Wicks Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 OK im wondering what is the most effective way of equipment upgrades.And the best way to arm them with jump packs and rinos? Thnak you for you time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Whoa, dude... there's like literally untold millions of combinations of wargear and squad sizes that can work... care to be a little more specific? Like, how many points for a unit? How many units? Asotorath and multiples? SRs as rides for the jumpers? Boltguns or CC? Need them in multiples of 5 for DC dreads? how much melta in the rest of your army? Etc etc... et-bloody-c. Go on... give us a clue! =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 A good rule of thumb is one thunder hammer per unit. One Power Weapon per 5 men. And preferably a Chaplain or Reclusiarch if you can afford one. And if you take them with jump packs (which is probably a bit too expensive to be worthwhile however) always take Lemartes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 ^this I run mine 5 man with Fist or Hammer and Power Weapon, usually with a Reclusiarch all in a rhino, although I plan on converting a heavy flamer razorback for that bbq taste. I usually play small games (1k - 1.5k) and this seems a pretty good unit for the points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malus the Destroyer Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I run 5, 4 with power axes, a single melta pistol, 1 with a thunderhammer and bolter, always with a CHaplain. They fulfill a very select role in my army, the "I lack power weapons and want something to go the Hell away role." Usually in a Rhino. And lately, after people have seen what they do, they cause dumb target selection for firepower from the enemy. 355 points I believe. But I love the lil buggers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 My rule of thumb is 2 thunderhammers per model and jump packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 My rule of thumb is 2 thunderhammers per model and jump packs. I like having 5 guys each holding a Thunderhammer in a pair of PowerFists ;) Seriously though, I'd stick to what Sama said. I run 7-8 guys in a Rhino with 1 TH (+Bolter), 2 PW with a Chaplain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spec.ops Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 My question is what does the DC offer that others cannot? -3 to 30 models in one squad -Relentless Thus, I don't have to spend anything on them because the standard DC model comes with a Bolter allowing me to capitalize on the relentless rule letting me add more models to the squad. Plus, if you upgrade the Chapy to a Reclusiarch you gain a two for one deal by gaining an HQ and DC leader with liturgies of Blood. The only expensive part is the delivery system. He’s what mine looks like: 1x1 Reclusiarch w/ Storm Bolter 15x DC LR: Crusader w/ MM That’s 48 shots within 12" and another 48 attacks in CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d503 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 3 men, jump packs and powerfists. Deepstrike them into the enemies squishy parts half way through the game and laugh as they punch thier way through devastators, whirlwinds and whatever before their inevitable glorious death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Adams Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I agree with the above. With all the options, its easy to go overboard and get expensive quick. Thing is, DC are pretty killy as is, so you can be conservative on the wargear and still have a dead killy squad. I run Chappie 10x DC ---6x BP/CCW, 3x PW, 1x PF Typically in a Storm Raven W/ a DC Dread. Much Success. With just the DC Squad, i have wiped out a 30 man ork squad in one round of assault before they ever swung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shan vener Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 my DC normally consists of 10 madmen, 8 power swords, and 2 hand flamers. they always pay their points back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kollar Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I have a hard time seeing the benefits of Power Weapons on DC who are accompanied by a Chaplaing (why would you ever take them without?). Look at it like this; For the cost of five more points, you get another DC marine. That's 4 extra attacks on the charge, each rerolling to hit and to wound. The number of attacks that hit and wound the enemy will mean that while he is allowed armoursaves, he will have to take to many of them, and eventually fail. Example: 10 DC Marines with no PW (200), led by Chaplain against 10 MEQ models; Assaulting Attacker Group 1 vs