Changes fo my army list

[MTMK15]

im making some chnages to my army list to match my playing style more. after my first couple of games today, i decided to change my army list a bit. here is my current army list:

 

 

HQ- Herev VII(chapter master) Relic Blade and Storm Shield [170]

Troops 1- 10 men Tactical Squad 1 Meltagun, 1 Missle Launcher. Sergeant with power weapon [245]

and bolt pistol. Attached Rhino with 2 Storm bolters and Hunter-Killer missle

Troops 2- 10 men Tactical Squad 1 Plasma gun, 1 Lascannon. Sergeant [205]

with power weapon and bolt pistol

Elites 1- Dreadnought 2 Twin-Linked Autocannon [125]

Heavy Support 1- Predator Autocannon with Heavy Bolter Side Sponsons [85]

Heavy Support 2-Predator with Twin-linked Lascannons with lascannon Side Sponsons [165]

 

995 Points

 

Troops 1 closes with objective and/or enemies. Troops 2 provides supprt to Troops 1.

dreadnought and Heavy Support 1 pred goes with Troops to provide fire support.

Heavy Support 2 pred does loong range tank killing. Troops 1 assist to kill tanks.

HQ is with Troops 1 or 2 depending on role.

 

 

HQ- Herev VII(chapter master) with Relic Blade and Storm Shield with jump packs [195]

Troops 1- 10 men Tactical Squad 1 Meltagun, 1 Missle Launcher. Sergeant with power weapon [245]

and bolt pistol. Attached Rhino with 2 Storm bolters and Hunter-Killer missle

Troops 2- 10 men Tactical Squad 1 Plasma gun, 1 Lascannon. Sergeant [205]

with power weapon and bolt pistol

Trrops 3- 5 men Tactical Squad Attached Razorback/ with lascannons [130/165]

Elites 1- Dreadnought 2 Twin-Linked Autocannon [125]

Heavy Support 1- Predator with Twin-linked Lascannons with lascannon Side Sponsons [165]

Heavy Support 2- Thunderfire Cannon [100]

Fast Attack 1 5 men Assault Space Marine Squad [100]

Elites 2- Ironclad Dreanought.1 Seismic Hammer with attached Meltagun, 1 Dreadnought Close Combat

Weapon with attached Heavy Flamer,Ironclad Assault Launchers and 2 Hunter-Killer Missles.

Default Drop pod [180/215]

 

1480 points

 

Troops 1 closes with objective and/or enemies. Troops 2 provides supprt to Troops 1.

dreadnought and Heavy Support 1 pred goes with Troops to provide fire support.

Heavy Support 2 pred does loong range tank killing. Troops 1 assist to kill tanks.

Troops 3 does only fire support to Troops 1 and 2. Thunderfire cannon gives long range support

Assault marines, HQ and Ironclad melee the enemy.

 

add these for 2000 points:

 

Elites 3- 5 men terminator squad. 1 assault cannon and 4 chainfists.[250]

OR

6 men legion of the damned squad. 1 Meltagun, 1 Lascannon. Sergeant with power weapon [250]

Heavy Support 3- Land Raider with 2 Twin-Linked Lascannon Sponsons and 1 Twin-Linked [250]

Heavy Bolter

 

1995 points

 

Troops 1 closes with objective and/or enemies. Troops 2 provides supprt to Troops 1.

dreadnought and Heavy Support 1 pred goes with Troops to provide fire support.

Heavy Support 2 pred does loong range tank killing. Troops 1 assist to kill tanks.

Troops 3 does only fire support to Troops 1 and 2. Thunderfire cannon gives long range support

Assault marines, HQ and Ironclad melee the enemy.

Landraider gives long range tank killing while the Termies/Damned give close fire support/long

range fire support

 

after my games today, i realized my army focuses a lot on heavy firepower at long range so i decided to make some changes to my army list but im stuck at some tactical indecision:

 

1st, my chapter master. in my army, i realized a pure CC HQ was completely useless to me so im chnaging him. i ripping off his storm shield and replacing it with a storm bolter. but that leaves 17 points in my 1000 army and i am stuck between artificer armour or hellfire rounds. or perhaps something else? im aslso removing his jetpack for the 1500 army list cuz i don't see the point in it anymore.

 

2nd, my tactical squad 1. do i keep the melta which i hardly use or exchange it for the plasma gun?

 

3rd, after re-checking my army list, i reliaze i have 117 points left to spare for my 1500 army list if i rip out the razorback and its troop. so should i upgrade my assault squad to a vanguard squad with lots of CC havoc ( i was think of 2 lightning claws and jet packs for all) or add something else?

 

4th, should i have a termie squad for my 3rd elite choice or get another heavy support and get devastators with 4 lascannons OR a 5 men sterngurad vet team with 2 lascannos and a sergeant power weapon with a 5men scout sniper squad with camo cloaks.

