Alpharius and Omegon not Primarchs?

[Captain Idaho]

Like men, some Astartes are simply much bigger and better than their fellows. Until more 'modern' historical cannon is written for these moments, we know nothing for sure... which still means, as far as I'm concerned, that while A & O exist, there may indeed be false copies of them.

 

By that same logic you can't even know for sure whether the entire account of battle is true, or whether it even occurred.

 

And like I said:

 

But since the Ultramarines dispute the veracity of the account and they are known for being honest, whilst the Alpha Legion are known for being deceitful and use agents to spread their misinformation, and Kravin refused to submit his source for assessment even before he was declared a heretic, I think we should be extremely wary about believing the account at all...

[Paradill]

I think this is a case of using circumstance to try and bring some shred of validity to what is essentially a ridiculous theory. You make major assumptions when constructing your argument that simply cannot be verified. First amongst these is the 'genetic test' to see if they truly are a Primarch, the fact remains that in the majority of accepted canon, the Emperor's sons recognise each other on sight, there is a shared psychic and genetic link. Secondly, you are assuming that Alpharius/Omegon must have had access to and knowledge of the Emperor's most closely guarded secrets, to fake primarch-hood, they would have had to have the aforementioned psychic and genetic link, they would have had to have cultivated and implanted all the organs of a space marine without any signs of the usual scarring and they would have had to have had access to gene stock that had only been created a decade or so before, not really allowing themselves enough time to integrate with their new organs. On top of this, they would have to have the original primarch available from which to obtain the "master copy" of the genetics to speed up the recruitment of the Alpha Legion which occurs upon any legion's reunion with their primarch.

 

As for the sub-par combatant argument, part of the Alpha Legion's Modus Operandi was and still is misinformation and subterfuge. You wouldn't know whom you were fighting because the regular Astartes were very tall, whilst the Primarch's would appear to be as tall as Horus. In Horus Rising, the average human comes up to Horus' waist, whilst the average human comes up to roughly the sternum (or what would be) of the Astartes, meaning Horus would be twelve feet tall or there abouts whilst the Astartes would be 8-9 feet tall, if the AL had tall astartes this would be between 9-10 feet, so if the astartes who fought pretending to be Alpharius was tall compared to other Alpha Legionnaires, we can safely assume it would be hard to tell the difference in combat with armour on.

 

I understand why you posted your theory and I suppose it was diverting enough to make me want to refute it, but I hope this can now be laid to rest. The possibilty is non existant, Alpharius was a Primarch.

 

Paradill

[Clewz]

Watched an interview on youtube last night where Dan Abnett did say the twin primarchs are actually shorter than the rest but still larger than astartes

[Ingo Pech]

@Clewz:

 

Could you post the link to the vid? :D

 

@Paradill:

 

Thank you for writing all my concerns about the "A&O weren´t Primarchs"-stuff! 100% aggreement. When I first read "Legion", I too thought, that´s the perfect hint, that perhaps none of Alpharius and Omegon have died on Eskrandor, because all people (including Primarchs) around the Alpha Legion didn´t really know, who they are really face to face to - as far, as the Alpha Legionaire keeps the helmet on.

 

I´m really thankful for "Legion", because it´s the best HH-book so far (ok, and "A Thousand Sons" and "Prospero Burns").

[Clewz]

 

 

its about 2 minutes in

[Jim Shady]

First post here so hello but on topic...

 

In 'Legion' isn't it stated that their is a clear difference in the height of Alpharius and Omegon? And it was said that Alpharius had facial features that were (pardon the pun), twin to Horus? The Emperor also could 'sense' the Primarchs but he could only feel the psychic link between them when he was near the planets they were found on so when he met Alpharius I think he'd know his own 'son', as it were seeing as they were all created from his genetic coding. Hence after the Chaos gods swept the primarchs away from Terra, he knew they lived but was not sure where.

