VAGABOND Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 If Dante had Eternal Warrior then he'd be a good kick ass chapter master. He can take down most squads and can dish out a fair amount of damage on the charge with an attached Priest. I played against a Raven Guard player last week and he charged Shrike into combat with Dante and was ripped aoart in, maybe it was luck he can take out some IC. Tbh the guy did fail 3 invulnerable saves for Shirke with the Mask in effect. Master crafted jammyness anyone? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2661706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I realy like Dante, i just dont like the model. The char however grants my DoA army some amazing bonuses, im just glad we dont have any "musttakesuppakilla" characters (i dont include Meph because in my games he just doesnt survive all that long) - im only sad our captains are a little underpowered. But thats what Tycho/Astro is for i guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2661727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soups Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 2+4++infernus pistol MC PW JP wall of text around... 270... and to be frank, I wasn't particularly accurate regarding the costs. I think I was approximate and conservative. If you see within some of those abilities a way of getting more value from him, then he's worth more (to your list). Then there's Master of the Host. That's only worth something if you use Sanguard. The value is impossible for me to calculate really as it's not comparable to regular BA SCs. I did a stat comparison between the reclusiarch and chaplain, and figured that each stat upgrade, besides toughness, are 10 points. So I figure that is how Matt Ward goes about costing models, roughly. Captain stat line. WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 100 points Dante stat line. WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W4 I6 A4 225 points. Comparison: Dante-130 point captain stat wise Wargear: Infernus pistol 15, Artificer armor 15 (Codex:Space marines), MC Power weapon 15-20, JP 25 Comparison: Dante- 200 (depending how you look at MC power weapons costed as) So, if you take straight stat and standard wargear upgrades, he is a 200 point captain. Now add in his Facemask. Not that reliable, but lets call it 10 points. Hit and Run USR...10 points again. Precision strike. another 10 points. His independent character Nerf. Thats huge, as almost every army has one. It's like a free plasma gun wound. 15-20 points. turning other units into troops? well, in C:SM, captains do it for free, so no points there. Dante is at least a 245 point captain. He may not be a bargain like Mephiston or Astorath but to say he is a lame duck is like saying Death Company are lame ducks without building your list around it. He is a good choice, and no longer required like he was in 4th Ed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2661742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 jeske if you always put Dante up against the toughest units in 40k then sure he's going to have a rough go. The main point you've missed is Dante can arrive on the table wherever you need him. There are other units we have access to that are much better at fighting daemon princes and Archons... The Sanguinor and VV immediately come to mind. Dante is best used when attached to a unit such as Sanguinary Guard. They can tank hunt and take out units like tactical Marines no problem. Using your rock paper scissor analysis it's possible to make any unit look bad and often it does not accurately reflect actual gaming conditions as only a n00b is going to send their best units straight into death. G :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2661761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherMoses Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Dante is a sword when you are looking for a hammer. He's not something you swing about wildly to destroy foes. Dante bring tactical precision to the floor. He is to be used as such. Tactically. I liked the idea of putting him with a plasma honor guard. Tactical precision means the plasma can land where it wants, doubletap who it wants, and if assaulted leave when it wants. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2661762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Let's take a brief look at combined unit I proposed: Commander Dante Sanguinary Guard: 2x melter pistol, power fist & Chapter Banner Sanguinary Priest: power sword On the charge this unit throws down: Dante - 7 WS6 S5 attacks @ I7 (yep he is swinging simo or prior to most dark eldar units), plus he can reroll one failed hit Sanguinary Guard - 16 S5 attacks @ I5, plus each one can reroll one missed hit ---------------------- 4 S9 attacks that go last Sanguinary Priest - 5 WS5 S5 attacks That's a grand total of 32 high S attacks that ignore armor saves. That can take apart a lot of units and they are well worth the cost in my opinion. The whole squad has a 2+ armor save except the Priest. I don't think it's been mentioned yet but Dante has four wounds, the combined squad is mostly complex so you can use Dante to soak a few wounds. We all know just how deadly is this squad versus tanks with their three melter pistols combined with no scatter deepstrike. Sure they cost some points but why not take a squad of Sanguinary Guard when fielding Dante? It just makes good sense plus they are a fearless scoring unit to boot. It is what it is. G Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2661772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
