Hengist Ironfang Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Ya know what i get kinda annoyed by all the Smurfettes sneaking into the BA forum and trying to slander us cos we're so god damn handsome and look alot better on the Imperiums propaganda posters than they do Seriously the BA will never turn to Chaos for the reasons stated by previous posters, Mephiston isnt turning to Chaos, a daemon lied its what they do, he's just hard as nails, The darkness Corbulo has seen probably has something to do with the hive fleet heading for baaland Kha banda being re-spawned on the edge of the baal system, and last time i checked he doesnt like the BA very much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2662848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
prenelf Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 im not a Smurfette i love the blood angles i just wanted to know if any one knew anything about all the stuff they hint at in the codex because i find it really interesting and i would really love to find out what they are going to do Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2662867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judaz Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 The flaw ain't just the salvation, it might aswell be the damnation. Why ain't The Lamenters coming to Baal? They have cured the flaw have they? Somehow they managed to fix a genetic defect? And that crap about BA hating chaos sooo much that they won't turn... Horus loved the Emperor sooo much, and he tried to kill him. Horus also loved Sanguinius sooo much and Sang died by the tratiors hand. Nothing is certain when it comes to chaos, noone goes safe. It's not like a greater deamon knocks on the door and asks a captain if he want to join. It's a little more sneaky than that. (Imagine a sneaky grot with a note, written in code! The grot is also wearing a sneaky helmet. And a sneaky cape.) And to believe that BA is safe from the taint, well if I was an Inquisitor and I heard anyone being so sure, I'd probably line him up against the wall (along with 500 innocents, but who's counting?) The only way you can be so sure you're not tainted, is to be tainted. A little fairy dust from Tzeentch and all of a sudden we are free from the flaw! We are free from it and able to serve the Emperor even better than before. It also made us more connected to the warp, but not in a bad way, we have alot more psykers all of a sudden. A Librarian in every squad? Man this is great, the enemies of mankind will get their asses kicked! Whoa! We got wings now! Hail Sanguinius, your gene-seed has finally kicked in. I doubt that The Blood Angels will fall, but a lesser chapter that has some real problems with the flaw... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2662956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 The flaw ain't just the salvation, it might aswell be the damnation. Why ain't The Lamenters coming to Baal? They have cured the flaw have they? Somehow they managed to fix a genetic defect? And that crap about BA hating chaos sooo much that they won't turn... Horus loved the Emperor sooo much, and he tried to kill him. Horus also loved Sanguinius sooo much and Sang died by the tratiors hand. Nothing is certain when it comes to chaos, noone goes safe. It's not like a greater deamon knocks on the door and asks a captain if he want to join. It's a little more sneaky than that. (Imagine a sneaky grot with a note, written in code! The grot is also wearing a sneaky helmet. And a sneaky cape.) And to believe that BA is safe from the taint, well if I was an Inquisitor and I heard anyone being so sure, I'd probably line him up against the wall (along with 500 innocents, but who's counting?) The only way you can be so sure you're not tainted, is to be tainted. A little fairy dust from Tzeentch and all of a sudden we are free from the flaw! We are free from it and able to serve the Emperor even better than before. It also made us more connected to the warp, but not in a bad way, we have alot more psykers all of a sudden. A Librarian in every squad? Man this is great, the enemies of mankind will get their asses kicked! Whoa! We got wings now! Hail Sanguinius, your gene-seed has finally kicked in. I doubt that The Blood Angels will fall, but a lesser chapter that has some real problems with the flaw... nobody is saying it's absolutely impossible, but the point is that because of their history and flaw, they absolutely hate chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2663111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Aye... and Whorus was slowly worked on while Chaos was still under the radar. Whorus simply wasn't entirely prepared for it's scope, scale and impact upon reality... I wonder why. Blood Angels are pretty much born into rage against Chaos and it's manipulation and betrayal of mankind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2663222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 You can be an agent of chaos without realising. And when the machinations behind your actions are revealed the mental shock can drive people over the edge and into madness and despair causing them to embrace Chaos. Like Star Wars Episode 3 after Anakin kills Mace Windu, but with better acting..