonder he costs a lot. I'd say this ability is worth from 5-80 points depending on circumstance, so I'll give it a 40.

 

Adding those up, we get

 

around... 270... and to be frank, I wasn't particularly accurate regarding the costs. I think I was approximate and conservative. If you see within some of those abilities a way of getting more value from him, then he's worth more (to your list).

 

Then there's Master of the Host. That's only worth something if you use Sanguard. The value is impossible for me to calculate really as it's not comparable to regular BA SCs.

[Mezkh]

Dante is great.

 

Don't get why people focus on the whole no-deepstrike scatter thing, it's nice but it's not exactly the standout special rule he has.

 

In an army that relies on units that kick ass on the charge, Hit and run is the far more impressive ability.

 

And oh you have an badass HQ that eats Marines for breakfast? Well he's decidely meh now, enjoy the points you wasted on him/her/it.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Run a pure SG army long enough and you tend to learn Dante a bit better. He's not an "I win" button but if you want that then ebay 2nd ed and go play hero hammer tbh.

 

He's a good CC character who really shine sinside an SG squad with chapter banner. Play him cool, play him subtle and you can violate the enemy in places no PW was designed to go.

[Corby]

I like the idea of dante deepstriking with 10 assault terminators. Kind of like Shriike infiltrating with 10 termies , woefully ineffective , but makes for a great laugh in a friendly game.

[SamaNagol]

He is.... not really well designed. It's like they had an idea for him but it wasn't in any way synergistic with the rest of the army. No idea why they got rid of his Preferred Enemy bubble

[BOBMAKENZIE]

The only reason I dont like Dante is cause his Mask Character "get off my lawn!" thing doesnt effect anything but ICs. theres just too many books out there these days with non IC HQs.

 

Ex:

Mephiston, Sanguinor, DC Tycho

Daemon Prince, Greater Daemon

Greater Daemon, (Maybe things on Chariots?)

hive Tyrants

IG command Squads (I mean really?)

Avatar

 

If the Sanguinor's ability only effected ICs, or if Dantes just affected a Character I would be happy with it. But as it stands it just makes me die alittle on the inside everytime I face someone where they are like "pfft No ICs here lolz"

[Corby]

He is.... not really well designed. It's like they had an idea for him but it wasn't in any way synergistic with the rest of the army. No idea why they got rid of his Preferred Enemy bubble

 

The old preffered enemy bubble was awesome ontop of Corbulo's old feel no pain bubble , I know I should be thankfully for our new codex , but I do miss the old pdf codex sometimes.

[TrentL]

I like Dante, I find his ability to land his tooled up Honor Guard wherever I need it most helpful for giving the Noviate's Bubble to help out things like VV or RAS that don't have a priest.

 

As well his H&R ability has done wonders to me I've used it to tie up a large shooty unit not fully kill it off, break off and charge again, I like the ability to stay locked in combat during my opponents turn so I don't get shot at, break out, and attack a squad I'd prefer to attack or lock myself in combat not to get shot again.

 

I think too often now people are expecting Chapter Masters to be these giant hulking CC monsters who can just wade in and create death everywhere... but I don't see BA being like that sure we have Mephy or the Sanguinator... nothing wrong with them but Dante is exactly what he should be he's a scaple like so much of the BA list you have to use him with brains and he'll carve out a nice hole for you...

 

Where Mephy is a hammer you just point and hope it squishes as much as you need it to.

[TrentL]

I like Dante, I find his ability to land his tooled up Honor Guard wherever I need it most helpful for giving the Noviate's Bubble to help out things like VV or RAS that don't have a priest.

 

As well his H&R ability has done wonders to me I've used it to tie up a large shooty unit not fully kill it off, break off and charge again, I like the ability to stay locked in combat during my opponents turn so I don't get shot at, break out, and attack a squad I'd prefer to attack or lock myself in combat not to get shot again.

 

I think too often now people are expecting Chapter Masters to be these giant hulking CC monsters who can just wade in and create death everywhere... but I don't see BA being like that sure we have Mephy or the Sanguinator... nothing wrong with them but Dante is exactly what he should be he's a scaple like so much of the BA list you have to use him with brains and he'll carve out a nice hole for you...

 

Where Mephy is a hammer you just point and hope it squishes as much as you need it to.

[Ranwulf]

Dante

Honour Guard-With 4 Plasmaguns and 4 LC

 

What do you get with this?

A squad that can Deepstrike perfectly, kill the enemy commander(like a DP), and destroying MANY tactics.

 

Dante is not a heavy hitter, he is a HITTER, but a Tactical one.

8 Shots of Plasma and 1 of Melta can be the horror to anyone.

 

Ran

[Corby]

Dante

Honour Guard-With 4 Plasmaguns and 4 LC

 

What do you get with this?

A squad that can Deepstrike perfectly, kill the enemy commander(like a DP), and destroying MANY tactics.

 

Dante is not a heavy hitter, he is a HITTER, but a Tactical one.

8 Shots of Plasma and 1 of Melta can be the horror to anyone.

 

Ran

 

Except the cost of that unit is horribly expensive.

 

 

I don't think the majority of Hq choices in peoples armies really "make" the army. Its about the correct synergy of units , if one character carries a list then the list itself is flawed. Dante is an effective hq choice with the correct synergy but reuires a large amount of your list to be built with him in mind to be effective.

[Gv0zD]

Except the cost of that unit is horribly expensive.

 

 

I don't think the majority of Hq choices in peoples armies really "make" the army. Its about the correct synergy of units , if one character carries a list then the list itself is flawed. Dante is an effective hq choice with the correct synergy but reuires a large amount of your list to be built with him in mind to be effective.

 

Either way you'll have to attach Dante to 230+ pts squad, be it Sanguinary Guard, the aforementioned HG (btw, Ran, I like the way you think :P), or 10-man RAS with a Priest.

And it doesn't require one to build a list around this unit. But this unit allows one to provide assistance to other units, be it leaving combat or striking melta/plasma squad where needed most. Deploy Dante with shooty HG, then attach him to Sanguinary Guard, do what you need where you need.

 

Dante provides tactical flexibility, as other posters already said. The initial question was about Dante's killiness/survivability. And from this point of view he kinda sucks. However it is a great unit, not some nobrainer that can crush anything and survive anything.

 

DANTE: Sanguinius has cast his baleful glare on the vile Swarmlord. He is now weakened by the righteous anger of our Primarch. Erm...Mr Chaplain, would you mind awfully nipping over there and giving him a smack for me please?"

 

Dante's appearance on battlefield weakened the Swarmlord, and so smart Mr. Chaplain quickly rushes to kill the bug. Kinda like this. :D

[Brother Nathan]

i think hes fine, i prefered him in the pdf though. now hes still good but we have other characters that help more. id prefer astro rules wise(fluff wise, well i run him as my chaptermaster...