prenelf Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Let's take a brief look at combined unit I proposed: Commander Dante Sanguinary Guard: 2x melter pistol, power fist & Chapter Banner Sanguinary Priest: power sword On the charge this unit throws down: Dante - 7 WS6 S5 attacks @ I7 (yep he is swinging simo or prior to most dark eldar units), plus he can reroll one failed hit Sanguinary Guard - 16 S5 attacks @ I5, plus each one can reroll one missed hit ---------------------- 4 S9 attacks that go last Sanguinary Priest - 5 WS5 S5 attacks That's a grand total of 32 high S attacks that ignore armor saves. That can take apart a lot of units and they are well worth the cost in my opinion. The whole squad has a 2+ armor save except the Priest. I don't think it's been mentioned yet but Dante has four wounds, the combined squad is mostly complex so you can use Dante to soak a few wounds. We all know just how deadly is this squad versus tanks with their three melter pistols combined with no scatter deepstrike. Sure they cost some points but why not take a squad of Sanguinary Guard when fielding Dante? It just makes good sense plus they are a fearless scoring unit to boot. It is what it is. G but wouldnt a chappy or a reclusiarch be much better in a unit like that? i think it would be better any way power weapon you can pick what gun re roll hits good stats 3+ save 4+ inv save fearless even if you dont need it for them i think its a much better option Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2661809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nax Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I like the idea of dante deepstriking with 10 assault terminators. Kind of like Shriike infiltrating with 10 termies , woefully ineffective , but makes for a great laugh in a friendly game. Tactical Precision requires jump packs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2661811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Let's take a brief look at combined unit I proposed: Commander Dante Sanguinary Guard: 2x melter pistol, power fist & Chapter Banner Sanguinary Priest: power sword On the charge this unit throws down: Dante - 7 WS6 S5 attacks @ I7 (yep he is swinging simo or prior to most dark eldar units), plus he can reroll one failed hit Sanguinary Guard - 16 S5 attacks @ I5, plus each one can reroll one missed hit ---------------------- 4 S9 attacks that go last Sanguinary Priest - 5 WS5 S5 attacks That's a grand total of 32 high S attacks that ignore armor saves. That can take apart a lot of units and they are well worth the cost in my opinion. The whole squad has a 2+ armor save except the Priest. I don't think it's been mentioned yet but Dante has four wounds, the combined squad is mostly complex so you can use Dante to soak a few wounds. We all know just how deadly is this squad versus tanks with their three melter pistols combined with no scatter deepstrike. Sure they cost some points but why not take a squad of Sanguinary Guard when fielding Dante? It just makes good sense plus they are a fearless scoring unit to boot. It is what it is. G but wouldnt a chappy or a reclusiarch be much better in a unit like that? i think it would be better any way power weapon you can pick what gun re roll hits good stats 3+ save 4+ inv save fearless even if you dont need it for them i think its a much better option Not really - 1) Dante and the SG all have master crafted weapons so the rerolls to hit is fairly wasted using a Recluisarch or Chaplain over the Commander. 2) The SG are already fearless which is conferred to Dante and the Priest so no gain whatsoever there. 3) Dante can use Hit and Run, that's a really big one you lose out on when swapping him out. 4) Dante is I6/7 and has 7 attacks when charging with the banner in tow. 5) Dante has 2+/4++ plus four wounds... Again much better. So I think you can see from the above those are five good reason to take Dante. G Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2661822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
prenelf Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Not really - 1) Dante and the SG all have master crafted weapons so the rerolls to hit is fairly wasted using a Recluisarch or Chaplain over the Commander. 2) The SG are already fearless which is conferred to Dante and the Priest so no gain whatsoever there. 3) Dante can use Hit and Run, that's a really big one you lose out on when swapping him out. 4) Dante is I6/7 and has 7 attacks when charging with the banner in tow. 5) Dante has 2+/4++ plus four wounds... Again much better. So I think you can see from the above those are five good reason to take Dante. G :huh: still apart from hit and run i think a reclusiarch would be better you could have a reclusiarch with a jump pack and an infernus pistol and save 55 points. Dantes stats aren't that much better then the reclusiarch and SG may have master crafted weapons but that lets them reroll one failed hit per man all every single attack a reclusiarch has a 3+/4++ save with 3 wounds which isnt much worse the only real thing that would make me take him is hit and run Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2662053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Lets see a comparison between Dante & Reclusiarch Dante's pros: *+1 WS *+1 W *+1 A *+1 I *+1 Save *Death Mask including Nerfing opponent (-1WS, -1W, -1 I, -1 A) *MC power weapon *Hit & Run *Surgical Strike *Makes Sanguinary Guard Troops Reclusiarch with Infernus Pistol pros: * Liturgies of Blood * Fearless (if you consider it a plus) * Costs 55pts less I don't know about you, but for me is a no brainer. 55pts more for what he can offer to the army is not even worth mentioning IMO. I would chose Dante over a Reclusiarch any day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2662066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
