Angels vrs. D Eldar

[ShadowElf_00]

i just had my butt handed to me by dark eldar. but i do admit the person i was playing was using an entire proxy army to see if they liked it or not so i had a hard time keeping track of what was what. but anyway what are some of the better ways of dealing with dark eldar with a pure jumper army.

 

i believe he had 3x talos a bunch of raiders and a special character but dont remember the rest, all i can remember is everything had a 5 or 6 initiative and alot of power weapons in each squad.

 

any help would be appreciated

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Basically you are going to have to go straight in guns blazing. Drop as many skimmers as possible with your meltas... The ensuing explosions will kill quite a few gribblies right off the bat. You are going to be counter charged, there's no way to get around that. Once you're stuck in combat you'll be relying upon T4/3+ save and FNP to stick it out. Your units that do charge with furious charge will often be hitting simo and you'll be wounding on 2+... not bad odds. You just need a plan. Oh and power fists/thunderhammers will make short work on Talos.

 

G

[Zid]

Really depends on your list, but like black said, dominate the raiders and kill the squishies. ALL dark eldar units are best in CC; so shoot them! Wyches especially. Most DE have at best a 4+ save (minus archons with shadowfield or special chars). Try and pick off his raiders/ravagers best you can, shoot what you can, and try and weather CC until your dreads and things can bail you out. Furiosos are amazing vs DE

[BOBMAKENZIE]

ALL dark eldar units are best in CC; so shoot them!

DE have plenty of good shooting units. They just are better known for being choppy.

 

 

Most DE have at best a 4+ save (minus archons with shadowfield or special chars).

Incubi have 3+ But most of the book is a 5+ or worse.

 

Try and pick off his raiders/ravagers best you can, shoot what you can, and try and weather CC until your dreads and things can bail you out. Furiosos are amazing vs DE

This is good apart from Dreads not being jumpers. If you can give them a few solid hits I wouldnt be too worried. DE fall apart once they take a punch.

[biglou666]

I havent played dark eldar much, only a few games, but i know they can be a difficult oppenet, having lost 2, and won 1 game against them. So, i Thought i could start a thread devoted to anti dark eldar tactics, that everyone could contribute too.

 

Here's my contribution: ten vanguard in a drop pod, all with hand flamers!

so any other ideas? :huh:

[Sun Drinker]

storm ravens are really the best way to get a furioso into combat, with the furioso getting the charge, because it's an assault transport that can actually keep pace with dark eldar a bit. also, you can get the other unit the storm raven is carrying to also get the charge. the storm raven will tear up eldar transports.

[R0N1N]

storm ravens are really the best way to get a furioso into combat, with the furioso getting the charge, because it's an assault transport that can actually keep pace with dark eldar a bit. also, you can get the other unit the storm raven is carrying to also get the charge. the storm raven will tear up eldar transports.

 

I have to agree with you. The DE can easily take care of any marine in CC except if you have some invul saves, but take a dread in a stormraven and they're pretty much dead DE. My fav tactic is some DC and a DC dread with talons in a Stormraven. The stormraven easily take out the DE vehicle. The Dread can fleet so you'll get that charge in 99% of the time and it will tear apart pretty much any DE squad to the last man. You might have a problem if they have those melta type grenades (think it's havoc grenades), but I've had a few cases where not even those grenades could take out the dread... next turn the DE player need to decide what to do and where to attack because I play 2 stormravens with a 10man DC squad + 2 DC dreads... the 2nd stormraven usually have my libby, Corbs and another assault squad or vangaurd that can be used as well.

 

Just make sure you get off the charge with your Blood Angels and you should be fine most of the time.

[Highborn Mergula]

Well against dark eldar assault cannons are good character hunting.

because It has S6 allmost all dark eldar has t3 that means INSTANT DEATH!

it has 4 shots wich means abaout 50% killing a character every turn.

you're idea of having many Hflamers is a great thought.

[captain maleck]

i Thought i could start a thread devoted to anti dark eldar tactics, that everyone could contribute too.

 

So glad you've done this. I've played a few games against DE, but so far I've only managed a draw on one game.

 

I was thinking death company with Lemartes? great for combating wyches, just make sure you get the charge in first.

