Knights of Outremer

[SCCOJake]

The Knights of Outremer

Chapter 1: The Beginnings

The Outremer sub sector consists of four solar systems each with over ten planets or larger moons. It is speculated that the subsector was first colonized during the early stages of the Age of Technology (M18) when mankind was just beginning to grasp his place in the galaxy; as a result the subsector has been densely populated for a substantial period of time. The region of space not only has a vast population but also a huge wealth of industrial resources, boasting no less than three worlds that could have easily been classified as “Forge Worlds” by the Imperium due to their abundance of industrial facilities.

Despite Outremer’s substantial wealth and potential, as well as its early colonization, a huge gulf of space separated it from the majority of Imperial space. This gulf was both physical and immaterial, requiring a very specific warp path to be taken in order to reach the Subesctor. Subsequently it was not rediscovered by The Imperium of Man until much latter: at some point in M37 an Imperial exploration force became lost in the warp and emerged on the outskirts of the region. Contact with the inhabitants was made and while initially peaceful and open to Imperial officials, it became clear that the virtually entire subsector would resist the doctrine of Imperial Truth, violently if need be. They had adopted a variant of a religion from ancient Terra and would dogmatically resist giving it up.

Having neither rhetorical ability nor the military force needed to sway the population the Imperial explorers withdrew from the subsector, but not before making detailed observations and creating a clear map back to the area. Upon their return to Imperial space the explorers reported their findings to the High Lords of Terra, impressing upon them the enormous treasure of resources in manpower, technology and material. The High Lords did not need much convincing and so in the latter stages of M37 a substantial force of Imperial Guard and Navy was assembled to conquer Outremer. Realizing that once there the Imperial forces would all but cut off save for one narrow warp passage, they granted the expeditions leader an unusually large degree of autonomy once he reached the subsector. Lord General Beldwen was entitled to rule the entire Outremer subsector as the Emperor’s vassal ; expected to fill a tithe but beyond that the region was his to command in whatever way he saw fit.

The Imperial expeditionary force arrived in the subsector in the first year of M38, swiftly establishing their superiority in space as they were able to take the local inhabitants by surprise. It had been noted by the explorers that the area, although unified in their religion, was very much divided along political lines and it was surmised that to take the planets one by one and use one group of locals (know to themselves as Sarçians) against another would be the best policy for conquering the area. The Imperial forces made quick headway capturing the main planet and imposing the Imperial Truth among the inhabitants. From here the Imperial forces began a planet hopping campaign toppling the central system in a matter of two years. After this however, the remaining solar systems set aside their political differences and unified to resist and then push back the invaders.

Although the Imperial advance had been stopped the citizens of Outremer could not push them out of the subsector; a bloody stalemate ensued, lasting for nearly a decade. In a desperate gamble to break the deadlock the Sarçians were able to slip a large force of troops onto the capital planet, infiltrate the cities and stage large scale uprisings. At the height of the civil unrest the Lord General Beldwen was forced to begin recalling some of his troops to reestablish Imperial order. It was at this moment that the Sarçians forces unleashed a two pronged attack: from outside the system a huge reserve of troops were thrown at the weakened Imperial positions and on the capital the troops who had incited the riots came out of hiding to attack key targets and attempt to capture the government buildings.

On the fringe of the system the Imperial defenses started to fail and two worlds were lost to the Sarçians. On the capital the uprising was crushed but not before significant damage had been done. During the peak of the fighting the defense of the Capital seemed to be in doubt, guardsmen were falling in droves and the Sarçians forces seemed on the doorstep of victory. It was at this moment that history and mythology merge and virtually all accounts from the battle recall the same unbelievable event: The Emperor of Man appeared as a ghostly form and suddenly the Imperial troops were swept up with a new found courage and fresh reserves of energy. The zealous mass of guardsmen surged forward and routed the Sarçians annihilating all before them.

This tale would pass into Imperial legend and a small group of Ecclesiastical investigators were sent to the planet soon after. Although they could find no evidence to support the claims of the locals who had seen what they clamed to be the Emperor’s Ghost, they also found a new found faith in the Emperor and the Imperium in an area where there had previously been none. This ultimately influenced their decision to name the event a miracle, and sanction the construction of a shrine to the Emperor at the point where his spirit was generally agreed to have first appeared.

With the capital secured Lord Beldwen redeployed his forces to take back the territory that had been lost, but unfortunately the damage had been done. The local population outside of the capital had largely turned against their Imperial rulers and the military forces had been disastrously weakened. The capital on the other hand had been infused with faith in the Emperor after his image had driven the defenders to an improbable victory. Another eighty-six years passed, and while Imperial influence and power expanded on the capital, their military faced setback after setback. Eventually only the capital remained in Imperial hands and the death of Lord General Beldwen in battle against the Sarçians tipped the scale. The Sarçians invaded the capital planet conquering much of it before a real defense could be mounted, only the government city was left and it was soon under siege with little hope of survival.

Chapter 2: The Crusaders

At this time a lone ship escaped the blockade that had long denied the Imperials from calling for reinforcements. Although badly damaged the small ship made it through the warp passage and was discovered by small force of Space Marines from the Ultramarines and Black Templers chapters. After learning of the fate of the Outremer Subsector the Space Marines quickly dispatched messages to all nearby Imperial forces calling for aid to retake the Shrine of the Emperor. The Black Templers called for a crusade and dispatched a force of some four hundred Space Marines. The Ultramarine squad that had been working with the Black Templers joined this crusade as well as a squad from the Knights of the Raven, a small task force from the Star Dragons and a combined force of ten full Imperial Guard regiments, and assorted ships from the various fleets for transportation and space combat duties.