Defender Group Calculations by Heresy Combat Calculator™ (powered by HAMulator™) ----------------------------- Attackers Attacker Group 1 Attacks: 40 Hit Chance: 88.89% Hits: 35.556 Wound Chance: 88.89% Wounds: 31.605 Saved Wounds: 21.07 Unsaved Wounds: 10.535 Models Killed: 10.535 Options: Reroll Hit, Reroll Wound ----------------------------- Defenders Defender Group Hits: 35.556 Wounds: 31.605 Saves: 21.07 Wounds Lost: 10.535 Models Lost: 10.535 / 10 (105.3%) Kills in I order: I:5 10.535 ----------------------------- Heresy Combat Calculator™ (powered by HAMulator™) 5 DC Marines w PW (195), led by Chaplain against 10 MEQ models; Assaulting Attacker Group 1 vs Defender Group Calculations by Heresy Combat Calculator™ (powered by HAMulator™) ----------------------------- Attackers Attacker Group 1 Attacks: 24 Hit Chance: 88.89% Hits: 21.333 Wound Chance: 88.89% Wounds: 18.963 Unsaved Wounds: 18.963 Models Killed: 18.963 Options: Reroll Hit, Reroll Wound, Ignore Armour ----------------------------- Defenders Defender Group Hits: 21.333 Wounds: 18.963 Wounds Lost: 18.963 Models Lost: 18.963 / 10 (189.6%) Kills in I order: I:5 18.963 ----------------------------- Heresy Combat Calculator™ (powered by HAMulator™) While they certainly kill off all the models (and more) in the second scenario, you don't actually want to kill all the models on the charge, as that's certain grounds for you being shot to pieces in the turn after. Then keep in mind that the first group also has five more wounds to take before being killed, as well as a LOT more damage to deal to things with invulnerable saves (weight of attacks > PW in that case) and low armoursave troops (orcs, guardsmen, eldar etc) and I think it's a clear win. Overloading them with weapons is just overkill, and not necessary. My setup for DC would be a semilarge group (8-10 depending on wether I want one or two DC Dreads) with a TH, led by some form of Chaplain and ideally deployed via SR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherMoses Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 5-8 guys. 1xthunderhammer or powerfist. 1-2xpower weapon. Best points you can spend on DC are a transport and a chaplain/reclusiarch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 When I look at DC I see them as similar to Khorne Bezerkers. I usually go with 1 TH/Fist, and that is all. PW wounds tend to get buried by the other wounds they cause and get stacked on one model. Perhaps put in a chaplain/Rechlusiarch. (or lemartes in the squad if they are riding in a storm raven.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 5-8 guys. 1xthunderhammer or powerfist. 1-2xpower weapon. Best points you can spend on DC are a transport and a chaplain/reclusiarch. This. I like around 8 guys, and 3 upgrades. I tend to go 2 fists (I saved my thunder hammer bits for squads like Vanguard and HG and an RAS) and a power weapon, with a chaplain providing another power weapon. This goes in a rhino, though in a large game could go into a Storm Raven or Land Raider Also bolters on the guys with fists, as well as 1 guy with bolter and chainsword for wound allocation purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 The best thing you could do would be to *not* give them jump packs. 15pts per model on a squad of 1W marines that you can't control is ridiculous. I accepted 35pts back when they had rending, but now you have to equip them on top of the 35. My favorite composition is 8-10 DC (1TH,1PW), Lemartes, in a Stormraven. This is the Death Star unit. Second would be a Reclusiarch with a PF and 5 Death Co. (1TH,1PW) in a Razorback. This is the distraction unit. It can take on full squads of non-elite units, but don't try to throw it at a tough squad, it'll crack. I also like it for killing MCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 The best thing you could do would be to *not* give them jump packs. 15pts per model on a squad of 1W marines that you can't control is ridiculous. I accepted 35pts back when they had rending, but now you have to equip them on top of the 35. My favorite composition is 8-10 DC (1TH,1PW), Lemartes, in a Stormraven. This is the Death Star unit. Second would be a Reclusiarch with a PF and 5 Death Co. (1TH,1PW) in a Razorback. This is the distraction unit. It can take on full squads of non-elite units, but don't try to throw it at a tough squad, it'll crack. I also like it for killing MCs. I'd happily pay the 35 points each for Jumpy DC even without rending (but with the options for fists/power weapons) if they were controllable they way there were in the pdf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 James, I'd probably field them if they were controllable and 35pts base, but it's more 'cuz I have a squad of 10 fully-painted Death Co. with Packs than 'cuz I think it's worth it. That they can't be controlled anymore... why even bother giving them the option for Packs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 packs cost too much. take a 10 man squad, thats 150 points on packs alone. well on your way to a raider or raven there. 