Drop Pods and Furioso Dreadnoughts

[LoneSniperSG]

Hello Blood Angels!

 

I've got a concern. I frequently play against my friend who loves his Blood Angels. There's no shortage of Blood Talon abuse in his army. He always drops the damned things right on top of me and lets them go to work.

 

Now, I'm trying like hell to counter the things. People are always telling me "Oh shoot them up, shoot them up." Well, yeah if I ever get a chance.

 

So now I'm starting to wonder if there's a rule violation.

 

I'll lay out what he always does:

 

His first turn. Drop Pod Assault of course. One pod comes down. He then uses his commander's special rule and calls in a second Reserve selection (Which I also have issues with. Is this legal?). And then: A wild Dreadnought appeared! Wild Dreadnought used STORMBOLTER! It's not very effective.. Wild Dreadnought used HEAVY FLAMER! It's not very effective..

 

(Yay Poke'mon for screwing with our minds)

 

Here's my concern. The things always move out of their Drop Pods, shoot at whatever they can, and then they immediately assault into Close Combat. As far as I know, my Dreadnoughts can't do that, so do the Furiosos have some kind of special rule that allows them to assault right out of a pod?

 

Things just aren't lining up for me. I've got big walking boxes charging at me after they crash-land, and people tell me I need to shoot them? Something's not right...

[Jorre]

As far as I know you can't do that unless you are using apocalypse drop pods. Which you can't use in regular games

[Sanguinarian]

Hello Blood Angels!

 

I've got a concern. I frequently play against my friend who loves his Blood Angels. There's no shortage of Blood Talon abuse in his army. He always drops the damned things right on top of me and lets them go to work.

 

Now, I'm trying like hell to counter the things. People are always telling me "Oh shoot them up, shoot them up." Well, yeah if I ever get a chance.

 

So now I'm starting to wonder if there's a rule violation.

 

I'll lay out what he always does:

 

His first turn. Drop Pod Assault of course. One pod comes down. He then uses his commander's special rule and calls in a second Reserve selection (Which I also have issues with. Is this legal?). And then: A wild Dreadnought appeared! Wild Dreadnought used STORMBOLTER! It's not very effective.. Wild Dreadnought used HEAVY FLAMER! It's not very effective..

 

(Yay Poke'mon for screwing with our minds)

 

Here's my concern. The things always move out of their Drop Pods, shoot at whatever they can, and then they immediately assault into Close Combat. As far as I know, my Dreadnoughts can't do that, so do the Furiosos have some kind of special rule that allows them to assault right out of a pod?

 

Things just aren't lining up for me. I've got big walking boxes charging at me after they crash-land, and people tell me I need to shoot them? Something's not right...

 

#1: There is NO SUCH Blood Angel "Commander's Special Rule" in our Codex that allows another pod to appear on Turn 1!?!?!?!?!?! :angry:

 

#2: Drop Pod Assault is a USR for all Space Marines and AFAIK not a single Codex - especially NOT Blood Angels - allows assault afterwards!?!?!?!?!?! :RTBBB:

 

#3: ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS make them show you their "special rules" as they're written in their specific Codex/Army Book lest you continue to be hoodwinked!?!?!?!?! :ph34r:

 

#4: Since they can NEVER assault after drop, Longfangs to rear armour will or should annihilate the threat. Be sure to split fire the pod especially if it has a locator beacon or beware of our deep-striking Land Raiders!?!?!?!?!?!?! :devil:

 

#5: May Blood Talons 'glance' the groin of your "FRIEND"!!!!! ;)

 

[EDIT: changed from ALL CAPS so as not to offend unnecessarily.]

[shatter]

edit: how the hell was I ninja-ed by someone so loud? ^^

 

regular 40k?

Aye, by default you can't assault after DS nor DS + disembark + assault. This is mentioned in the codex for everything capable of deep strike. The only exception is Vanguard Veterans after their special rule Heroic Intervention is declared and only works when they're equipped with jump packs.

 

As for second reserve selection... I'm all like whaaa?!?

 

All BA gets, is drop pod assault turn 1. Turn 2, he gets re-rolls on reserve rolls for jump infantry units deep striking (outside of stormravens), otherwise reserves are quite normal. The only further augmentation to these abilities is Corbulo's single-once-per-game-re-roll... which he can't use on a DoA roll as one can only have one re-roll per dice.

 

The only additional reserve benefit a BA commander has is Tactical Precision where a unit Dante is attached to with jump packs that arrives from reserves via deep strike does not scatter and may be simply placed where possible given terrain and 1" rules.

 

 

Your buddy has been cheating you rotten. Deliberately or stupidly... only he can answer.

[Crimson Devil]

Given the level of cheating, I would be careful considering him a friend at this point. No telling what kind of mischief this character could cause in your real life.

[LoneSniperSG]

Given the level of cheating, I would be careful considering him a friend at this point. No telling what kind of mischief this character could cause in your real life.

 

I wouldn't outright call it cheating. If I caught him cheating, he knows I'd break a pitcher of beer over his head (Space Wolf honor and such). I think he's just a little confused, and I'm glad I have the grand repository of know-wotz that is the B&C.

 

If it makes anyone feel better, my Dreadnought put his fist through one of the Furiosos. :RTBBB:

[Zid]

as others pointed out, this guys cheating his balls off

[SamaNagol]

There is no confusion. It is outright cheating.

[Leonaides]

yup- inventing rules like that that dont even appear in the codex takes deliberate thought, not a mis-reading of an existing rule. Always annoys me when something like this happens- there really is no need for it after all, its a game for fraggles sake!

