terminatorAM Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 i play a 2000pnt mostly mech Flesh Tearers army which is supported by a full assault squad w/ 2 meltaguns and serg w/ hammer, plus an attached priest and libby. ive played a few games with the same list and while not winning alot, i have improved and honed tactics as i am still getting used to this new army. the biggest problem i have is with this assault squad and attached ICs, i dont want to remove them or change my list but want to figure out how to optimize them. I have tried DoA them to use melta on tanks or get behind cover and spread out, come from reserves on board edge to reinforce rest of forces, even tried walking them behind vehicle for cover from the start. From trial and error ive realized they are best held in reserve at the beginning and brought on either from the board edge or DS and start causing mayhem, but they never seem to do enough. As a large squad they only manage to kill 1 or 2 targets a game which brings me to my next idea... i thought i would combat squad them, and DS half with the melta guns to fry a tank early on and either DS or bring from the board edge the rest to act as a supporting cc squad for the rest of the army. so has anyone tried this or have any suggestions? btw i mostly play semi-mech eldar Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfinger Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Well, you cant reserve combat squads, you reserve the entire squad, roll to see if the entire squad comes in then at that point you would decide to combat squad, and roll two seperate scatter dice fro each combat squad and place them accordingly. Now as far as strategy goes I think you are discovering something about assaults sqauds....they suck in assault, no really they do, yes putting a priest toget the fnp and I5/S5 helps, and even the Libby is good to add too, but RAS are notfinishing squads, they need support in the form of HG, VV, Dreads, Sang Guard, maybe even a 2nd RAS, but a single RAS on there own are going to get stuck in protracted assaults and get bogged down. As I have been playing my Ba I have adopted a "leap frog" approach...For example, I run my RAS w/ Melta x2/PF and a priest. Then I run a Sang Guard as well, usally with a power fist. Now the RAS gets the charge or absorbs the charge, and goes in and starts the assault, usally my Sang Guard doesnt hit unitll the next round, at which point they will get furious charge, because the priest is attached to the squad that is already in combat. My Sang Guard function as my finishers, releasing my RAS to get another charge off. RAS by themselves are not good cc lifters, they need finishing support. Ashton Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2661836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcatus Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 You might try something as simple as swapping the Libby for a Reclusiarch. They really amp up a RAS. *shrug* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2661852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zid Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Deep strike them as tank busters. When i bring mine in (opponent pending) I deep strike em in half. If I REALLY need to pop a vehicle (vindi, ravager, etc.) I put one 5 man as 2 meltas + 3 guys. Sure, it gets focused down quickly, but as long as they achieve what I sent them to die for, s'all good! The second squad normally has my fist and runs around picking off targets that wander alone, or hold objectives. Like red said, Am squads don't do well in combat solo; normally they hold on until help arrives (terminators, mephiston, more marines, etc.). Jump squads are best used as multiples with the support of quick moving, very killy squads. The AM's take out armor or hold up a squad, then get bailed out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2661857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Yep deepstrike them and then decide accordingly how to split when they come on if you do. Don't forget you can opt not to reroll the first failed reserve dice too. So if board conditions aren't quite right, say an optimal target vehicle turboed or smoked for cover, or a plasma cannon isn't dead yet, or you're just better served holding onto that ace for awhile longer; you get the feel of it with practice. You can opt for the 2x Melta 'suicide squad' and attach the characters to the 5 man unit for a hitty support squad, or spead everything out evenly so you've got balance in each 5 man unit, or sometimes just drop in a big blob for less kill points. Having them in reserve is like holding a wildcard. Once you play it your opponent can react accordingly, but while it's off the table he has to play guessing games as to how they're going to come in and affect the battle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2661863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminatorAM Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 i think ill try deep striking them in as most of you have said to tank hunt and support my killier death company and Seth/command squad when they get closer and out of transports. what should the libby and squad do after DS? use blood lance to try to kill another tank or run in order to spread out and try to land behind cover? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2661877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Eh, I reckon Blood Lance is bad, so I'd have Fear instead. You can use it from further back so you can place the squad whereever bubble coverage is best and still have a good choice of targets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2661926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I thought that squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads. Isn't this included in the new FAQs? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2661940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminatorAM Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 i just looked at that and i could only find it saying that about squads in drop pods, nothing saying it wouldn't work for deep striking with jump packs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2661984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I thought that squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads. Isn't this included in the new FAQs? Squads placed in reserve can't, squads that arrive by deepstrike deployment can. There is a rules thread about it in OR. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2662013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Yes, the question was about Drop pods, but the answers as quoted says : "squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads." No mention about aplying it only for Drop pods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2662014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Units in reserve cannot combat squad (as per original rules and reiterated in the FAQ as you quoted). When units are deployed, ie they make their reserve roll, they are deployed. As combat squadding happens at deployment, this is when one chooses to split them or not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2662274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zid Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Pretty much what the faq was saying (as drop pods go) is you can't choose to combat squad, deploy half a squad, and leave the other half in reserve. You have to choose to deploy the squad as a whole, THEN combat squad them. Its saying you can't say "hey, these are reserved and are combat squads". That essentially would mean you'd have reserved 2 squads rather than 1. You roll for the 10 man as a whole, then squad em when they come in if you choose to do so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2662696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 You combat squad on deployment and all 10 models must be on the board. So you cannot