As soon as the forces were assembled, the crusade made for the warp path to Outremer, set on reclaiming the Shrine of the Emperor and if possible conquering the whole subsector. The combined might of the Astarties and Imperial Guard forces made good headway, smashing the blockading fleet and making a lighting strike on the capital. Although they were too late to save the last defenders of the capital, the Imperials were in time to prevent the destruction of the Shrine and put a stop to the persecutions that had started. The Sarçians had begun to round up those still loyal to the Imperium for “reeducation.” The capital planet was secured, even more swiftly than it had been almost a century before thanks to the addition of the Space Marines leading the way.

The capital back in loyal Imperial hands, the Marines and Guardsmen prepared to retake the rest of the system. The Sarçians, still depleted from the war to retake the system, fell back in a panic. Planet by planet they withdrew and the Imperials hot on their heels. By the end of the year the entire system was firmly in the hands of Imperial forces. At this point there was a schism in the Imperial’s battle plans: many of the Imperial Guard forces felt that they had done their duty as part of the Crusade and wished to return to their garrison worlds. They had already lost many troops and vehicles and they felt that the remainder of the campaign to take the subsector could be handled by other guard units or the Space Marines alone. The Space Marines on the other hand knew that it would take more than even their impressive might to conquer the remaining systems of Subsector Outremer. Castilian Harold Rothburg, the leader of the Black Templers force and indeed the whole crusade, vetoed the guardsmen’s complaints stating that their only duty was to the Emperor and that it was his will to reunite the lost tribes of man. Thus a reluctant army prepared to assault the next solar system.

At first the Imperial troops faced same defeated army that they hand routed from the capital system, taking a number of planets swiftly and with minimal losses. Still the Imperial Guard seemed to lag behind the rapid advance of the Space Marines, often finding excuses to delay and tarry at this or that planet. The delays built up and up, culminating in a tragic loss at the battle of Akrea Valley. At Akrea the Space Marines of the Black Templers chapter had grown tired of waiting for the Guard to catch up and advanced into the valley which had been reported as clear of enemy forces. The objective was to seize a large fuel and ammunition cache, denying it to the enemy and hopefully breaking the resistance on the planet. Unfortunately the reports of minimal enemy troops proved disastrously wrong, a force of nearly ten thousand Sarçians lay in ambush for the Black Templers. Despite the valiant stand of the Templers they were overwhelmed by the firepower brought against them. Hearing the calls for assistance, the Ultramarine squad rapidly redeployed from a mission to secure a small manufactory on the flank of the Imperial advance. They arrived too late however, finding a grisly sight; mountains of bodies, both Templar and Sarçian, were piled, and the blood ran in rivers.

Quickly dispersing the few Sarçians that had remained behind to loot the dead and dispose of the corpses the Ultramarines found one Templar still clinging to life, the rest were either already lost or too far gone to accept anything more than the Emperor’s Blessing. After this tragedy the back of the crusade was broken, many of the Guard regiments deserted the cause and returned to their home worlds. The other Space Marine forces realizing that without the power of the large Black Templar force and the support of the Imperial Guard, there was no hope to totally reclaim the subsector and withdrew to the secured planets. The Knights of the Raven and Star Dragon Space Marines returned to earlier commitments or their home worlds vowing that if the Shrine of the Emperor was ever threatened again, they would return.

Thus it fell to the Ultramarines and a lone Black Templar to establish a more permanent defense of the captured regions of the subsector. The situation was dire, without more Marines the subsector would inevitably fall back into the hands of the Sarçains, thus a swift petition was set to the High Lords of Terra, an urgent request for a most unorthodox act. The Marines still in Outremer had explained the situation in no uncertain terms that the fate of subsector hung in the balance; without more aid from the Imperium the entire region would revert to its rouge status and the handful of Space Marines could only hope to die fighting to delay the inevitable, thus it was requested that a new, special founding of a Space Marine chapter be created to defend and expand the Imperium’s control in Outremer. Despite their better judgment, the High Lords saw the wisdom in such an act and authorized the creation of one hundred Marines to be drawn from the Capital of Outremer with the stipulation that should those warriors be found untainted and remain loyal to the Emperor, they would be allowed to grow to full chapter strength.

And so for the next two hundred years the Ultramarines and their Templar ally toiled to forge the first generation of Marines, train them in the ways of war, and indoctrinate them with the purity of spirit needed to survive in the harsh realities of the Galaxy. While As the fledgling chapter grew they were taken by their Ultramarines tutors out on daring raids in support of the guard regiments that had been raised and trained to defend the Imperial parts of the subsector as they fought against the Sarçians, holding back their attempts to reclaim the planets lost in the first two crusades. Finally a sizable force of one hundred Marines was assembled, trained, equipped and ready for war. The Templar and Ultramarines decided that now was the time to take the full force into battle, to test their creation. Their first action was daring indeed; the Guard regiments had struggled to hold off a major invasion by the Sarçains on a moon on the outreaches of the capital system, and they were losing ground quickly against a determined foe. It was theorized that if a quick strike at the command center of the invasion could kill the overall leader, a charismatic and deeply religious man, the Sarçains would lose heart and the invasion would dissolve. The new chapter under the command of their new Chapter Master, Fredrick Remies, made a bold drop pod assault into the heart of the Sarçain lines, carving their way to the command center and eliminating the commander. As predicted the spearhead attack crippled the invasion and soon thereafter the Guard was able to drive the invaders off the moon.

The Black Templar and Ultramarines looked on with pride as their students accepted the burden of defending the Outremer subsector. In a grand celebration on the capital planet, each of the new Space Marines bowed before the Shire of the Emperor and took an oath to defend Outremer and the Imperium until their last breath, they arose the Knights of Outremer. Their tutors then departed, returning to their own chapters, secure in the knowledge that they had done all that could be done for the safety, prosperity and improvement of the Imperium.

