Devastator Squads

[The DeathJester]

Im considering creating mobile and offencive Dev Squad, four HeavyBolters and a Sargent with a Combi-Flamer for the occational flaming inside a Razorback with Twinlinked HeavyBolter, 15 Str 5 Shots at AP4 isnt too bad, it can handle most forms of infantry.

 

Do you think that this unit would be effective?

 

And an additional question,, Would it be a cool idea to have lysander ( Consider his bolter re-rolls) with a full 10-Man Dev.Squad armed with 4 heavy bolter and 6 Bolters coming out of a land raider crusader be effective also?

[DarkGuard]

What you've got to remember is that Devs are not mobile. They have heavy weapons, meaning that if they move, disembark from transports, have their transports moved etc you cannot fire their heavy weapons. By their nature they are static. The closest way to get a mobile and offensive Dev squad is to load them up with multi-meltas, bundle them in a Rhino, and drive them into the middle of the board first turn. Or Drop Pod them there and combat squad. This lets them create a 24" threat radius, but there are better and cheaper ways of doing this.

 

Heavy bolters, though, are best deployed in your deployment zone with a good line of fire and left there. Lysander is a fantastic if not expensive way of making your heavy bolter squad really make infantry cry, but again there are often better things to spend the points on. However, is would not be worth loading them up in an LRC, as they can't use their heavy bolters.

 

The closest way you'll get to mobile Dev squad is if you take Space Wolf Long Fangs and Logan. Put Logan with the Long Fangs and make them Relentless every turn. That way you can move and split fire to your hearts content.

 

The other way of course is to take Terminators, I suppose assault cannons are close enough to heavy bolters, and cyclones are definitely close to missile launchers.

 

However, when you consider that moving Dev squads need a turn to set up, they won't be very effective as by then your opponent has neutralised them, or moved out of their firing line forcing them to redeploy.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

I like the idea of devastators in a razorback in theory. It sounds good doesnt it, small unit, vehicle with a long ranged gun, moves them to a prime location and they let rip! Problem with devs is, as DarkGuard says, they are primarily a stationary unit.

 

Using anything to move them slows them down and basically means whatever you spent on that unit is wasted, they really need to be in place on turn 1, this is partly the reason why (the other being the cost) that devs often don't make the grade in lists. If they were relentless or could split fire they would be a much more worthwhile addition.

 

 

 

4 Heavy Bolters will do some real damage to infantry, but luckily with that set up they can probably afford to sit back a little bit and open fire, rather than being right up in the thick of battle

[thade]

Dark Guard has some good advice here.

 

You don't want Devs to move any more than they have to. This means you deploy them into cover or at least onto the table so that they can fire as many turns as possible. They move only when they *have to*...meaning the only time you might want them in a transport is if it's Dawn of War or a similar scenario where they *have* to come off of the table edge. They set up camp and they shoot.

 

Heavy Bolters are cool thematically but often disappointing in most applications. A Dev squad with a 36" range that is exclusively anti-infantry will fair very well against a Green Tide...and that's about it. Otherwise, consider giving your Devs four missile launchers, combat squad them with each squad having 2 MLs, and see how many Rhinos they can pop in the first two turns. If you really want to try HBs, throw one into your tac squad instead of the ML.

 

Remember that each squad should have a role. A tac squad is mostly boltguns which is good anti-infantry. Giving them a ML is nice, but you seldom want to sacrifice all of that bolter fire for a single shot at popping a vehicle. Let the Devs pop the transports (which with that many MLs they're good at) and let the tac squads hose infantry (which with all those boltguns they're good at).

[Mysticaria]

If you do take devs, you should take the razorback. In dawn of war it can help get the dev squad somewhere useful on turn one. Drive 12" disembark, run, get ready to shoot turns 2-6. In non-dawn of war deployments, you can use it as an extra gun-toting transport for some other squad (just can't start in it, maybe for a combat squad or backup to a dead rhino or something) or as mobile terrain and line of sight blocker. Just don't put the devs in it because they lose at least a round of shooting.

 

-Myst

[McFisty]

How I wish Space Marine Devs could take Meltaguns and Plasma guns the way Chaos Devs can. It would be awesome if they could take heavy flamers too. It would certainly make Devs more mobile and solve the issues mentioned above. I think Devs rolling up in a transport and popping out to blast an opponent would rock.