[DarkGuard]

OK, I'm going to try and tackle this in three sections: overall, 1000pts, 1500pts, 2000pts. Feel free to disregard anything I say, an army list is inherently a personal thing and I'm not you.

 

Overall

Chapter Master - why him over a Captain? Do you want Honour Guard? Doesn't look like it. Do you want Orbital Bombardment? Possibly, but is 25pts worth it? If you want a combat character you've come to the right place, take either a Chapter Master or a Captain, they will cut their way through armies. My favoured combat built is relic blade, storm shield, digi weapons, arty armour and possibly a jump pack. My favoured all round build is a relic blade, boltgun, hellfire rounds, digi weapons and arty army. Why do I mentioned the last choice? Because he sits in a quad-plasma gun Command squad, very shooty and very nasty.

 

If on the other hand you just want a support choice (and don't want Honour Guard or Command squads), then take a Librarian. A bog-standard Libby with Null Zone and Avenger is 100pts. Null Zone helps take out elite choices, while Avenger is a handy power for taking out infantry.

 

Tactical squad melta - don't know, depends on what you're facing. At the moment it's more or less your only melta in the list, and if you face a lot of mech you need to remedy that. So I'd say keep it. If however, you're convinced that you won't use it much I'd consider using the plasma gun and pairing it with a multi-melta. Both have the same range bands and threaten the same things, perfect match.

 

A general point on your Tactical squads. You are overspending madly. Rhino with additional storm bolter and a hunter-killer missile? The thing is a transport, not a battle tank. Power weapon on your sit back squad? Power weapons really aren't worth it in general, less so on a Tactical squad. If you take out both the power weapons and the Rhino upgrades you can buy another Rhino for your other squad. Drop the lascannon to a multi-melta, replicate that with your first squad, and you've freed a few more points as well. You've then given yourself two units which provide excellent midfield support, even more so if you can give them combi-plasmas.

 

Vanguard vs Assault Marines: unfortunately Vanguard with jump packs are one of the most overpointed units in the Codex. If you're going to run your Chapter Master with this squad, then you'll be fine with a 10 man squad of Assault Marines. Give them two flamers and a power fist (or thunder hammer), and they'll do OK most of the time, just not all of the time. They do all right, just don't expect them to be game winners.

 

Final selections choice: quite frankly, none of the above. You're fine for long-ranged firepower. Terminators are a solid choice, actually keep them, I've thought of something better. You need fast melta, like a squad of two attack bikes or MM/HF Speeders. How to pay for them? You can drop the Legion of the Damned. As much as I like them they're overpointed and inefficient, and any Libby with Null Zone will rip them to pieces. If you go for MM ABs you can get two such squads in, or with a few more points you can get two squadrons of MM/HF Speeders.

 

 

1000pts

Basically, the main thing is to fix those Tactical squads. Also, you say the Chapter Master sometimes goes with Tactical squad 1. Do you combat squad them then, because otherwise he can't fit in their Rhino which is transport capacity 10, and running along behind will only get him shot.

 

Tri-las Preds are also too expensive. Combi-preds (autocannon and las sponsons) do a much better job for a smaller points cost. My friend used one against me today and if I remember correctly it claimed the life of three Land Speeders and a Rifleman Dreadnought, which is pretty much half of more long-ranged firepower. The other option is to run it as a dakka pred. Personally, I'd run both preds as the same config, depending on your metagame. Dakka if you see a lot of footslogger lists, combi if you run into a lot of mech lists and monstrous creatures. Just remember that preds are static support, they aren't designed to move up in support as they can only move 6" if you want to fire, and even then you can only fire one weapon.

 

 

1500pts

Most of the time you want to keep the stuff in your 1000pts list when you go two 1500pts. This means keeping both Preds if they do well for you, put the TFC in afterwards.

 

I'd definitely drop that Razorback squad, you don't need it. Spend the points on bulking up that Assault squad instead and give them two flamers and a power fist. 5 men with no upgrades will do nothing. Do you really need a Chapter Master? A Captain pretty much does the same thing except for cheaper. Sure you miss out on OB, but its a 25pt lottery ticket and you want to keep moving.

 

Dreadnoughts seem fine, although I'd try and find a way to get fast melta in, like Attack bikes and Land Speeders.

 

 

2000pts

Assuming you took two Preds of dakka or combi variety in 1500pts, here's my ideas. Drop the upgrades on ther Terminator squad, turn them into Assault Terminators. Turn the Land Raider into a Crusader or Redeemer, complete with multi-melta and extra armour. Take the jump pack off the Chapter Master, stick him with the Terminators.