[Hyaenidae]

Just figured I'd throw this out here...in the Hammer and Bolter issue 3, there is mention of a Legionaire claiming to be Alpharius. Here's the link to the Lexi article. I've read the story, and the article is pretty accurate. (spoiler warning!!! Don't go to the link if you actually want to read this story!) Lexicanicum Article Link. So, is it really Alpharius? Omegron? Just a scare/ intimidation tactic? I want to say it's just a Alpha pretending to be the primarch, as he does claim a number of other names, but Occam's Razor has never applied to the Alpha Legion. Also, he (whoever he is) is described as bronze-skinned, and a giant, from the point of veiw of another space marine, in this story. So, this raises the question, if it really was one of the Alpha's primarchs, does this mean the primarch's really are immortal? The whole "Alpha Legion doesn't hang out in the EoT" thing has never been RetConned (to my knowledge), which means if it really was the primarch, Alpharius / Omegron would be a full 10,000+ years old, giving very shaky credibility to the Alpha's primarch's actually being primarchs, not imposters. Just bored, and wanted to throw some friendly fuel on the fire. :P

 

Edit: Quick side note, this story can also be found in 'Victories of the Space Marines'.

[2000AD]

You are all forgetting that the Lucifer Blacks...... let alone the senior remaining member...... are viewed as being one of the finest human combat troops in the galaxy..... getting struck once by one is hardly a crime.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

You are all forgetting that the Lucifer Blacks...... let alone the senior remaining member...... are viewed as being one of the finest human combat troops in the galaxy..... getting struck once by one is hardly a crime.

 

for a Marine, hardly a crime.

 

for a Primarch, kinda weak.

 

WLK

[Hyaenidae]

Captain Coteaz of the Crimson Fists disarms an ork warlord with his friggin' ribcage, and he's hailed as Chuck Norris's heir to manliness. Alpharius decides that the Lucifer Black is wasting his time and prolonging his mission, and knowing that he is a demi-god and can take the hit easy, does the same dang thing to shorten the fight...and he's called a wuss?!? Heck with that...

[Deus de Mortalis]

Oh man, look at this mess caused by the Black Library! I miss the old days when talk of the primarchs was simpler and much was left up to the imagination. Now we have people squabbling over every little word or passage they find.

 

Captain Idaho, are you for real? You make it sound like this is some murder mystery whose plot you are trying to unravel. Do you really believe that there is a trove of boundless information about the Warhammer 40k universe and that GW slowly releases a bit here and a bit there, and that once you get enough you can solve the riddle? Or is it more like there is some loose story and few details that different people have slowly contributed to over time, and that what we know is all that anybody at games workshop knows except for maybe some random ideas they've thrown around to each other in preparation for more fluff of some form that they are working on?

 

If there is one thing that the BL has done to boil my goose was the twin primarch idea, but still, they are primarchs. Until GW releases something that states or even hints otherwise, your few pieces pieces of highly vague and ambiguous evidence to support your hypothesis does not carry nearly enough weight to lend any credence to the idea that Alpharius (and that dumb Omegon ^_^ ^_^ ) are not Space Marine Primarchs and sons of the Emperor of Mankind! (at least in the fantasy/sci-fi 40k universe that was contrived by GW!)

 

PS: I did not give you enough credit. Your assertion that it was "a crazy thought" is in fact correct.

[Candleshoes]

You are all forgetting that the Lucifer Blacks...... let alone the senior remaining member...... are viewed as being one of the finest human combat troops in the galaxy..... getting struck once by one is hardly a crime.

 

for a Marine, hardly a crime.

 

for a Primarch, kinda weak.

 

WLK

 

Though the name "Alpharius" was used in that last chapter, the "Primarch" using it was neither Alpharius, nor Omegon. The "Primarch" who was stabbed by the Lucifer Black at the end of the novel, and who said "For the Emperor" was actually Sheed Ranko. The way you can tell this, is on pg 170 "Omegon" is hit in the chest with Dinas Chayne's sabre and states, "...that's all you get." pg 188 it is revealed that "Omegon" at that moment was actually Sheed Ranko. pg 409 Dinas Chayne embeds his sabre into "Alpharius", who then says "That's all you get,". This doubled event signal was done on purpose, to let the reader know the situation is mirrored, and that it was the same person, saying the exact same thing to the same person.

 

For a Marine, hardly a crime.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

see, i missed that.

 

that makes it around 101% more awesome.

 

WLK

[kalle]

funny , i was just thniking kind of the same thing , but about the 2 "lost" primarchs not being primarchs at all . Maybe the Emperor , beloved by all, made a misstake or two and tought he found 2 of his sons when in fact he din't and that is why no one is to speak of it (it would cause disbelief in the emperors judgement and stuff).