Chapter 3: Knights of Outremer

The Outremer subsector, once a shining jewel thought to be inducted back into the folds of humanity, was now war scarred and ravaged by nearly three centuries of constant battle. The people had grown tired of the war and looked to their new protectors to end the conflict and restore peace and prosperity to their lands. In seeking such stability, the people of the Capital presented Fredrick Remies, the Chapter Master of the Knights with the diadem of their world, making him the Princeps of all Outremer. At first the Space Marine was hesitant; the teachings of both the Black Templers and the Ultramarines had little guidance on this subject, but seeing that there was no other power in the region that could navigate the undoubtedly dangerous and bloody times ahead, he reluctantly accepted.

The next decade saw swift changes in Outremer, in order to cement his authority across the capital system the Princeps first waged a swift war against all heretics, traitors and sympathizers with the old Sarçain rulers. This bloody campaign at first made the people doubt his rule, but shortly after they saw a vast reduction in the crime, terror attacks, and sabotage that had plagued their home worlds and reduced many to poverty. The fortunes held by those who fell in the great purging were amassed into the treasury and systematically redistributed into the infrastructure and industry of the system giving a new birth to culture and prosperity across a dozen planets and moons. The guiding light of the new cultural movement was profound faith in the Emperor of Mankind with its holy center at the Shrine of the Emperor on the capital world.

Although the capital system was secured and the wave of prosperity was invigorating long forgotten factories and trade routes, the bulk of both Outremer’s Imperial Guard regiments and their Knights were being occupied on the fringes of the outer systems, struggling to hold back the tide of Sarçians. This constant battle was grinding down the troops, and replacements never seemed to fill the gaps. In order to recoup the losses more swiftly as well as ensure the safety of each world Princeps Remies issued a new proclamation, effectively splitting his kingdom into fiefdoms ruled by the greatest and most loyal of his Space Marines. Each of these new Feudal lords swore an oath of fealty to the Princeps and to the Emperor and vowed to raise armies for the defense of Outremer. The transformation of Outremer into a feudal state enabled the Princeps to focus on building connections and support with the rest of the Imperium as well as masterminding a much larger campaign to eventually conqueror the entire subsector.

The initial division of the kingdom was between Remies three most loyal and trusted advisors, each mighty warrior in their own right and all veterans of the earliest battles of the Knights of Outremer. Each Knight was granted lordship over one of the major planets in the capital system: Mednath was gifted the fortress world of Kerak and he founded the space marine Knightly order of the Temple, erecting a mighty place of worship dedicated to the Emperor in his capital. Corath was gifted Iblin, a civilized world that also produced much of the system’s food stuffs; he founded the Knightly order of Iblin, dedicated to safeguarding the people of Outremer. John of the Hammer was gifted the planet of Salisay, another civilized world that also produced most of the systems medical supplies. John’s Knightly order was known as the Knights of Salvation, dedicated to healing those afflicted by the wars that still raged across the subsector.

For the next five hundred years the Knights of Outremer rebuilt the capital system, strengthening defenses, bolstering economy and industry and ensuring their safety from outside threats, all the while combating the Sarçains. Though the campaigns were long and daunting the Knights were able to complete the conquest that was started nearly a millennium ago. By M39 the Sarçians had been driven back from planet after planet, finally making one last stand where the entire assembly of Knights crushed the last visages of resistance in Outremer.

Their triumphal parade led through the squares of the Capital leading the Shrine of the Emperor where each Knight took a knee and renewed the vows that their forbearers had made; to defend Outremer and the Imperium until their last breath. Their calibration could not last long however, for on that very evening an Ork “Waaagh!” broke through the outer defenses along the narrow warp passage into the subsector threatening all that the Knights had fought and died for. The Knights once more girded themselves for combat, and rode out to meet the invaders head on.

Over the last thousand years the Knights of Outremer have fought two great wars against the Orks, repelled Eldar pirate raids, sent forces to aid in reclaiming territory lost to the Tau and faced a horrific invasion of Daemons and Marines of the Traitor Legions who tore their way into the subsector through a new warp gate. All the while they have continued to aid both of their parent chapters; helping the Ultramarines destroy a splinter from the Tyranid hive fleet Behemoth and lending aid to the Black Templers when they crushed an uprising of heretical psykers. They also responded to a myriad of other distress signals throughout the Imperium, proving that Outremer was worthy of the blessings that the Emperor had bestowed upon it.

Chapter 4: The Knightly Orders

The Knights remain relatively small in number compared to other chapters, the four major divisions each only resemble a standard codex company give or take a few Marines, and this means that the whole chapter only numbers around five hundred marines. The Knights are also lacking in some of the other accoutrements standard to most other Marine chapters; they field only five Dreadnoughts at any time, and they are some of the most prized relics afforded to the Knights. They also field very few tanks, preferring to rely on the strength of their warriors in single combat than rely on the some times cumbersome war machines. They do however have an unusually large number of Razorbacks, most notably in the Knights of Iblin order. Lastly the chapter can not bring a single Battle Barge to war, preferring the smaller and more individualized Strike Cruisers, each maintained by the individual Knightly Orders along with the various support craft needed.

The Knightly orders; The Order of the Knights of Outremer from the Capital, the Order of the Temple, the Order of Salvation, and the Order of Iblin make up the bulk chapter and form the core of the mighty army of Outremer. These Marines often work hand in hand with the Imperial guard regiments that their lords are required to raise and maintain. The Princeps of Outremer additionally established two elite squads of Marines to perform specialist functions within the chapter; The Praetorians and the Guardians of the Relics.