[Grizzly Adams]

I have thrown down with them quite a bit, some things i have picked up.

 

1. If they are runnin vect/archon/anything else w/ a shadowfield - throw a dreadnought at it. It stops em in their tracks and keeps that agonizer and 2++ tied up till he finally dies

 

2. Transports go first. Always try to kill all of the transports first. The DE are all about mobility, you take that away from them, you win.

 

3. Quantity over quality. Their toughest armor is 11, and their highest toughness is like 4, so you are better off trying to maximize shots over low number high strength.

 

4. Try not to get shot at by their entire army at one time. DE can be very, very deadly in the shooting phase, try and draw their fire in different places.

 

just a few things that i have picked up

[Hellios]

and their highest toughness is like 4,

 

Pain Engines (maybe grotesques? I can't remember what T Slythh and some of the beast master things are)... however a few krak missiles should do the job and you can always frag infantry :)

[Father Mapple]

Witches will break as long as they're not fearless and you throw tons of attacks at them. S4, or S5 on the charge is sufficient to cause the wounds on their T3, and even if they get their 4+ invul save, you should have softened them up with a flamer/2x meltaguns, even pistol shots before you get in there. A 12" assault jump move is way better than a 6" move with a fleet role since the 12" jump is guaranteed, but the fleet roll means maybe 7", maybe 12".

 

Also, lascannons and missle launchers are awesome since they're outside the 36" range of darklances. And a lance will only kill 1 marine per round. Don't let them get your AV13-14 with a cheap shot when all the AV13 or AV14 could have been shooting from outside the range (regular Landraiders or Predators, Baals and Vindi's have the same range after a 12" fast tank move + 24" range weapon. Unless your opponent is a carpenter/joiner, he's not going to be EXACTLY 36" away.

[*Riken*]

As a Dark Eldar player my self i can give some advice for people have trouble against them.

 

First off learn to love and assault cannon. Against DE infantry it wounds on the two and negates there Armor, it will also shoot down Raiders just as easy as it will kill troops.

 

Next would be the heavy bolters they eat infantry just a well, maybe you can see where I'm headed with this. Baal predators are absolutely 100% amazing against DE keep them in cover or they will be dark lanced.

 

The other amazing codex choice we have are furiosos with talons, DE really don't have much that can hurt them in CC keep them hiden let the Dark Eldar come to your lines, then bring them out and kill a squad of two.

 

I'll add more to this when I'm not in class.

[Brother_Israfil]

I barely managed a win in my first game vs Dark Eldar recently. For me, it was my Lascannons that carved up the skimmers and one of my furiosos (w/ heavy flamer) deployed in his face via drop pod lived long enough to trash two transports and one entire squad within one of them. Sorry, I'm new enough to playing 40k, I have no idea what any of the units were called.

 

Basically, I grounded all his troops, but where they did catch me in assault, my marines lived 2 assault phases at most.

[biglou666]

I grounded all his troops, but where they did catch me in assault, my marines lived 2 assault phases at most.

 

Yes, dark eldar are like that, though some of thier guns are big, there swords and blades are certainly much bigger! make sure that you have some strong CC units if you plan on charging, but against most DE armies, sitting back (as far as possible) and shooting usually is best, its how i got my win! ;)

[ShadowElf_00]

thanx for the replies however i dont have any form of armor in my DoA army as its all jumpers

 

however i usually try to build lists for all comers and had dual meltas for my squads, but would it be better to go with a melta and a flamer with maybe a hand flamer for the sgt in my RAS to deal with hordes. now i have played orks and nids in the past with having dual meltas and did pretty well with dual meltas.

[JamesI]

I think 2 meltas is the best set up for assault squads. Perhaps 2 meltas and a hand flamer for hte sergeant (or 1 melta, 1 flamer, 1 infernus pistol for the sergeant)

[breng77]

I think that pure DOA is pretty weak against Dark Eldar, as they have a number of units that can beat you in CC which is the strength of your army, and you have no way to penetrate armor from more thant 12" away which means you are going to get charged. I don't really think an all Jump Pack army is really a viable all comers build. You can go without armor, but you really should include Long range support from devastators at the very least, (and possibly some Multi-melta attack bikes.) That way you can pop the raiders from afar and set up to charge the DE that way you can get Furious charge so that you get bonus initiatve, and wound most of them on a 2+.