5 men 75 theres a razorback with extra weapons. everything else is gravy. against toughness 4+ with 4+save or better or less than initive 4 bolters arnt something id give everyone. (always give them to fist/hammer guys) dont bother with pistol upgrades unless its an all dc army and you need infernus to get at squishy contents. with the number and quality of attacks (presuming you have a chaplin as youd be silly not to have one in a squad)power weapons arnt nesiary but can help with artificer armour and the like. fists and hammers good to have one for really tough stuff(wraith lords and mcs) and dreads. id have 1 just in case. bolters vs extra attack... well if your figting eldar they sure can help as you hit on 3s and wound on 3s and sometimes ignore armour, but not only that they take those wounds before you charge so its almost like being initive 10 with those 2 shots. so means youll get less attacks back. and so when youll attack the stuff that are faster than you theyll have fewer models to spread your wounds accross. now as stats change this matters less. ie higher armour the less effective the shots, the higher the toghness too. lower initive you get also means your more likely to do more damage with the extra str 5 cc attack. personaly id go for a mix just incase your stuck facing a rhinos rear armour somehow so you can dakka it a bit. and if they take any casultys id take a bolter guy off cause the less you have the less time you should have to wait to get into cc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Best load out for DC is just more DCm and a Chaplain. There amazing as-is, drop them out of a SR or rush tehm in a LR, theres really no need for anythign apart from a hammer. Its expensive, but sometimes i run my full 30 DC (lots of the older models) and just let them rampage, being so large, i can always get into combat with what i want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guroff Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 My question is what does the DC offer that others cannot? -3 to 30 models in one squad -Relentless Thus, I don't have to spend anything on them because the standard DC model comes with a Bolter allowing me to capitalize on the relentless rule letting me add more models to the squad. Plus, if you upgrade the Chapy to a Reclusiarch you gain a two for one deal by gaining an HQ and DC leader with liturgies of Blood. The only expensive part is the delivery system. He’s what mine looks like: 1x1 Reclusiarch w/ Storm Bolter 15x DC LR: Crusader w/ MM That’s 48 shots within 12" and another 48 attacks in CC. 48 shots within 12" and 48 attacks in CC.... isnt that a little overkill? Think you are burning points you could spend elsewhere to make your army more effective... Just my two cents worth but if you disagree would love to hear more about what you target with this. Lately been using small 5 man force with just bolters for harrasing softer targets... Dropped in by a SR and watch the oppenent freak out as I shoot and charge using relentless... If they get wiped, I am only out points spent for 5 of the nasty buggers while the rest of my army chews up theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 That Crusader squad sounds pretty funny(awesome) to me. Last tourney I used 6 DC with Astorath, Jump packs, 2xPW, 1TH and Bolter, 2 Bolters, 1 BP+CCW in my DOA army. They ate face, and MVP plenty of times. Don't get the crying about jump packs, they go a LONG way to negating the rage rule, hence 15 points each. Played 6 games and rage was an issue in none of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 i run them just to get the DC dread, and i will not be loading both in a stormraven most likely. i take a single thunderhammer, but after getting stuck against a dread for a long time, i'm going to probably add a PF as well and i always have a chaplain of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 does anyone equipe them all differently for wound alocation? as really the only thind dc have to beware about is vindi's and other big pie ap 1-2 templates as there going to run through most power weapon units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 i think that against things like that wound allocation wont help much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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