 

Drop the Legion of the Damned, and replace with two MM/HF Land Speeders. With the remaining points take either your TFC, or take a Chaplain with jump pack and perhaps digi weapons if you can afford them, attaching him to the Assault squad.

 

 

Hope that's given you a lot to think about. If I were you I'd look to getting your 1000 and 1500pt lists spot on before attempting 2000pts. That includes playtesting everything, seeing what you like and what you could do without. Best of luck.

[MTMK15]

thats some insightful advice. thx.

 

well 1st, i did get a chapter master just to get orbital bombardment :P i used it throughout my games and i kinda like it but the chance or scattering makes me skeptical about it. maybe a captain would be a better choice then i'll give some heavy weapons that can shoot more than once to the rest of my squads. and if i play him with relic blade, digital weaps, arty armour and storm bolter in my 1k army, how do i use him well cause the idea of him being the only unit advancing makes me cringe. he is not going to live long.

2nd, is advancing and rushing advised with tactical squads? like advancing then hiding behind cover to bring their rapid fire and heavy weapons to bear? im kinda iffy about the multi-melta as that reduces my long range support. but your right on some points. the couple of games i played today under-used my tac squads and i kinda left them in the back to ur the lascannons. so maube if i advance both squads and have multi-meltas i can use them to their full extent.

 

3rd, i forgot about the tri-las preds. i already exchanged them and shuffled them out for the autocannon with lascanon sponsons variant. much better overall at support i say.

 

4th, your right about the chapter masters or captains, i have to run them with my assault squad, his 6WS and 5 attacks combined with his initiative 5 is a lethal close in unit. but i feel like im leaving him out if i go with assault squads and he's the only one without a gun. i think 3 points if rly good for a storm bolter :lol: also, y a power fist for the assault squad? it reduces their initiative. isn't a power sword or smth more worth it?

 

5th, so 2 rhinos for my tac squads? cuz i think rhinos are kinda big targets when transporting units...i was thinking of the squad in the rhino advances while the squad with the plasma keep their lascannon and provides support and the other one deploys further out to use thier multi-melta.

 

6th, i rly dont want to get another close combat squad full of termies. i think i'll probably switch them out for sternguards with 2 lascannons and scouts with sniper rifle wihich is around the same in terms of points and add the termies to my 2500 point army as another "around the back" surprise deployment army

 

lastly, are multi melta attack bikes a good idea? cuz after clearing up my 1000 point list, i have 77 points left, enough for just 1.

[Br0ther Rafen]

For your 1st point (how to use the Captain), I usually use him as either a counter assault unit if I am playing defensively, or as a buffer for my Tacticals as I use them very aggressively. Your right on the lone advance as he will be shot to bits in seconds with ablative wounds/transport to protect him.

For the 2nd point, rushing them forward to get the grips with the enemy isn't really a good idea against some opponents (like Orks). Overall, it depends on how you use them. I like to use them as bait to lure opponent squads into the line of fire of my guns using Combat tactics. Others like them to be "moving bunkers" in their Rhino's with a Multi-Melta and Plasma gun (or something like that). Depends on your style of play.

For your 4th point, how do you mean "the only one without a gun"? Assault marines only have Bolt Pistols and CCW's so that they can get extra attacks. The Captain with a SS and Relic Blade without a BP doesn't really mater, as he makes up for this with CC power.

Also, PF's on Assault Squads are VITAL because they need all the extra help they can get. PW's are good, imo anyway, but PF's give you extra oomph against anything big and scary. Depends what you regularly verse as PF's don't help verses hordes, but PW's don't help against MC's.

5th point, Rhino's are awesome because they give your tacs some more protection against enemy fire. If you don't plan on using the Rhino, at least get a Razorback for additional firepower if your Las-cannon sniping. Others might be more helpful on this subject.

6th point, Sternguard are usually used with just Bolters for maximum versatilty, but HW's aren't bad though. If your in defense, they can lay down some extra firepower (which is very helpful), but if your attacking it will become annoying losing the extra SIA Bolter. Also, am I right in guessing the Sniper Scouts are in a 5 man squad? If they are, then swap them out for something else as they are really weak unless your shooting MC's, which still isn't very good.

I hope this helps.

[DarkGuard]

Br0ther Rafen has some fantastic points, almost like he read my mind....

 

Agree with him on pretty much all of those points, a lone Captain can be handy as counter-assault. If you're using a squad out of a transport though then consider a boltgun with hellfire rounds, better than a storm bolter IMO as you hit on 2s and wound on 2s.