prenelf Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Lets see a comparison between Dante & ReclusiarchDante's pros: *+1 WS *+1 W *+1 A *+1 I *+1 Save *Death Mask including Nerfing opponent (-1WS, -1W, -1 I, -1 A) *MC power weapon *Hit & Run *Surgical Strike *Makes Sanguinary Guard Troops Reclusiarch with Infernus Pistol pros: * Liturgies of Blood * Fearless (if you consider it a plus) * Costs 55pts less I don't know about you, but for me is a no brainer. 55pts more for what he can offer to the army is not even worth mentioning IMO. I would chose Dante over a Reclusiarch any day. maybe for you and a lot of people but i still like the reclusiarch more dont get me wrong i love dante but i think a reclusiarch in that unit would do more damage in fact i think the sanguinor would be better still so they would all get +1A Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2662075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
prenelf Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 oh also because the unit is with another IC doesnt that mean you cant use surgical strike? i dont have the rule book with me Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2662077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 oh also because the unit is with another IC doesnt that mean you cant use surgical strike? i dont have the rule book with me Do you mean with both Dante and another IC, or without Dante and with the other IC? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2662086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
prenelf Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 well some one was saying that he would put dante with a sanguinary guard unit and a priest im just wondering if you do that you cant use surgical strike then can you? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2662140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 nope- you're thinking of heroic intervention. Tactical precision will affect dante and any unit he is a part of. If another ic is also part of it, then he is also affected. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2662155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
prenelf Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 nope- you're thinking of heroic intervention. Tactical precision will affect dante and any unit he is a part of. If another ic is also part of it, then he is also affected. if thats the case when im playing orks can i not put ghazkull with snikrot and come behind the enemy? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2662312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 nope- you're thinking of heroic intervention. Tactical precision will affect dante and any unit he is a part of. If another ic is also part of it, then he is also affected. if thats the case when im playing orks can i not put ghazkull with snikrot and come behind the enemy? If you look at the Universal Special Rules section of the rules you'll see that it specifically says which abilities are lost when a unit is joined by a character who does not have the rule (and vice versa). Infiltrate is one such rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2662318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
prenelf Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 nope- you're thinking of heroic intervention. Tactical precision will affect dante and any unit he is a part of. If another ic is also part of it, then he is also affected. if thats the case when im playing orks can i not put ghazkull with snikrot and come behind the enemy? If you look at the Universal Special Rules section of the rules you'll see that it specifically says which abilities are lost when a unit is joined by a character who does not have the rule (and vice versa). Infiltrate is one such rule. i dont have my rule book with me thats why i was asking about it. thank you for letting me know. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2662325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Hit & Run is also lost but Dante's rules specifically say that the unit gains the ability when he joins them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2662329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima40ker Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 dante got nerfed with the new dex but still imagine this... drop pod assault with 3 furiosos with blood talons then dante comes in with his sanguinary guard no scater mean while your assault squads take objectives or just pincer your poor opponent with nowhere to run Ie. omg i lost combat lets run DAKKADAKKADAKKA runs into assault squad...lets run this way DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA...furioso...just play him right and remember sanguinary priests have fun in the blood bath Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222545-lame-duck/page/3/#findComment-2666282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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