The Knights of Outremer, the Order of Knights most closely associated with the Princeps, and the Capital is overseen by the Marshal. The Marshal is always a mighty veteran; one who is a trusted and loyal warrior who is often chosen to succeed the role of Princeps should the current one fall. These knights, wearing armament of a rich blue color wear shimmering silver shoulder guards, trimmed in gold and emblazoned with the five golden crosses of Outremer. Like most of the other Knightly orders these Space Marines wear a stripped metal helmet to denote their rank as Knights, marking them apart from the sergeants with their white helms and captains with golden helmets. These Knights fill a variety of roles, often acting as the central component to any army, or the honor guard to a commander overseeing a campaign. They do not however always make up the bulk of the contingent, often only able to field on squad at a time as they are spread across the subsector, or engaged in missions outside of Outremer acting as the emissaries of the Princeps and the fulfillers of any vows of friendship or alliances that the Knights have made with other Space Marine chapters or Imperial entities.

Knights Of Outremer:

The Praetorians are hand selected by the Princeps as his personal bodyguard, nominated by their brother Knights from the various orders for their unwavering loyalty, purity and martial prowess. Once inducted into the ranks, Praetorians ceremoniously strip the paint from their armor, cleanse it and then wrap it in the darkest blue color, even the helmet is painted the dark blue to indicate that none among that order is above another and all answer only to the Princeps. They leace only the shoulder guards of their former order unchanged, thus brining honor to their order, and maintaining the purity of the Machine Spirit of the armor. They also clothe themselves in a pure white tabard with the five golden crosses that is the symbol of Outremer. These mighty warriors are often divided, sent out to lead the armies of Princeps in his place, as each has the military mastery of any regular Space Marine captain. However, when the Princeps himself goes to war, the entire body of the Praetorians is joined to ensure the safety of their leader.

Praetorian seconded from the Knights of the Temple:

The other specialist formation, the Guardians of the Relics are yet another brand of elite, they guard (as their name would suggest) the chapter’s most revered relics and artifacts. For most of their time in this unit the Guardians will never leave the Shrine of the Emperor on the capital world, wherein their charges are kept. However, when the situation is dire enough the Princeps can authorize the use of one of these sacred relics on the field of battle. When this happens, these fearsome warriors, clad in bone white terminator armor with black tabards emblazoned with the golden crosses march with the relic, be it a scared and burnt battle streamer, a weapon of great renown, or the ritual chalice of the Princeps, used to anoint a new leader of the Knights of Outremer, thus ensuring its safety for future generations of the Knights. The Guardians always number twenty; ten are always on guard in the Reliquary of the Shrine while the other ten are either training or at war with one of the relics.

A Guardian of the Relics: http://bolterandchainsword.com/tsmsbeta.ph...;bg=FFFFFF&

The Knights of the Temple for example use vastly more Assault Squads than tactical squads, preferring to engage their enemies as swiftly as possible. Some times they use jump packs to descend from the heavens upon the unrighteous, at other times they make use of ground transports or simply run across the open ground, ignoring whatever is thrown against them simply to come to grips with the foes of the Emperor. Often times another Order will call upon the Knights of the Temple to provide an assault squad or two to aid in some particularly daring attack against a determined foe, and so in many armies it is no shock to see the white and red adorned Marines with their vicious chainswords and deadly bolt pistols.

A Knight of the Temple:

The Knights of Salvation produce more apothecaries than any of the other Orders, which is fitting as their home world produces most of the medicines of the subsector. Thus many of their order task themselves to other Orders to ensure that proper medical attention is given to the servants of the Emperor and the protectors of Outremer. It is there for a rare sight indeed to find any force of arms from Outremer without somber black clad apothecaries, a simple white cross decorating their shoulder guards. The Order does also produce some of the finest and most dedicated warriors, adept at both defense and attack of fortifications, providing heavy support with their devastator squads.

A Knight of Salvation:

The Knights of Iblin are often referred to as the Rocks of Outremer, they are very often looked at as the backbone of any Outremerian army. Iblin provides a Knightly Order comprised almost entirely of tactical marines, virtually all of which are mounted in the formidable Razorback transports. These knights are found holding the line against tides of enemies, or driving an armored spearhead into the heart of a formation breaking their coherency and sewing discord in the enemy ranks. Often the bulk of a force will be made up of Knights from Iblin, so tried and true are their methods that their lord is often said to be the favored of the Princeps, chosen because of loyalty and dedication that goes beyond virtually any other space marine as well as an aptitude for war that can be matched only by the Princeps himself. They adorn themselves in the colors of the heraldry of their first lord, Corath; a golden yellow quartered with a rich burgundy red and take a simple silver cross as the charge.

A Knight of Iblin:

Though each Order wears its own icon on both of their shoulder pads, incorporated into that design is also the mark of Outremer, the five golden crosses. This design signifies the loyalty to their lords as well as the lord and his men’s loyalty to the Princeps, and thus to the Emperor of Man. Although each Order has a different background, different fighting style and different traditions, each shares the duality of ferocity and civility learned from their earliest teachers: a Black Templar and Ultramarines. They are also bound by their sacred vows and pledges to defend Outremer and the Imperium to their dying breath.

[NightrawenII]

Hello and welcome in the Liber.

 

This is a little narrative I have worked up for a 'DIY' chapter I thought up after whatching the movie Knigdom of Heaven.

- The "little" is rather superfluous here.

 

The region of space not only has a vast population but also a huge wealth of industrial resources, boasting no less than three worlds classified as “Forge Worlds” by the Imperium.

- Forge World is home of the secretive and mysterious Priesthood of Mars, it's not just one planet but rather entire realm by itself. There is only few of them in entire Imperium, no way for three FWs in one subsector. There is possibility for Industrial World. Oh, and the FWs were settled/created during Age of Strife.