[LoneSniperSG]

While we're on this, are Blood Talons really as nasty as I think they are?

 

They are, in fact, Dreadnought-sized Lightining claws which generate another attack for every successful kill made, right?

 

It's really becoming quite obvious that I, as the BRB owner, need to mark and reread critical sections of the book.

[prenelf]

i had a friend who got me into warhammer and on one of our first games he cheated so so so much we played lengthways

and he had a lot more points then me i used the tau started force and he used IG..

i was slaughtered since then all my friends make him have each part of his list clear with points cost and we check it if we dont trust him

[Malus the Destroyer]

While we're on this, are Blood Talons really as nasty as I think they are?

 

They are, in fact, Dreadnought-sized Lightining claws which generate another attack for every successful kill made, right?

 

It's really becoming quite obvious that I, as the BRB owner, need to mark and reread critical sections of the book.

 

 

Generally Str 6 Lightning claws, (Str 7 if he Furious Charged via Red Thirst or SHPriest in the vicinity) and as long as he has BOTH, he keeps generating swipes per kills with it. If you blow an arm off, he can't do that anymore. And, not that it's THAT big of a deal, but I stress that they are Str 6(7 for FC), not standard Dreadnought Str 10.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

While we're on this, are Blood Talons really as nasty as I think they are?

 

They are, in fact, Dreadnought-sized Lightining claws which generate another attack for every successful kill made, right?

Not only kill, but wound. So when he wounds your Thunder Wolf Cavalry he does get that extra attack.

 

So.. it's WS5 (i think) Str 6 (7 if he somehow gets Furios Charge and the assault)

rerolls to wound

every wound caused creates another attack.

 

It is as nasty as it looks.. but it becomes really funny when 2 furiosos with Blood Talons are in assault with each other. AV 13 and Str 6 attacks :-D

 

It's really becoming quite obvious that I, as the BRB owner, need to mark and reread critical sections of the book.

Well yes, if your friends do not own one you need to be the person that educates them. Do not be a smartass about it though, but be a teacher.

And as said above: If someone comes with a rule you don't know.. ask for them to show you where they got it. One of the plus sides of playing in a LGS is that you will always have a Codex on hand when someone 'forgets' to bring theirs and then play rule stunts like the one you described.

[LoneSniperSG]

I know I probably sound like a pansy, but he's not knowingly cheating. He's just retarded.

 

I sent him an e-mail for him to read at work tomorrow. I outlined my concerns and shared the info I learned from this thread.

[shatter]

Well, sounds like it'll all work out then. Hope you two continue to have fun.

[d@n]

I know I probably sound like a pansy, but he's not knowingly cheating. He's just retarded.

 

I sent him an e-mail for him to read at work tomorrow. I outlined my concerns and shared the info I learned from this thread.

I told you just to krak spam his dreads :tu:

[SamaNagol]

It would probably be beneficial to both of you to actually play 2 or 3 games with the BRB and the codexes there and to go through absolutely everything you both assume your units can do, cross referencing all the rules in both books.

 

It will take a long while to resolve a game, but you will have a proper and full understanding of the game by the end of it.

[JamesI]

If you've allowed Imperial Armor rules the drop pod then assault for dreads is legal. But only in Apoc or in games allowing Imperial Armor stuff.

[Burningblood]

Don't play with that dishonorable sod anymore.

[evileyevirtue]

Not only kill, but wound. So when he wounds your Thunder Wolf Cavalry he does get that extra attack.

 

Just a light clarification... any UNSAVED wounds. This can be misleading as if my furioso causes 3 wounds, but 2 guys have SS, they can still roll to save those wounds and if saved they don't count towards additional attacks.

[LoneSniperSG]

I can vaguely remember being asked whether or not Dreadnoughts could assault out of a pod, and I believe I said they could but I was not sure. I had figured in my mind that a great machine like a Dreadnought would be able to compensate for the mandatory shellshock of slamming into the ground at high speed and would be able to react much faster than his brother marines in power armor.

 

My friend and I are retarded and need re-education.

 

I told him that the fact that my Dreadnought put his fist through the Furioso and killed it should be a sign we both need to wake up and pay more attention to the rules, because with the way we were playing My Dreadnought should have been dead on Turn 1. Our misunderstanding of Blood Talons led us to think that they also counted as standard Dread CCW's, which they don't, but he doubled his Furioso's strength up to 10 to try and kill my walker. Both attempts failed and then mine turned around and laid a smackdown.

 

It's just a big screwup that will be fixed, and my Blood Talon woes will dissapear with it. Thank you, Blood Angels!

 

One remaining question. Dreadnoughts coming out of a Drop Pod are not affected by the Fleet rule, right?

[JamesI]

Anyone coming out of a drop pod can still use the run rule. But Fleet does not allow them to charge after the restriction against charging from deep strike overrides Fleet.

[LoneSniperSG]

Anyone coming out of a drop pod can still use the run rule. But Fleet does not allow them to charge after the restriction against charging from deep strike overrides Fleet.

 

Is there a FAQ outlining this?

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Anyone coming out of a drop pod can still use the run rule. But Fleet does not allow them to charge after the restriction against charging from deep strike overrides Fleet.

 

Is there a FAQ outlining this?

The rule itself says so, under Deep Strike.

Check your rulebook, page 95.

[Leonaides]

Why would they???

 

Whether they have fleet or not doenst matter, as they still cant charge. Fleet allows you to charge into CC even if you ran. A Dreadnought in a Pod may not move on teh turn it arrives, but it may run instead of shooting. However, as per the Deep Strike Rules, it may not charge. UNLESS is in a Lucius Pattern Drop Pod (the Forgeworld one).