 

Again, it depends on the enemy and your list. If you've got support in the form of Sternguard, Terminators etc then you can rush your Tactical squads forward. My squads are commonly armed with combi-flamer, flamer, multi-melta in Rhinos. It's similar to plasma guns but sacrifices a bit of firepower against MCs, Terminators and light vehicles for increased firepower against horde and even Space Marines. IMO Tactical Marines should play to their strengths most of the time with special weapons, and looking at their boltguns that strength is anti-infantry. A multi-melta however, makes them more diverse and lets them take out tanks and MCs from inside the safety of their Rhino. Plus it's free, you can't go wrong with free heavies.

 

Your point about losing range from heavies is valid, but I try to play midfield as much as I can. In two objective games it instead gives me a very strong unit to look after my objective. In kill points and multi-objective games I can sit in midfield and support my attack, no one likes multi-meltas. If however, range means a lot to you then go for missile launchers. Can still knock tanks and MCs out at range, but also good against infantry. My favourite weapons to pair with missile launchers are meltagun/combi-melta. Mainly because in that squad I only want to fire the missile launcher once they grab an objective, and their prime purpose is getting into range with their meltas. But you can use flamers to good effect as well. I wouldn't recommend plasma with them. The other weapon to think about are plasma cannons. Not amazingly effective against vehicles, but brilliant against all infantry, and they have range.

 

Afraid you can't get 5 attacks with a Chapter Master or Captain if you're using a relic blade and/or storm shield. They have 3 attacks basic, and both the relic blade and storm shield prohibit the ability to gain an additional attack through having two close combat weapons. If you want 5 attacks you need either a power weapon and bolt pistol, or two lightning claws, or two power fists, or two thunder hammers. The first two are either expensive and/or lacking survivability and flexibility in what they can kill, the second two are expensive and don't take advantage of I5. And I wouldn't worry about the storm bolter. A 3++ save is much much much much better than 2 S4 shots, trust me. The only weapons in an assault squad designed to do damage at range are pretty much their flamers (maybe plasma pistols but they're too expensive), and then the rest jump in to mop up.

 

And why power fists? Pretty much every reason Br0ther Rafen said, in Assault squads they are much better than power weapons etc. You only reduce the initiative of one person, but in return you get 2/3 S8 armour save ignoring attacks. That's powerful enough to bust through tanks, knock down MCs and still destroy infantry. O, and he's able to instant kill most ICs with that, well worth the points IMO. Let your Captain and rest of the squad deal with infantry.

 

Again, 35pts for a Rhino is a brilliant investment. Immunity and mobility. And big targets? If you've built your list right there will be bigger targets. Like your combi-preds, and your fast melta, and your big death star squad. Target saturation is the key. In my 1500pts Libby list I have 3 Rhinos, 2 Land Speeders, 2 Dreads and 2 Vindicators. With the Dreads, Vindys and Land Speeders the Rhinos are normally ignored, which is the idea. Just don't buy all the upgrades. Extra weapons aren't worth it, it's not a shooting tank. Extra armour isn't worth it either, overpointed. Dozer blades are, but add them on at the end. And I suppose if you have a big squad you want to get somewhere (think Veteran squad of some description), you could benefit from extra armour, but again, add it on at the end.

 

Here's an idea then. Either have a 10 man squad of normal Terminators with two cyclones (couple of chainfists are optional), or have a big Sternguard squad in a Rhino with power fist and some combis, maybe a couple of heavy flamers. In my Libby list I run a 9 man squad (lets my Libby run with them) with power fist, two heavy flamers and four combi-meltas. Lets them destroy infantry, take out tanks, and be generally flexible, very handy squad to have. One idea to consider, especially if you haven't got much melta (which you haven't), is two meltaguns and two combi-meltas. Load into a Rhino, or Drop Pod (maybe a Razorback if it's a small squad, power fist if it's big), and use it to take out tanks. Your other units can then knock out the survivors. I wouldn't go for lascannons though as you already have two combi-preds. I say meltas (normal or combi) might be worth it as combi-preds generally struggle against AV13+, meltas don't.

 

Lastly, fast melta in general is a good idea. There are many ways to deliver it. Either a Dreadnought or Ironclad (which I remember you have in 1500pts) in a Drop Pod, or a Sternguard squad with melta. Drop next to what you want dead and let fly. The other way is by putting them on fast attack choices. The main candidates are attack bikes and Land Speeders. Attack bikes are better than bikes due to being cheaper and getting multi-melta which have a better range than meltaguns. MM/HF Land Speeders, on the other hand, are slightly more expensive than attack bikes, but have more deployment options, better mobility with the ability to jump over things, and can use their heavy flamers to torch infantry. I've used both and while MM ABs are OK, at the moment I'll swear by MM/HF Land Speeders. Interestingly I'll only ever run MM ABs in squads of 2, but I'll prefer my MM/HF Speeders in squadrons of 1, don't know why.