 

By the end of the year the entire system was firmly in the hands of Imperial forces. At this point there was a schism in the Imperial’s battle plans: many of the Imperial Guard forces felt that they had done their duty as part of the Crusade and wished to return to their garrison worlds.

- The Imperial Guard regiments go there, where the Departmento Munitorum is pointing its finger.

 

Castilian Harold Rothburg, the leader of the Black Templers force and indeed the whole crusade, vetoed the guardsmen’s complaints stating that their only duty was to the Emperor and that it was his will to reunite the lost tribes of man.

- Castellan, but considering you have more than one Fighting Company of Black Templars, he is more likely Marshal.

 

Quickly dispersing the few Sarçians that had remained behind to loot the dead and dispose of the corpses the Ultramarines found one Templar still clinging to life, the rest were either already lost or too far gone to accept anything more than the Emperor’s Blessing.

- Emperor's Mercy.

 

After this tragedy the back of the crusade was broken, many of the Guard regiments deserted the cause and returned to their home worlds.

- No.

 

Thus it fell to the Ultramarines and a lone Black Templar to establish a more permanent defense of the captured regions of the subsector.

- It's not like the Black Templar can call 0800-Bring-more-Wrath-of-Emperor or something, right?

 

Despite their better judgment, the High Lords saw the wisdom in such an act and authorized the creation of one hundred Marines to be drawn from the Capital of Outremer with the stipulation that should those warriors be found untainted and remain loyal to the Emperor, they would be allowed to grow to full chapter strength.

- Questionable, the Founding of Chapter is quite arduous and long process, Why not call another already existing Chapter?

 

In order to recoup the losses more swiftly as well as ensure the safety of each world Princeps Remies issued a new proclamation, effectively splitting his kingdom into fiefdoms ruled by the greatest and most loyal of his Space Marines.

I stopped reading right here, because I'm rather tired with this article and this is going into ridiculous realm. The point of DIY is to make the concept adapt to the Universe, not the Universe adapt to the concept. Oh, and the DIY means "Do it yours...", not copy-paste already existing things.

[Marshal Rohr]

How in God's name would the Ultramarines and Black Templars train a chapter jointly?

[SCCOJake]

Well NightrawenII, not to be overly defensive but... is this a forum for constructive criticism until you get tired of fluff inaccuracies and then you get to be a dick? As for your specific complaint about copy paste; I assume you are referring to the Ultramarines? Well it’s always been my understanding that any world that produces Space Marines (and generally the solar systems that that world inhabits) is ruled by the Space Marine chapter, perhaps I was mistaken and commander Dante of the Blood Angels actually has to ask the planetary governor of Baal nicely for new recruits? Or maybe he has just run a much better reelection campaign than any of the other candidates for the past thousand+ years or so? I assumed this would need a lot of work to be considered fluff compatible but you don’t have to be an asshat about it.

 

As for your comment Marshal2, I fail to see how they couldn’t. Sure there are lots of conflicts that might arise but in the end are they not working towards the same goal? The two chapters may be very different in ideology and combat style but at the end of the day are they not both trying to do the Emperor's will? Perhaps I will simplify things and just make it one or the other (probably leaning more towards black templar).

[Lord Scytha]

How in God's name would the Ultramarines and Black Templars train a chapter jointly?

 

With difficulty! ;)

 

 

Actually I have a more pointed question. Whose gen-seed did they use?

 

BT and Ultras stem from two different Primarchs. Dorn and Robote. When founding a chapter the AdMech only uses genseed from one founding legion line. So a chapter can be a successor to the Fists OR the Ultramarines but not both.

 

It's possible they could still be trained by marines from other chapters and gen lines if there is a good reason for it.

[SCCOJake]

Well, at first I had thought to use recovered Gene seed from the casualties of the ambush that wiped out the BT, but dismissed that because given that the facilities and equipment on hand would be insufficient to building a new chapter and it just wouldn’t be done that way. So, i suppose if i wanted to keep that thread of thinking alive it would be the Imperial Fist gene seed.

 

As for the training by two chapters, I admit its not really something I would expect to be common, its unorthodox and could have any manner of unforeseen consequences. However, it struck me that to base a chapter of the Crusader States of the twelfth century a combination of Western "civilization" that the Ultras often portray and the blood thirsty single minded religious fanaticism that the BT are typically known for would be needed. This in my mind would make for a more interesting and divers chapter than just a clone of the BT or Ultras. And let’s face it most chapters typically are just copies of their parent chapter.

 

As for the founding in general, I don't know the timeline of the different foundings all that well, but I'm sure I can adjust dates to make this founding coincide with an established one. Trouble is I haven't seen a lot of dates for foundings that have some reason to make them stand out; the timeline on this forum jumps from the 2nd founding to the 21st.

[Marshal Rohr]

Really though, you have just taken the idea and themes of the Crusade mixed with the Medieval Total War interpretation and applied it with a paintbrush.

 

 

Honestly, I'd take the idea of way the Crusades happened and apply it. Say, they took the farthest world on the Northeast portion of the Ultima Segmentum because it was the farthest northwest the Emperor ever traveled. So this space marine chapter takes this world from the Orks/Human Religious Renegades and builds a fortress monastery and begins crusading out into the Ork/Human Religious Renegade held sector and captures several worlds and builds a fairly small empire that they control. The empire would be your one no-no, and you justify it by saying that because the chapter is on permanent war footing in the region it was a tactical necessity.

 

Then go on to describe how the worlds in the mini empire have flourished and the newly imported populations have been successful and efficient, providing well trained and equipped forces to combat whatever enemy controls the rest of the sector.