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2663224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Palpatine killed Mace... or rather I think a fall did... which is a pretty unusual way for a jedi to die. Losing appendages to sabres isn't typically fatal, nor does a blast of force lightning. Fluke Skywalker put up with lots of it full on. But that's nit picking and I shouldn't bother against so easy a target as Lucas. The sentiment I think is fair though, but somewhat weak on Blood Angels specifically; which may be at least partly why the original Black Library Blood Angel books by J Swallow were so *cough* well received. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2663234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 im not saying were immune, but we are more resistant than most chapters. and some ba have fallen to chaos over the years but nothing like the dark angels etc. id say most loyalists will remain loyal in the fluff while its not likely that any traitors will be turned(no matter what alpha legion could do noone would trust them..) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2663402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hengist Ironfang Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 /agreed we arent immune 100% never gonna lose a brother to chaos but i still think we're one of the strongest willed chapters, Horus is well known as the primarch who inherited the emperors ambition to rule, he allowed himself to be corrupted because it would justify his bid for power, as much as he loved the Emperor and Sanguinius he loved power more. The BA have more solid roots and, other than the odd bit of incredibly lame Matt ward fluff, are very uncompromising in their view of xenos and heretics. I also think that the BA are too wisely lead, Corbulo is practically jesus with a medical degree, Dante is a wise old bad ass with more experience than almost any other 2 chapter masters put together and Mephiston doubts himself ever so slightly, and this is the most effective defense he has, he will scrutinise his every decision and action to make sure he isnt tainted, falling or being turned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2664030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calnus Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Corbulo is practically jesus with a medical degree I'm stealing that, and my next Sanguinary priest model will be labeled "Dr. Jesus" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2664078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I'd say if anyone's Jesus(/Gabriel/Michael), it's the Sanguinor... he can even elevate a guy to sainthood on the spot (the Sanguinor's Blessing). And with his cruciform pose it's like, He's back, tooled up and takin' names (Avenging Angel). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2664619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 It rather bothers me when BA fanboys hold up the flaw as a reason for no BA turning to chaos. ANY astartes (with the sole exceptions of the Grey Knights and Custodes) can turn. The official fluff states that the only chapter that has never lost a marine to chaos is the Grey Knights. his means BA have turned and can turn. It's unlikely and very rare but the potential exists. The flaw is not a "get out of chaos free" card. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2664938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 You can be an agent of chaos without realising. And when the machinations behind your actions are revealed the mental shock can drive people over the edge and into madness and despair causing them to embrace Chaos. Like Star Wars Episode 3 after Anakin kills Mace Windu, but with better acting..... you can be manipulated by chaos, but that doesn't make you an agent of chaos. if the FBI tricks me into doing something i'm not an FBI agent. an agent of chaos is some one who worships the chaos gods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2664963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judaz Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 It rather bothers me when BA fanboys hold up the flaw as a reason for no BA turning to chaos. ANY astartes (with the sole exceptions of the Grey Knights and Custodes) can turn. The official fluff states that the only chapter that has never lost a marine to chaos is the Grey Knights. his means BA have turned and can turn. It's unlikely and very rare but the potential exists. The flaw is not a "get out of chaos free" card. +1 you can be manipulated by chaos, but that doesn't make you an agent of chaos. if the FBI tricks me into doing something i'm not an FBI agent. an agent of chaos is some one who worships the chaos gods. Ah, but you have to start somewhere. First you get annoyed when someone are speeding on the highway. You tell the staff when somebody is stealing from the store. You start working as a part time security guard. Then the FBI tricks you into doing something good. You are a bit confused, but still, it's nice to help. Then all of a sudden you start going to a weird kind of school were you actually are permitted to wear a uniform all the time. The urge to help people don't go away. And then, a couple of years later, you look yourself in the mirror. Your eyes does not decieve you, you are a FBI agent, and you don't even remember how you got there... I'll qoute myself here: The Lord (of chaos) works in mysterious ways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2665164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dremen Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 im not saying were immune, but we are more resistant than most chapters. and some ba have fallen to chaos over