[MTMK15]

hmm, i actually agree with all your points. thx for the help. except for one :)

 

my captain is armed with a storm bolter in the 1k list as i want him to advance with Tac squad 2, the one running 2 meltas. i just thought the extra 3 points were worth it as now he can kill targets with them when they settle down to bring their multi melta to play. a bolt pistol seems pointless among bolters.

 

also, now i need advise again. im planning on running 3 fast attacks of any kind with melts. im thinking of having a land speeder with H.V bolter or H.V flamer to support my MM ABs in my 1.5k list. it that a good idea.

 

AND the heavy weapons for my tactical squad. i just got my devastator set today. is 1 lascannon for the supprting tac squad and 1 multi melta for the advancing squad good? cuz the multi melta and bolters will create a field of death 24' around them and the lascannon helps removes tanks?

 

and because of these new changes, i have to buy more units. argh, time to save up again......

[DarkGuard]

IMO a storm shield is a much better investment than a storm bolter. 2 S4 AP5 shots will do near enough nothing in the scheme of things. A 3++ save, on the other hand, will do a lot. It means your Captain can safely soak up plasma shots that would kill your other guys, and the same can be said of power weapons. It makes him all round more durable and therefore more of a threat as he'll be punching for longer.

 

Why take MM ABs and heavy flamer Speeders when you could take MM/HF Speeders. Think about it for a minute. Say you've taken 2x2 MM ABs and 1x2 HF Speeders. That costs you 300pts overall. If, however, you were to combine them to 2x2 MM/HF Speeders you're only paying 280pts. You've saved 20pts and you've got the same effect, in fact, you've got better. Your fast melta has better deployment options and mobility, and they can also take out infantry now as well. Small arms firepower won't be able to hurt you (think lasguns and vehicle explosions), while boltguns will struggle more to hurt you. Finally, for 20pts less you've managed to get in two more heavy flamers, much better IMO. If you want Speeder support for MM ABs then I'd go for Typhoons, as otherwise you might as well go for MM/HF Speeders instead.

 

And finally, the Tactical squad. IMO, I still think that should be midfield with the other squad, identically equipped. 1 lascannon won't do much, and you're paying for it. You've got two combi-preds, that's 4 lascannons already. Do you really need a 5th? That Tactical squad could do so much more in midfield with the other, while the one Tactical in midfield will struggle without more support. Long-range anti-tank isn't always about the strength of a shot, it's about the quantity. A Rifleman Dread will always be better than a TL-LC Dread, despite having S7 instead of S9. The reason? The Rifleman has 4 TL shots, while the TL-LC Dread has only 1 TL shot. More shots mean you're more likely to hit, more likely to penetrate, and more likely to get a result you want. 3 penetrating shots will wreck a vehicle, while 1 penetrating shot has a 1/3 chance of doing that.

[MTMK15]

hmmm, its going to be hard fitting the MM Speeders in...there're 60 pts each.

 

and i dun think i'll arm both squads similarly. the other i'll give a plasma cannon. might be more useful against hordes and still can kill vehicles.

 

currently my list looks like this:

 

Unit type Name Description Points

HQ Captain Astaroth artificer armour and a storm bolter 118

 

Troops 1 10 men Tactical Squad 1 Meltagun, 1 multi-melta 210

Attached rhino

Troops 2 10 men Tactical Squad 1 Plasma gun, 1 Lascannon. 185

Elites 1 Dreadnought 2 Twin-Linked Autocannon 125

Fast Land speeder 2 land speeders with multi-melta 120

Attack 1 squadron

Heavy Predator Autocannon with Lascannon 120

Support 1 Side Sponsons

Heavy Predator Autocannon with Lascannon 120

Support 2 Side Sponsons

998 Points

 

Unit type Name Description Points

add on Captain Astaroth add a jump pack, relic blade and digtal 65

weapons

Heavy Thunderfire Cannon default 100

Support 2

Fast 5 men Assault Space 1 flamer and a power fist 125

Attack 2 Marine Squad

Elites 2 Ironclad Dreanought 1 Seismic Hammer with attached 180

Meltagun, 1 Dreadnought Close Combat

Weapon with attached Storm Bolter

Default Drop pod

1468 points 32

 

Eltes 3 5 men Terminator cyclone missle launcher and 2 chainfists 240

Squad

Heavy Land Raider Land Raider with 2 Twin-Linked 260

Support 3 Lascannon Sponsons and 1 Twin-Linked

Heavy Bolter with multi-melta

1968 points

[DarkGuard]

First off, can I just say the format you've tried to do in describing your list is simply awful. Sorry, there's no easy way to say it. I found it very difficult to read and comprehend. Try something more like this:

 

HQ:

Captain: relic blade, storm = xxxpts

 

Troops

Tactical 1: 10 men w/ plasma gun and multi melta

 

You get the idea. If you put in that bit of effort to make the list easier to read then people will find it easier to help.