 

Lose the multiple color schemes, its ridiculous and adds nothing to your army. So many Forge Worlds concentrated in one place is implausible. The idea of a training cadre drawn from multiple chapters is a good one, and one I am very fond of. However, they should be similar in doctrine, but they dont have to be the same geneseed. So no radicals like the Exorcists, Templars, Relictors mixing with IF, UM, Sal successors and so on.

[Brother Tyler]

The region of space not only has a vast population but also a huge wealth of industrial resources, boasting no less than three worlds classified as “Forge Worlds” by the Imperium.

- Forge World is home of the secretive and mysterious Priesthood of Mars, it's not just one planet but rather entire realm by itself. There is only few of them in entire Imperium, no way for three FWs in one subsector. There is possibility for Industrial World. Oh, and the FWs were settled/created during Age of Strife.

Can you provide a quote to support this? It isn't consistent with the information I have:

 

Forge Worlds are planets ruled by the Adeptus Mechanicus...Ruled and maintained by the Adeptus Mechanicus they are planet-sized factories...

 

...There are thousands of Forge Worlds dotted across the entire galaxy. All are the sovereign domain of the Adeptus Mechanicus...

(emphasis added)

 

I concur on the recommendation to ditch the multiple color schemes. I suggest finding some other means to differentiate between the different orders of your Chapter, in a manner similar to the Exorcists (for whom there is no readily identifiable method for distinguishing members of their different orders, or whatever they're called). Alternately, you might make the differentiation much more discreet, such as chest shields with different designs, incorporation of the special markings on certain parts of the armour such as kneepads or shoulder pads, etc.

 

As for responses to feedback, a word of caution is in order: if you feel that someone is being unnecessarily harsh, you have a few choices, none of which include using the words "dick" or "asshat". First, you can ignore them and respond in a more constructive manner. Second, you can address the issue with them offline (PM or e-mail). Third, you can report the post/member to a moderator.

 

No matter how good your work is, you will receive harsh criticism here (and some of it might even be valid ;) ). Also, the medium of text is notoriously difficult for expressing and gauging intent, especially when complicated with different social mores, native tongues, etc.; so criticism you perceive as "harsh" might not have been intended in that manner. The trick is learning to separate the wheat from the chaff and to maintain the high standards of constructiveness and civility that we ask of our members without lowering yourself to the (perceived) level of others.

[Marshal Rohr]

Seriously?

 

In a emprie of MILLIONS of worlds. 3 of thousands in one subsector is highly unlikely and would also see so much concentrated Mechnicus forces that no enemy would have been able to cause as much damage as suggested.

[Brother Tyler]

Seriously?

 

In a emprie of MILLIONS of worlds. 3 of thousands in one subsector is highly unlikely and would also see so much concentrated Mechnicus forces that no enemy would have been able to cause as much damage as suggested.

 

I'm not claiming that there can/can't be 3 forge worlds in a single sub-sector as I don't pretend to know how many worlds might be in a sub-sector or what all of the forge worlds are and where they might be. If you gentlemen have this knowledge, feel free to provide it (citing your sources, of course ;) ). If, on the other hand, you're just espousing an opinion, then you shouldn't assert it as fact. ;)

[Marshal Rohr]

Logic can't dictate a plausible scenario?

 

What does having 3 Forge Worlds in one sub sector contribute to the background or the article itself? Nothing. Its information that just fills space. He has yet to actually describe anything more than a campaign, nothing on beliefs, nothing on the chapters character.

 

We are trying to help him fit into the background and telling him that it could be possible opens a doorway to far worse scenarios.

[Brother Tyler]

Ah, but there is an unwritten compact at issue here.

 

Feedback is a necessary function of this forum, however, that feedback must be honest. Too often, members mistake being candid for being honest. There's nothing wrong with being candid, of course, but it should be combined with honesty, not in place of it. "Logic" is definitely at stake, but there is a vast difference between facts and assumptions. When someone says that there is "no way" for three forge worlds to be in the same sub-sector, or that such would be "highly unlikely", there must be hard evidence to support the statement or it is an opinion. It's okay to express an opinion, but honesty demands that we clearly indicate our opinions instead of articulating them as fact. To do otherwise is unfair to the member seeking the feedback, especially if he is honestly endeavoring to fit his work into the official canon.

 

As for how much/little the member has provided, there's nothing wrong with that. The process allows for Chapters to be developed piece by piece, as and when the member is ready. If he wants to focus on one part, that's his choice. It's his Chapter, after all. It's not anyone else's place to tell him what to do or when to do it. Our role is merely to provide feedback and suggestions, allowing him to make the decisions.

 

There's a difference between "helping" and "pressuring". We need to steer away from the latter. Not all of the feedback provided so far has been the latter, of course, but I can tell you that too much has, and this type of conduct tends to steer people away from the forum instead of drawing them here. Not everyone has the same goals in mind with their DIYs, but too often the feedback they get doesn't take this into account, which is highly unfortunate.

[Marshal Rohr]

The goal is to create background adherent chapters.

 

In the background Forge Worlds are rare, soverign domains of the Mechanicus. Each one is heavily defended and fortified. The Astartes dont have the right or privelege to encroach on Mechanicus realms. 3 Forge Worlds in such a small concentrated area of space as a sub-sector with three Forge Worlds would see MASSIVE Mechanicus presence.

 

To have a space marine chapter formed in an AO already with considerable resources is implausible. Considering that Titans, Knights, Skitarri, Praetorians, etc are some of the best fighting forces in the Imperium anyway, a Space Marine chapter would just be a waste of resources that could be spent elsewhere doing more work.

[Brother Tyler]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing your opinions. All I'm saying is that you need to be more clear in identifying them as such and that you need to clearly identify that these are based on your own assumptions, not on any known facts. There may be logic behind the conclusions you've drawn, but that doesn't make them certifiable fact.