[Guroff]

I have played a couple of games (Friendly) against DE and I have absolutely wrecked em.

 

I tend to like Mech Armies so for example in a 1500PT game here is the basics of what I decided to go against...

 

2 RAS in Rhinos, 1 with Libby for HQ... Squads Spec WPNS were Meltas

2 Baal Preds with Assault Cannons, no side sponsons

1 Reg Auto Pred with no Side Sponsons

1 Whirlwind..... I actually get a ton of use with the Whirlwind vs DE and the template and range absolutely tears into their squads... pop a transport with a Baal and follow up with Whirlwhind from range

1 Stormraven loaded with 5 DC with Bolters (Relentless and Assault FTW), Chaplain with Bolt Pistol to go along, and DC Dread with Talons

 

 

Please keep in mind that this is not a balanced group to face off a random stranger but given the fact that most games, my oppenents and I know what we are facing and build our army list.... I hope you can see some tactics you might be able to use in your army list

 

DC with Bolters... so far the couple of matches I have played have been awesome... the Rapid Fire and then the charge more than makes up for the loss of attacks in CC

Stormravens.... Loving them so far, running 2 in a 2000pt army

Baal Preds with Assault Cannons are probably my favorite in game right now... i keep em fairly cheep with no upgrades and hunt them in packs for protection... run 2 across the board and try to not sac them early and they usually kill well more than their point value.

 

Happy Hunting

G

[SamaNagol]

Shoot the vehicles in order. Ravagers first. Then Raider with Wyches. Then Raider with Warriors.

[Grizzly Adams]

vect = suck. He can run through squads if you aint careful

[Emperors Immortals]

This is sthe only time i ill advocate a split force, but you want a solid shooter element staying within LOS to take down flyers, Arch etc. and a nother assaulting-your-face-to-pudding element to take away ANY hope he has to outmaneuver you.

 

Also, ive fought them a few times now and either tacs or dreads will win the game.Then again, RAS + Priest can do it and astro + basically anythign is a big help.

[Emperors Immortals]

I think that pure DOA is pretty weak against Dark Eldar, as they have a number of units that can beat you in CC which is the strength of your army, and you have no way to penetrate armor from more thant 12" away which means you are going to get charged. I don't really think an all Jump Pack army is really a viable all comers build. You can go without armor, but you really should include Long range support from devastators at the very least, (and possibly some Multi-melta attack bikes.) That way you can pop the raiders from afar and set up to charge the DE that way you can get Furious charge so that you get bonus initiatve, and wound most of them on a 2+.

 

 

I agree, with the proviso that it only really counts from turn 3 onwards - As DoA we have a monopoly on "tie-up" units like VV and RAS to ensure our othe VV units can smash and grab.Until turn 3 its all about outlasting them....

[Zid]

I think that pure DOA is pretty weak against Dark Eldar, as they have a number of units that can beat you in CC which is the strength of your army, and you have no way to penetrate armor from more thant 12" away which means you are going to get charged. I don't really think an all Jump Pack army is really a viable all comers build. You can go without armor, but you really should include Long range support from devastators at the very least, (and possibly some Multi-melta attack bikes.) That way you can pop the raiders from afar and set up to charge the DE that way you can get Furious charge so that you get bonus initiatve, and wound most of them on a 2+.

 

I will agree a 100% jump pack army is weaker against DE than a mech list.

 

Thus is why we enter the mechanized DOA list! Stormravens, DOA marines, termis, and furiosos that can get into combat unscathed. I tested mine for the first time against DE this past weekend and he didn't know what hit em.

 

Incubi have 3+ But most of the book is a 5+ or worse.

 

Yes, thats where furiosos come in Blood talons = win

[ShadowElf_00]

ya i was sittin here thinking of what i could have done differently and i pretty much came to the same conclusion that DoA marines are a bad match up for Dark eldar

 

but you have me intrigued zid...would you mind either sending me a pm for your list or would you mind posting it here so i can see what it looks like