 

 

Anyway, I still don't understand why you're so attached to the storm bolter. I mean, the thing's 3pts, I'm pretty sure the developers didn't like it either. In the first list a bolt pistol is better to get an extra attack, and you might as well switch arty armour in the first list to a power weapon or preferably a lightning claw. If you go for the lightning claw than a storm bolter is more understandable, but I still don't stand by the idea that an extra two shots will make a world of difference. A storm shield, or relic blade, or even hellfire boltgun, will. Or if you want a budget HQ, consider a Libby or Chaplain. You won't have to use them in 1500pts if you don't want to, and they come with some cool special abilities and a free power weapon.

 

In the first list it looks fine. Personally I'd normally swap the two specials round, plasma guns complement multi-meltas better, but you don't have transport on your lascannon squad. I am still perplexed by that squad. Lascannon? Really? You've got two combi-preds, two melta Speeders and a Rifleman Dread, plus a meltagun and a multi-melta in the first squad. Do you really need more anti-tank? Especially when you're paying 10pts for it and making the whole squad sit back?

 

If you want an objective sitter squad for your objectives in your deployment zone then I can think of better squads. 5 Scouts with snipers are good, as even with camo cloaks and a heavy bolter they are only 100pts. That's a small investment for securing an objective. They don't do damage and aren't meant to, instead they hit the dirt every time the enemy looks at them and get a 2+ cover save. Or if you really want a lascannon then a 5 man Tactical squad in a las plas Razorback. More mobile, more durable, and still scoring, and it only costs 165pts. Maybe put a combi-flamer on the Sergeant for 175pts. Or if you want a big 10 man Tactical squad sitting on the objective, then consider putting a plasma cannon in the squad instead. You need some anti-infantry, and the plasma cannon would be perfect for landing on squads that your combi-preds have forcibly disembarked, while still being able to blow up transports. And its 5pts cheaper than a lascannon. I'm sorry, but I feel that you can get more from that squad than a lascannon.

 

If you're going for melta Speeders you might as well save 10pts for MM ABs. The Speeders I was talking about were Speeders with a multi-melta and heavy flamer on each one. Prime job is anti-tank, but when the tanks are gone those heavy flamers come in handy, especially on the guys inside. If it's just melta though then stick with MM ABs, they have a lower profile and are cheaper. If you want MM/HF Speeders then you can get the points by dropping some weapons on the Tactical squad, sticking with the free weapons, which are by no means bad.

 

Rest of the list looks fine.

 

For the 1500pts list, now I really can't understand why you have the storm bolter on your Captain. A storm shield will benefit you in more ways. 2 S4 shots are the ability to be more likely to avoid power weapon and power fist wounds? I know I'm aiming for the storm shield. My own jump Captain when I use him is 195pts, outfitted with a relic blade, storm shield, arty armour, digi weapons, and off course, a jump pack. Well worth it IMO, the storm shield makes him durable, and he hits hard. I put him in a 10 man Assault squad with two flamers and a thunder hammer. I'm sorry but a 5 man Assault squad will not cut it. Even with a power fist and a flamer they are very weak, and you will keenly feel any casualties you take. They really do need to be 10 men strong to make an impression.

 

Is the TFC instead of a combi-pred? Because I urge you not to do that. Those combi-preds should be the base of your anti-tank, you don't want to replace one. If you really want it but can't fit it in take out the Rifleman. I find tanks work best in pairs, and that's a good way to do it. So base your anti-tank around two combi-preds or two Rifleman, but not one of each. Redundancy is key here. And talking about Dreads, just one comment on the Ironclad, you'll find more use out of a heavy flamer than a storm bolter. For 10pts its one of the best upgrades in the Codex. It also lets you choose to hit tanks or infantry when you touch down. A storm bolter is not a good anti-infantry weapon, a heavy flamer is.

 

With those spare 32pts, spend 20pts on putting HFs onto your MM Speeders if you haven't already or changed them to MM ABs. Or, sorry, better yet, drop the storm bolter on the Captain and buy your second Tactical squad a Rhino.

 

And with the final 2000pts add on, I'd suggest having the Land Raider as a dedicated transport. Frees up HS slots for the ability to field both combi-preds and a TFC if you want, and costs the same. Plus, you don't have to deploy the Terminators in there, you just can't deploy anyone else. But that isn't a problem, as you can still start a unit behind the Land Raider and the jump them in first turn before it moves. Which is actually safer as if they are hidden anti-infantry weapons can't shoot them, and if the tank blows up they take a lower strength hit and can't get pinned.

 

Anyway, that's all I have to say about the list. Best of luck.