 

Also, as my first post in this discussion pointed out, sometimes you guys draw conclusions that are incorrect and which are contrary to actual established fact, so perhaps you shouldn't be so ready to defend your assumptions. :P

 

We can't really help people to get their ideas to be "background adherent" if we can't get our facts straight now, can we?

[Marshal Rohr]

Are Forge Worlds not rare domains of the Mechanicus?

 

Are the Forces of the Mechanicus not some of the best in the Imperium?

 

Are Space Marines not rare tools used for the most dangerous missions with an intense optempo to better serve the Imperium?

 

All of these things have root in both fact and precedent within the background. So what makes the High Lords create on Chapter just for this purpose?

[Brother Tyler]

None of those are in dispute. However, the individual facts don't necessarily support the conclusion that is being espoused. They don't contradict it or rule it out, but they don't necessarily support it either. Those facts alone are nothing more than variables in a much longer equation, with many times many more variables remaining unknown. They don't necessarily add up to the conclusion you're asserting as a fact based on "logic".

 

If there's one thing that everyone should know about the Warhammer 40,000 game universe and it's rich background, it's the fact that there are exceptions. The Sons of Medusa are an exception, the Exorcists are an exception, the Fire Claws/Relictors are an exception, the Angels of Vigilance are an exception, et cetera ad nauseam. There is enough room for flexibility in the established background material for a variety of different things to take place, so it is presumptuous of us, the players, to decide that such and such is not possible or that someone shouldn't do such and such. Yes, we can point out the unlikelihood of something, support it with known facts, recommend alternatives, etc. What we should not do is tell someone that they can't do something or rabidly attack someone who has done nothing more dangerous than proposed something that doesn't fit within our preconceived notions (opinions). It might be somewhat safe to tell someone that the game material doesn't allow something (such as a Successor Chapter of the Space Wolves or a 2nd Founding Successor Chapter of the Salamanders), but even these "certainties" are malleable under the attentions of GW. When a conclusion relies upon fans to put a number of facts together, the reliability of the conclusion is suspect.

 

Do some of the concepts espoused by the OP seem likely? Perhaps not. But we must be careful when stating why these things might not be likely, especially when that likelihood is supported by nothing more than supposition and induction.

 

More importantly, the method by which we deliver our message should be considered. As the early posts demonstrate, saying things in certain ways (whether valid or not) can have unintended consequences. Negative feedback is a necessary thing, but negative feedback can still be constructive and civil. Unfortunately, several of the replies have been decidedly lacking in those areas, treading into the realm of being obnoxious and condescending. That should really be avoided, especially as it serves to be more disruptive and gives other members a bad impression of the rest of our members.

[NightrawenII]

Forge Worlds are planets ruled by the Adeptus Mechanicus...Ruled and maintained by the Adeptus Mechanicus they are planet-sized factories...

I was under impression the Knight Worlds are under control of Forge World(planet). So when you are talking about Forge World, you are talking about its domain, ie. the Forge World(planet) + various stations in the system + its thrall planets, the Knight Worlds. I will dig up my material later. Right now I'm under time pressure. -_-

 

'Few' is Goblin math ;) and subject of context, but you got me there.

 

I see your point. "No way" was off. I should say implausible and unnecessary.

 

Well NightrawenII, not to be overly defensive but... is this a forum for constructive criticism until you get tired of fluff inaccuracies and then you get to be a dick? As for your specific complaint about copy paste; I assume you are referring to the Ultramarines?

No, I was tired with the article dragging on and on with what is Medieval era Crusade in Space. It is fine to draw some inspiration from Real World history or culture, but there is limit to that.

[SCCOJake]

OK guys, I fixed the "Forge World" issue; changed it to being hyper industrialized worlds that the imperium might have made into forge worlds. Are we happy with that issue now? Or is it still implausable that an area of space that has been self sustaining for a few thousand years and consists of dozens of planets would have a few planets dedicated to vast manufacturing facilities?

 

As for changing the armor colors, I appreciate your opinions and can see valid points concerning the issue, but you can drop it. If I change everything else that will remain the same. It is not as though there is no precidend for this, see the Dark Angels with the Death Wing and Raven Wing; sure they may have a very different reason for this but the fact remains that chapters can diverge from the Codex in this regard.

 

@ Marshal2: I'm not really sure what you mean by 'took the themes of the Crusades and mixed with the Total War interpritation and applied it with a paintbrush.' I will say I rather like the rewriting of the senario you propose and may take the background in that direction, but what you said was virtualy the exact same thing as mixing the Crusades and Total War.

[Leonaides]

The Knights remain relatively small in number compared to other chapters, the four major divisions each only resemble a standard codex company give or take a few Marines, and this means that the whole chapter only numbers around five hundred marines. The Knights are also lacking in some of the other accoutrements standard to most other Marine chapters; they field only five Dreadnoughts at any time, and they are some of the most prized relics afforded to the Knights. They also field very few tanks, preferring to rely on the strength of their warriors in single combat than rely on the some times cumbersome war machines. They do however have an unusually large number of Razorbacks, most notably in the Knights of Iblin order. Lastly the chapter can not bring a single Battle Barge to war, preferring the smaller and more individualized Strike Cruisers, each maintained by the individual Knightly Orders along with the various support craft needed.

 

The Knightly orders; The Order of the Knights of Outremer from the Capital, the Order of the Temple, the Order of Salvation, and the Order of Iblin make up the bulk chapter and form the core of the mighty army of Outremer. These Marines often work hand in hand with the Imperial guard regiments that their lords are required to raise and maintain. The Princeps of Outremer additionally established two elite squads of Marines to perform specialist functions within the chapter; The Praetorians and the Guardians of the Relics.