combat squad and leave half in the Drop Pod. You cannot also combat squad infantry in reserve and have half in a Razorback either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2662711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminatorAM Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 so as far as deep striking with jump packs, the whole squad comes in on the same turn with one dice being rolled for their reserves, but if you decide to combat squad them both groups may be placed in separate locations but each roll their own scatter dice. is this correct? i dont have the book with me to check against the faq Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2662856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 The FAQ is poorly worded. When placing models with jump packs in reserve, you may choose to enter via deepstrike. You may not combat squad before deployment, but after you make the reserve roll for the whole unit you may choose to combat squad as you come down. You place the 2 combat squads independently and roll scatter for each of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2662892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zid Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 The FAQ is poorly worded. When placing models with jump packs in reserve, you may choose to enter via deepstrike. You may not combat squad before deployment, but after you make the reserve roll for the whole unit you may choose to combat squad as you come down. You place the 2 combat squads independently and roll scatter for each of them. This. So you can choose if you want to or don't want to when you roll them from reserves as thats when they "deploy" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2662980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Yes. Exactly the same as when you deploy them out of the Drop Pod, but the 5 man squads can be placed anywhere and then roll for each squad scatter Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2663004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 so as far as deep striking with jump packs, the whole squad comes in on the same turn with one dice being rolled for their reserves, but if you decide to combat squad them both groups may be placed in separate locations but each roll their own scatter dice. is this correct? i dont have the book with me to check against the faq Yes. Any attached characters have the choice of which squad to be placed with, and you determine the composition of the squads after passing the roll as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2663032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Black Shadow Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 It could be argued that you cannot combat squad out of a drop pod, because only one unit can deploy in a dedicated transport. It's a different situation than other forms of deep striking (teleport, jump pack) because a dedicated transport is involved. If you put the whole squad in the transport, then it is one squad, not two.. and you are forbidden from combat squadding before deployment. Probably would also apply to deepstriking land raiders taken as dedicated transports. You probably can't pile out and then combat squad, and you definitely can't drop off one squad and then roll forward and drop another. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2663056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 It could be argued that you cannot combat squad out of a drop pod, because only one unit can deploy in a dedicated transport. It's a different situation than other forms of deep striking (teleport, jump pack) because a dedicated transport is involved. If you put the whole squad in the transport, then it is one squad, not two.. and you are forbidden from combat squadding before deployment. Probably would also apply to deepstriking land raiders taken as dedicated transports. You probably can't pile out and then combat squad, and you definitely can't drop off one squad and then roll forward and drop another. i don't know about the landraider, but the drop pod specifically tells you that you combat squad them after they come out of the pod, so that's an issue. i suppose the landraider and stormraven are other issues though. then again, if you DS, you get what you deserve i suppose. as for what to do with an assault squad. i have a single 10 man squad with priest that runs in one of two ways, either solo, DS to mess with his back lines, heavy weapons, tanks and the like, or i run it as a shield for mephiston. in both cases, they have won games for me. they are by far my favorite squad. only one time have they gotten bogged, and that was against another 10 man squad, but my priest put me on top with FNP in the long run. i think they can be great in almost any game against any opponent. they are very versatile in my experience and i love them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2663109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 It could be argued that you cannot combat squad out of a drop pod, because only one unit can deploy in a dedicated transport. It's a different situation than other forms of deep striking (teleport, jump pack) because a dedicated transport is involved. If you put the whole squad in the transport, then it is one squad, not two.. and you are forbidden from combat squadding before deployment. Probably would also apply to deepstriking land raiders taken as dedicated transports. You probably can't pile out and then combat squad, and you definitely can't drop off one squad and then roll forward and drop another. You can combat squad out of a drop pod, because the drop pod rules say its ok. You can not combat squad out of any other type of transport incluing deep striking land raiders, storm ravens, or just rhinos driving on from the table edge. The common consensus is that the FAQ is poorly worded and combat squadding is not allowed while the unit is in reserve, but when it arrives it can then split, so a unit using DoA can split and deep strike on 2 spots. For purposes of this thread, lets assume the squad can combat squad when it comes in from reserve and take the rules arguments (if anyone wants to argue the rules further) the the OR thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2663466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 if you are combat squading, i would recommending using the range of the priests bubble and the libbys sheild to your advantage, ie try to get them with in using the positioning of the character in your unit. this makes the squads more survivable. for instance i have a flamy assault squad with libarian and priest and an ati tank squad with 2 melta and fist. when i deepstruck them i managed to get both poers overlapping onto the melta squad so they would at least slow down the eney if not stop them. no sense loosing the squad if you can help it. if i was really worriedi would have ran the covering squad to bothspread them out and to get the powers in range. i might consider combat squadingo splitthem and take on multiple small units that need stopped... and even consider droping the melta squad to block line of sight to the cc combat squad, so if they try to kill the bigger threat they have to get rid of the lesser threat or give the greater threat a 4+coversave... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2663488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 i still prefer running my assault squads as 10 man units, they hang around for a long time that way, but if you combat squad them, i guess you always get a better chance of assaulting with one of them since the other will absorb charges for you. the only times i have split them, it has been to take or contest multiple objectives that he tried to hold onto with weak units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222621-combat-squads-for-doa/#findComment-2663959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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