[MTMK15]

firstly, sorry for the horrible format. i plan my army in microsoft excel and just kinda copy it over to here hence the horrible format. it looks a lot better in excel.

 

and for the captain. i checked the stats and yes, i now agree the storm bolter is a waste of 3 pts....but i also do not want to take the storm shield. for 15 pts im raising my captains invulnerable save from 4+ to 3+. i think i'll go with lightning claw and hellfire boltgun. but the problem with hellfire boltgun is that i can't assault after shooting it so that means he's stuck in the back with the tac squad unless in my 1500 pts he switches out for hellfire bolt pistol and run with the assault squad.

 

and for the assault squad, im not running them with 10 men cuz i only use the 5 of them to harrass the enemy around. maybe with 10 men they'll do more damage but at 5 they're just for thinning the enemies ranks by deep striking behind them. so i dun think i want to run my captain with them anyway. way to valuable to lose like that. i rather use him as an addon to one of the tac squads then dieing with the ASM. but then should i take ASMs? i've always been stuck on that question. i suppose with a powerfist they'll do some damage behind enemy lines and maybe wipe out 1 squad but im kinda iffy on them. i mainly use them as they make a nice supplement for the ironclad going with them to bash heads in behind the enemy.

 

btw, is the 20 points for the ironclads hunter killers worth it? i thought he might need some extra oomph against things like a deffie

 

also, after sorting out all my points, i got 35 pts leftover on my 1500 lists which is as such:

 

HQ

Captain: hellfire boltgun, lightning claw = 125 pts

 

Troop 1

Tactical squad: 10 men wtih plasma gun and plasma cannon with attached rhino = 220 pts

 

Troop 2

Tactical squad: 10 men with meltagun and multi-melta with attached rhino = 210 pts

 

Fast Attack 1

Land Speeder squadron: 2 land speeder with multi-melta and heavy flamer = 140 pts

 

Fast Attack 2

Assault Space Marine squad: 5 men with flamer and power fist = 125 pts

 

Elites 1

Dreadnought: 2 twin linked autocannons = 125

 

Elites 2

Ironclad Dreadnought: Seismic hammer with meltagun, DCCW with heavy flamer. drop pod = 180

 

Heavy Support 1

Predator: autocannon with 2 lascannon sponsons = 120 pts

 

Heavy Support 2

Predator: autocannon with 2 lascannon sponsons = 120 pts

 

Heavy Support 3

Tunderfire Cannon = 100 pts

 

total = 1465 pts

so i got 35 pts left. should i splurge on my captain and mebbe upgrade him back to a chapter master or buy something else for him.

[Br0ther Rafen]

Becuase it is late over here, I can't be bothered to make a propwer response. But I will make a few points:

First, the TFC is a very nice gun, and can see why you are attracted to it. But since you are still building an army and learning the rules, it would be better to stear clear of it for now until you are more experianced, otherwise making lots of mistakes will lead to you hating the thing and not using it.

Secondly, your Captain can ALWAYS benefit from a SS. Reason being that while it is only +1 to the invuln, that +1 makes your Captain more durable, and thus can swing for longer in combat. For example, a Iron Halo gives a 4++ which is a 1/2 of failing the save right? Well, the SS is 3++, which blocks 2/3 times. See how much improvement you get? Now 2 Plasma wounds won't kill your Captain, or 2 PF attacks won't ID, etc. It's just makes him hardy, not to mention protecting the sqaud he is with from plasma and such.

Hope this helps, I will finish my reply tomorrow.

[DarkGuard]

I agree with Br0ther Rafen about the storm shield, but hellfire boltgun isn't too bad. Just so you know, you won't be able to put the Captain in a transport unless you combat squad a squad. Otherwise he's footslogging on his own. To avoid that I would recommend giving him a jump pack, and switching the hellfire boltgun to another lightning claw, gives you a cool character for your assault squad. Leaves you with 5 points for meltabombs or something.

 

Another idea is a Libby. A Libby is a fantastic support character, better than the Captain. It just seems to me that you're using your Captain more as support, and therefore a Libby might be better. Or a jump Chaplain for the Assault squad. Will boost them a lot, and isn't as valuable as a Captain.

 

I like this list a lot more, but that could just be the format <_<.

 

Seriously, it looks more balanced, the Tactical squads cover each other, you've got lots of long-range firepower for anti-tank and enough melta to get rid of the bigger tanks. The Assault squad would be something worth reevaluating every few games. Just ensure that you're main reason for their inclusion is as a cleaner unit, mopping up the remnants.

 

The Dreadnoughts seem fine, it's your call on the HKMs. I'm not a massive fan of one shot weapons, especially HKMs. There are better things for the points, I do feel you're get better utility out of the points by giving your Captain a jump pack. However, if you don't want to put him in there, then I suppose HKMs, or arty armour for the Captain would be better.