 

In an effort to be concise - I'll start with these two paragraphs and see where you want to go with the following:

 

A small chapter is entirely possible, but it wouldnt take too many losses for your chapter to die out. How long have they been in existance again? If its more than 200-odd years they must hav etaken a concious descision not to grow to full size - why would they limit themselves in this way and risk failing the Emperor by not securing the sector properly? Does being small add anything to them? Why couldn they have 4 double-sized devisions, putting their numbers up in the 800+ range?

 

Your company structure as described bears little resemblance to a standard codex company - I'd remove this bit.

 

Fielding 5 Dreadnoughts at any one time? I'd re-write this to say that they only HAVE 5 Dreadnought Chassis, so fielding even 1 is a rare event. A young chapter will likely have few chassis available, but the occupants of those chassis are also likely to be younger than other dreadnoughts so more awake and active - the limiting factor on their use is more likely to be the risk of losing them.

 

Very few tanks... lumbering behemoths... Marines dont have anything that would fall into this category. Thats what the IG are for. Maybe change this to say that their Armoury lacks some of the more specialised and heavier vehicles available to Marines (so you hint that LR's are rare if not absent altogether), but that they have compromised by prefering to use Razorbacks to give their marines supporting heavy weapon vehicles (or something like that).

 

I do like the lack of a battlebarge - far too many new chapters seem to get gifted one on a plate when they are created IMO. Maybe you ought to say something more on it though - that they do not feel this hinders them in any way, prefering the fast transporting capability of the Strike Cruiser over the slower reaction time of a battle barge.

 

I would add a bit of a name change though - Your chapter as a whole is the Knights of Outremer, but then one of your sub-orders is also the Knights of Outremer. Maybe nothing wrong with it, but its a bit like Ferrari releasing a new car called 'Ferrari', not 'Enzo'. Does that make sense?

 

Hope this gives you something to think about.

[SCCOJake]

@ Leonaides: Indeed this is a big help. Naturally when writing something down no matter how may times you read it to your self it is hard to avoid seeing it through your own eyes and so while I know what I mean, it may not be as clear to everyone else.

 

So, while I will endeavor to go back and make some adjustments in the main body of, but I would like to clarify a few points you have brought up right now:

 

1. Small in number: I will again, go back and try and make all this clear but, the numbers of the chapter are small for a few reasons mostly it is an attrition effect of prolonged combat, the chapter has not been able to field the full 1000 marines because the rates of loss vs recruitment are so close. I shall also add in that each order is responsible for its recruitment and training meaning that there is only a small pool of marines to draw on to replace losses, if one order suffered massive casualties it could be wiped out for good. Also although much of the rest of the organization is divergent from the Codex, they make efforts not to become as different as to warrant any unwanted attention from other Imperial authorities. Lastly, I wanted to keep the possibility open of adding in additional orders, and if I have 1000 marines right off the bat, then I can’t add in new Orders as simply.

 

2. Resembling the Codex: Again this was clear in my mind but I see how it would be misleading; what I mean is that the Orders are kept the size of a Codex company, therefore around 100 marines. I understand that the chapter as a whole is very different to a Codex chapter.

 

3. Dreadnoughts: Again, clear in my mind but not on paper (or the screen) and what you said here is exactly what I was thinking; such a small number of Dreadnoughts chasses that only 5 could ever hold a Space Marine at one time, in combat or not.

 

4. Tanks: The phrase I used was "some times cumbersome" and again I suppose that this is a lack of clarity on my part, but I simply meant that they prefer not to be tied to a land vehicle for transport or firepower and prefer the flexibility that infantry can offer. Where even a space marine tank might find the ground too difficult to navigate infantry would be much less likely to have that problem and could still come to grips with their foe. Also this means that if I ever do build this army I wont have to field too many tanks which means less money and less painting :tu:

 

5. Strike Cruisers: Again you have it more or less spot on, the only thing I would add is that since each Order is a more or less independent fighting unit they have to rely on their own transportation and support and a Strike Cruiser is ideal for a company sized unit.

 

6. Name Change: This may or may not happen... I suppose it will depend on if/when I can come up with a suitable name for the capital planet for which the main order could be named. Since this is based largely on the crusader states it would be painfully obvious to name it Jerusalem (though I have already stolen other names) so I wanted to avoid that and make something a little less obvious but still relatable to the inspiration.

[Leonaides]

Now we can get somewhere...

Re point 1 - I'd try and avoid tying yourself down with numbers ehre, as inevitably someone will pick a hole in it (like me). Even a normal chapter is involved in prolonged combat but to be usually stuck at the kind of level you are talking about is probably both rare, and a very bad thing. It only takes 1 bad battle to shove your chapter over the edge into extinction... Maybe just say that due to the constant fighting, it is almost unheard of for the chapter to approach full strength.

 

Point 2 - Still, I'd suggest that you remove the reference to 100 marines, and mention of a codex company. This is the sort of detail that will trip you up in your IA, and to be honest, isnt really necessary. Specific numbers only ever trip you up.

 

Point 4 - without transport, marines lose a large amount of their ability to function. Rhino-chassis tanks are prefect for marines. They are 'relatively' fast, mobile heavy weaponry (faster and more mobile than Devastators for example) that work well with marine infantry. Sure, you wouldnt take one into a ruined city (necessarily) or up a scree slope to assault a mountaintop fortress, but where tnaks can operate, they work better than not having them. You say they dont want to be tied to tnaks for transport - but you also have a quater of your marines specialise in Razorbacks. This doesnt fit together. Dont worry about having to field lots of tanks on an actual TT game becaseu of what you write here, if you use more general terms, and dont paint yourself into such a restrictive corner, you wont get stuck in it.