the years but nothing like the dark angels etc. id say most loyalists will remain loyal in the fluff while its not likely that any traitors will be turned(no matter what alpha legion could do noone would trust them..) Brother I will remain as civil as the Lion's grace permits. I object to your slander of my Chapter adn the Legion it was formed from. I Would expect such words from a Wolf but a son of Sanguinus should be of better... lineage. Utter such words again and I'll show you the error of your ways with the tip of my sword. (note the Veteran Honors and Robes adorning my armor) That said, no legion or subsequent chapter is immune to the effects of Chaos. Even the vaunted Grey Knights are susceptible but to a lesser degree. When the Dark Angels fell we were of one of the most pure gene seeds. It was the sin of pride that made the Fallen turn. The Blood Angels as a Chapter will not turn, like the Sons of the Lion they are devout enough to bear the weight of thier curse. No matter what Chapter a Marine is from the "sins" of humanity that remain, Pride, Greed, lust for power, have significant pull. It only takes a single flaw, either of character or body, to leave one open to the lure of Chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2665264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 i used your chapter as an example as we all know about the dark angelsfalling fluff. half the legion turned or something like. so i think im fully justified doing so in calling them out. and as i said i know we aint perfect, our awareness of it makes us stranger, just as the dark angels knowledge of the fallen is their failing, and the wolves wolfen stuff... etc. failings make us stronger. and yea i know the greyknights are the only chapter never to have a an fal to chaos, thats why i said were went immune just highly resistant. so bring your little poking sword over if you want, but consider your own failings too brother :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2665527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dremen Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Failings? Of the Emperors First and Finest Legion? I think youve been dabbling into to many pretty poems and paintings little son of Sanguinus. If you focused half as much on your sword play and bolter drills as you do on your pretty "art" youd be twice the marine you are now. Almost worthy of stnading in our shadow. As for bringing my "poking little sword" over... Well we've had dealings with other chapters in such a manner, Ask the Templars the price of denying us. As for the conversation at hand, the fact we are made from humans shows we are flawed to begin with. A frail body made whole by the geneseed. A frail mind made whole with disciplin and training. A weak soul made stronger through duty and service. But at our core, we are still weak. In the horus Heresy novels (working my way through them) Each one of the weaknesses in the Astartes is shown in one form or another. So it stands to reason that all children of the Primarchs share thier fathers' flaws as much as his strengths. (Sorry bit of RP, felt the muse touch me on the subject and meh why not right. Might as well pull out the feel of our armies here. Give the experiance a bit more depth in my honest opinion. So being arrogant and gaurded suits me. Off topic a bit, gotta admit im kinda jealous of some of the BA models. You guys got it made for conversion work. I'll probably butcher a unit of Sang. Gaurd at one time or another.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2666276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 After reading this thread I decided to add my 2 cents. I agree with my fellow BA-fans on the fact that BA are less likely to turn to chaos - the hate towards Horus and his betrayal is strong. The flaw, and the visions of Sanguinius in particular, also enhance BA strength. But, the Chaos wouldn't be the Chaos if it was too blunt in its actions. IMHO if the chaos would like to turn BA, it would play on the very same flaw. A Priest, who longs to find a cure, constantly sees certain visions in his dreams of his chapter falling apart after being consumed by the flaw, and he hears the whispers of some entity, which offers assistance and help. So far this Priest resisted the temptations, but (as it was recently said, the Astartes are humans after all) he surrenders and lets this entity take control. The Chaos is most likely to try to turn BA in a way similar to how Magnus was corrupted (the fate of the legion or the purity of faith). My other theory of BA turning to chaos is based on the "chaotic" nature of the flaw. What if the flaw is similar to the plague that was bestowed upon Death Guard by papa Nurgle? Khorne's curse or something? How long could BA resist their "true" nature before embracing it? What if the teaching of embracing the Red Thirst is nothing more than the heresy? The facts that support this theory are BA's failed attempts to cure the flaw and the Inquisitions failings in detecting it. Why weren't they able to even detect a genetic flaw for such long time? Now, I'm not a supporter of BA-turning-to-Chaos theories, in fact they offend me as a BA-fan, but I won't neglect the possibility (though the smallest one) of some BA turning (or, properly speaking, being turned) to Chaos. If it has to happen, I think it'll happen one way or the other of those I described above. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2666311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealadin Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Only Grey Knights are immune to chaos's temptation. While it is totally possible for individuals to fall, it isn't something that just randomly happens. It takes the influence of a daemon or the focus of a chaos god, which generally means there needs to be some connection. The biggest reason people floute for Mephiston being a daemon is his stats... hardly something that really would be taken into account for fluff. I don't think we would ever see a full chaos traitor legion that stemmed from the BA for one reason. Its unlikely that chaos would protect them from the black rage, and its more likely it would cause its onset, and that would mean the traitors would be very dead very quickly. At least we aren't like some Space Wolves who in the CSM codex turned to chaos when one of their ships gets attacked, killing their own battle brothers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2666320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Devlonir Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I actually like the idea that the Black Rage defends the mind of the Blood Angel against Chaos influence through the constant training they have to do to defend against the Black Rage. As it shows a certain foresight our Primarch had. Maybe he gave his life willingly, knowing he was going to die, because he knew his death would trigger the Black Rage and therefore defend his Legion from Chaos Corruption.. Something his close friend Horus was not able to do. It is the kind of action a saintly Primarch with the power of foresight, like Sanguinius, would do. Curse his chapter to a slow decline so they would not fall to Chaos. A bit the reverse idea of the Alpha Legion, who decided it would be better for the Empire to die then and there, than it would be to decline slowly. Again, this doesn't proove they are immune. The point I am making is that the fall of the Blood Angels as a whole is very unlikely because of the nature of the Flaw. And that is what Sanguinius did to protect his Sons after his demise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2666363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelOfDeathXIII Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I just want to add that the "renegade" Chapter "Knights of Blood" has been DECLARED renegade.. They themself claim they still fight for the God-Emperor, and I'm not 100% sure (I will look it up in the Codex when I return) but they appear to have answered the Blood Angels call for help fighting the Daemons and Tyranids (although they don't fight alongside their brother-chapters). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2666573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 at the same time, you dnt just get declaired renagade for petting a 3 eared bunny and then letting it go... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2666584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelOfDeathXIII Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Well I think they are declared renegade for the same reason as why they almost declared the Flesh Tearers renegade.. The killing of allies on the battlefield... I think that if Gabriel Seth hadn't stood up the Flesh Tearers would have been declared renegade as well... On a complete side-note... A friend of mine and I were discussing how stupid everything from Warhammer would sound translated into dutch.. The Flesh Tearers where the first who came up... The "Vlees Scheurders" xD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2666589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Well I think they are declared renegade for the same reason as why they almost declared the Flesh Tearers renegade.. The killing of allies on the battlefield... I think that if Gabriel Seth hadn't stood up the Flesh Tearers would have been declared renegade as well... Yes, I agree with that. The Knights of Blood are renegade because the High Senate of Terra declared them renegade, not because they are worshipping Khorne or whomever(from what we know at least). And the Flesh Teares would have gotten the same treatment if Seth wasn't such a badass with an 8 feet doublhanded chainsword. :) And, on more on topic, I like the interpretation from Brother-Captain Delvonir most. Only our Primarch had the gift of foresight and was that selfless that he sacrficed himself in order to defend his children from the powers of Chaos. And it seems that he was successful. On a complete side-note... A friend of mine and I were discussing how stupid everything from Warhammer would sound translated into dutch.. The Flesh Tearers where the first who came up... The "Vlees Scheurders" xD haha, yeah same here. The Flesh Teares would be named "Fleisch Reißer" in German...which sounds brutal if pronounced correctly( the "ß" is a very sharp "s") but it is utterly ridiculous to translate chapter names into other languages. :) Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2666629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelOfDeathXIII Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Failings? Of the Emperors First and Finest Legion? Yes failings... A Son of Sanguinius would never yell heresy as: "Emperor's hairy arse!" not even if they're still Neophytes.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222588-chaos-and-blood-angles/page/2/#findComment-2666723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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