[MTMK15]

hmm, i get your point on the storm shield, i can allocates wounds from plasma weaps and stuff over to him. but how about my second suggestion? is making him a chapterr master with the 35 points worth it? its 25 pts to change him from captain to chapter master

[DarkGuard]

I'd ask yourself two questions. 1) do you want to use Orbital Bombardment? 2) do you want to use Honour Guard. If the answer to any of them is 'yes', then take the Chapter Master.

 

If the answer is 'no', then ask yourself another question: can I spend the points on anything else that is better/useful? If the answer is 'yes', then don't upgrade, and if the answer is 'no' then upgrade.

 

Also, if you like fluff then ask yourself about how it would fit into fluff. That's one reason as to why I would never take a Chapter Master, I play a 3rd Company list so the highest ranking guy with my army is the Captain.

[MTMK15]

i play third company Guardians of the Covenant as well. and yes, i'll love to use orbital bombardment. nothing better to wreck the opponents army with. and i know 3rd company highest ranking officer is captain but i thought maybe the chapter master himself came down to help out :D

[DarkGuard]

i play third company Guardians of the Covenant as well. and yes, i'll love to use orbital bombardment. nothing better to wreck the opponents army with. and i know 3rd company highest ranking officer is captain but i thought maybe the chapter master himself came down to help out :D

 

I suppose to be honest, there's no reason as to why a Captain cannot call down an Orbital Bombardment, just call him Captain in the army list but pay for a Chapter Master (and no using Command squads).

 

And nice to see a fellow Dark Angel Successor. My Chapter is the Knights Seraphic, and we don't like the Hunt, but shush, don't tell the Dark Angels that :D.

[MTMK15]

yeah, always wondered about that. most battle barges and strike cruisers of the space marines have exterminatus batteries and stuff so why can't a captain call in an orbital bombardment. btw, what did you name your captain? Dark Angels were traditionally named after fallen angels so i've called mine Astaroth.

 

and yeah, i'll like orbital bombardment. makes the enemy scared :D

[DarkGuard]

I named mine Angrod Carnesir. True it's probably not a Fallen Angel name, but my Captain is kind of the personification of me on the battlefield, and that's a name I've been using for pretty much all characters for ages. And my Chapter's a bit different, we don't do things the Dark Angel way, but sometimes we do. The equivalent of my First Captain is called Lutharian, something he struggles with day after day considering it bears a startling resemblance to Luthar.

 

Anyway, there's a time and place for background discussions. ;)

 

OB is all right, I've used it once or twice to full effect, and as many times with it missing. The one reason I don't like it is that I feel compelled to fire it first turn, which means my army doesn't move for a turn, or one unit doesn't, and I don't like that. However, by the sound of the way you're using your Captain he's in more of a counter-attack role so you can afford to let him sit back for a turn and call down an Orbital Bombardment. Remember that he can shoot anything on the table with it, but that if he's part of a unit they have to shoot the same target, so in that case shoot at something you see, don't shoot for a turn, or have him as a separate unit for a bit.

 

The other question is what to do with the 10 remaining points? Actually, a quick question, what squad is your Captain joining? Because there's no room in the Tactical squads and he'll slow the Assault squad down? IMO he'd work best with the Assault squad, so either a jump pack will suffice, or take the jump packs off of the Assault squads and give them a free Rhino, with some careful positioning they'll be perfect for supporting your Tactical squad.

 

Anyway, hope you find a good use for those last 10 points, my go to would be digi weapons but the Captain doesn't need them because he has a lightning claw. In the end, it could be something as mundane as meltabombs. :P

[MTMK15]

i could give my captain a combi-plasma or melta in addition to hellfire rounds after i make him a chapter master....

[DarkGuard]

That would probably work, melta is often awful on their own, and so it plasma, but if you stick him with one of the squads' with plasma or melta then you double their shooting. Personally, now I think about it I'd stick a combi-melta on the meltagun squad, swap the heavy weapons and combat squad the now combi-melta/meltagun/plasma cannon squad. Plasma cannon can sit back and give you supporting fire, protected by your Assault squad. The combi-melta/meltagun squad is joined by the Captain and hunts down tanks and objectives, the Captains combat skills and wounds helping make up for the loss of men. And the plasma gun/MM squad sits in midfield supporting the main force. Just an idea ;).

[MTMK15]

and a pretty sound one too. but i really dislike the idea of splitting my force, i don't know why :) hmmm maybe just for to try it out i do it one day. hmmm, now to find a spare meltagun and convert it onto the bolter....

 

and gotta buy a rhino and 2 land speeders for my 1.5k army.....does anyone know a good way to scrap a rhino? i messed up my first rhino, it looks like S**t