 

For The Emperor,

 

McFisty

[Shadowstalker Grim]

I should think devastators could at LEAST have relentless, if they had that suddenly they'd become quite a viable option, particularly the 4 MM squad (which is quite hard to use and get maximum output from), plus it could encourage mixed weapons (as I think devs should carry a mixture as GW always tries advertising them as such)

 

Perhaps reduce the BS by 1 if they choose to walk, standing still keeps it regular, promoting both the standing still and shooting element, but not making devs useless on the go to reposition or advance.....

[DarkGuard]

Relentless would be too good, that's the Terminator's thing. Instead, perhaps have the Sergeant's signum give them Slow and Purposeful. Therefore it isn't inherent and they can be stopped from moving and firing, and they have a drawback to being able to fire on the move instead of just being able to do it. I doubt they'd do a -1 BS because GW seem to want armies to use USRs as much as possible.

[thade]

I have had decent luck with ML devs; at best they pop half or more if my opponent's vehicles, on average they have very clear firing lanes that I effectively have control of. They don't need the ability to move (especially when considering how many additional points that would cost).

 

I have had decent luck with ML devs; at best they pop half or more if my opponent's vehicles, on average they have very clear firing lanes that I effectively have control of. They don't need the ability to move (especially when considering how many additional points that would cost).

[Shadowstalker Grim]

I've thought about a 3 ML, 1 Lascannon squad (just as a 5 man squad though) with a lascannon razorback transport to sit with them at the back. That'd dish out 1 TL-Lascannon, 1 Lascannon and 3 ML shots. I think it sounds pretty formidable....

[thade]

I seldom use razorbacks, esp ones with upgrades. They're pretty fragile for hiw much they cost vs how little additional firepower they offer. If memory serves (no codex on hand) a single lascannon is cheaper in a 10man tac squad, so take it there if you really want it. Your dev squad needs marines without upgrades to soak wounds for the guys that do have upgrades; that's where additional points for them should go.

[Ming]

In an anti-vehicle role, my devs use the not so well known "rule of three". Three MLs or other AT weapons in a dev squad (or any squad) give me just enough firepower to get the job done. The other 15 or more points is better spent elsewhere (like on combimeltas in my sternguard). 2 AT weapons can still disappoint, so combat squading a full dev squad of 4 AT weaps is not in it for me. My dev squads are typically 5-man, either 3 ML or 3 HB. Sometimes hybrids like 2MM/1ML, or 2ML/1PC. Lascannons and plasmacannons usually go in other types of units where they are cheaper. Every point saved can buy more guns or upgrades in other units.

 

If I was going to spend 70+ points on a vehicle to accompany a dev squad, I'd probably go with a speeder (mm/HF or better) - or a cheap dakka pred. As long as my force org constraints allow it. I'd only get devs a Razor or Rhino or Pod for fluffyness or if all the fast or heavy slots were taken. I'd never do it to give them a transport as a first choice.

 

Getting long winded - some of the best SM stories always have devs and scouts arrive on the battle scene first - deployed and waiting for the tacs and assault troops and termies to arrive once the enemy Shwerepunkt or defensive stanse is known. I like that overall style of tactical deployment, and it justifies everything else that follows in a typical 40K engagement. US doctrine seems to follow in a similar fashion. Observe them, fix them in place, soften them up, and then totally wreck them.

[DarkGuard]

I think the rule of 3 is well known, I remember seeing Mathhammer on the odds of a melta killing a Raider, and you need 3 to realistically make sure it dies (1 misses, both pen, 1 rolls below 4, one rolls above 4). In terms of knocking out tanks you want at least 3 of any shot you're putting out, be it lascannon, missile launcher or autocannon, so a Dev squad with 3 missile launchers is a solid way to knock out a tank. I've said it a bit recently that one high powered shot is not a reliable way to knock out a tank, but 3 or 4 slightly less powerful shots are.

[thade]

I use 4 MLs and a full dev squad so I can combat squad them. That way if they have to focus fire, they can, but they are not committed to always firing all four missiles at the same target.

[JamesI]

I have used Devs in razors in the past. But its mainly to put an extra razorback on the field for the fast lascannon.

 

The only time the devs ever embark is Dawn of War missions where the razor drives in 12 inches, they get out and run to where I want them.