E. Severus Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Hi, I've got a battle next week with a Dark Eldar player at my GW. We'll be playing a small 600pt battle and I really don't know what's best against the new codex. Does anyone know what tactics / list to use ? Thx in advance Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Hi,I've got a battle next week with a Dark Eldar player at my GW. We'll be playing a small 600pt battle and I really don't know what's best against the new codex. Does anyone know what tactics / list to use ? Thx in advance Castle up so that he can't pick bits off one at a time, I would expect him to have transports maybe a Ravager so have weapons to take down AV10/11 vehicles (S6+ the more shots the better and range helps). Plasma guns will help as special weapons against raiders and so on but if you feel you have enough fire power to deal with them anyway then flamers might be a good choice for killing loads when they get close enough to assault or if you have to push towards them. You will both be fairly limited at 600pts I would guess and as some DE models still haven't been done he is more likely to have warriors or wyches with vehicles as I said maybe with some hellions or reavers... unless the guy has been playing DE from before the new dex or likes to convert. DE eldar are often lists that rely on the Alpha strike, if you can reduce the damage you take on the first turn and try and take out some of their speed and threats to any of yout tough units... if you have vehicles then killing ranged anti-tank (often on DE vehicles) then you have a far better chance of winning. As for unit layouts and so it would help if you said what dex you are using ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2665457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 What restrictions/allowances do you have for your 600pt game? Like do you have to take two Troops choices? If so, you'll find it hard to put in some more killer things. Anyway, like Hellios says stick together, and pack a lot of multi-shot weaponry. Heavy bolters, autocannons, missile launcher spam are all good for taking down Raiders, they are as fragile as a paper hat in water. They can take invulnerable saves, use Null Zone to pretty much negate that. Night shields shouldn't effect you much as with the right weapons you'll still outrange them. Concentrate on the transports first, makes their infantry easier to kill and blowing up transports could even take some nearby infantry with you. Don't worry too much about nasty stuff like Incubi, I doubt you'll face them in 600pts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2665614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
E. Severus Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 Well, I'm using the generic codex and As troops I would just take 1 tactical with ... EDIT: 1) Almost forgotten, due to the special rules, I can't take Heavy-Supports !!! 2) What's best: melta's or flamers ? 3) Dreads or not ? If so, what's best assault-, auto- or las ? 4) Are termies still that good against these sort of guys ? 5) Due to the scenario special rules I can also take 80pts of guardsmen, what should I give those ? 6) I'm a bit experimenting with AM's / VG's => are these good try-outs here ? Oh and I quite like to use a chapter master as HQ (orbital bombardement!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2665669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Well, I'm using the generic codex and As troops I would just take 1 tactical with ... 2) What's best: melta's or flamers ? Go with flamers, melta weapons are over-kill against DE vehicles being AV10 and open-topped! Also they have wargear that reduces your weapons range by 6 inches! Flamers will kill anything but the toughest units in the DE army. 3) Dreads or not ? If so, what's best assault-, auto- or las ? Dreads can be good the biggest risk being DE heavy support... but if he can't take that then dreads with two twin-linked auto-cannons should woop but! as they glances vehicles on 3s, wound most other units on 2s causing instant death and ignoring feel no pain! 4) Are termies still that good against these sort of guys ? Personally I feel that DE are good at killing small elite forces and with lots of low AP weapons they don't care about your armour unless you have storm shields. 5) Due to the scenario special rules I can also take 80pts of guardsmen, what should I give those ? Can these be taken from anywhere in the guard codex? Also do you have to stick to requirements such as an infantry platoon requires 1 platoon command and two infantry squads... but could you just take a single infantry squad ion this scenario? 6) I'm a bit experimenting with AM's / VG's => are these good try-outs here ? As with the terminators I personally prefer to keep these cheap however if you can hide a unit of these in your castle and give them flamers... they might well be able to provide useful counter assault. I would avoid the vanguard however Oh and I quite like to use a chapter master as HQ (orbital bombardement!) I would save the points and take a normal captain (maybe with a relic blade (causes instant death to T3) as the orbital bombardment has a lot of scatter and with only 600pts his forces might be pretty thin on the ground. Has he got any special rules? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2665756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Personally for 600pts I'd take a Libby. Give him Null Zone and something like the Avenger and put him in a Razorback Tact squad, las plas probably. Get another like that, and if you want Dreads definitely go for Rifleman Dread, 4 TL S7 shots tear Dark Eldar apart. It's up to you about Terminators. Fortunately disintigrators can't cut through their armour, and there's only so many dark lances and blasters he can take in 600pts. A small unit of 5 with an assault cannon or cyclone missile launcher could be worth it, otherwise use the points on a Rifleman or Typhoons. Although a squad of Assault Marines could be a decent counter-assault unit against DE, do you have the points? Prioritize what you need and don't buy unnecessary upgrades. So look for the cheap HQ options, cheap troops, cheap long-ranged firepower. Try and pack as much long-range firepower as you can and some flamers, and you should be fine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2665794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 t. It's up to you about Terminators. Fortunately disintigrators can't cut through their armour, and there's only so many dark lances and blasters he can take in 600pts. Unless it has been FAQed somewhere my Codex lists the Disintegrator Cannon as AP2. If he wants everything meched up he can get at least 11 blasters... I think! Not saying that is where I would go if I was building a DE army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2665860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Twin-linked autocannon dreads. They can instant-kill any of the Dark Eldar (Not including their monster thingys), they'll wound just about everything on 2's, and you'll get 4 twin linked shots which'll glance their transports on a 3, and penetrate on a 4. BOOM BABY. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2666379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Flamers are golden, just like good old rapid fire. Take 1 rhino full of marines, move 12 ", disembark, rapid fire, away go the eldar :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2666391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Eight Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 razor backs with assault cannons poooooof go the dark eldar and transports Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2666394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 t. It's up to you about Terminators. Fortunately disintigrators can't cut through their armour, and there's only so many dark lances and blasters he can take in 600pts. Unless it has been FAQed somewhere my Codex lists the Disintegrator Cannon as AP2. If he wants everything meched up he can get at least 11 blasters... I think! Not saying that is where I would go if I was building a DE army. Are they still AP2, I thought they got downgraded to AP3? O well, at least they're only S5 now. And I doubt you could get 11 blasters in a 600pt list, I mean, Dark Eldar Raiders are nearly double the price of Rhinos, and that's before upgrades. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2666546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 t. It's up to you about Terminators. Fortunately disintigrators can't cut through their armour, and there's only so many dark lances and blasters he can take in 600pts. Unless it has been FAQed somewhere my Codex lists the Disintegrator Cannon as AP2. If he wants everything meched up he can get at least 11 blasters... I think! Not saying that is where I would go if I was building a DE army. Are they still AP2, I thought they got downgraded to AP3? O well, at least they're only S5 now. And I doubt you could get 11 blasters in a 600pt list, I mean, Dark Eldar Raiders are nearly double the price of Rhinos, and that's before upgrades. I made the list and it involves a lot of trueborn in Venoms ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2666605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 land speeder storms with heavy flamers, 5 scouts with combi-flamer x2 rifleman dread libby with null zone and avenger with combat squad or 5 sternies depending on remaining points Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2666624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
E. Severus Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 Alright, But wat to do against Incubi, Archons ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2666718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Alright,But wat to do against Incubi, Archons ? Personally I'd shoot their transport, then see above comment with the Rifleman Dread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2666728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I've played a bunch of DE recently, and found they are the paper to my scissors. I still haven't lost a game to them with my regular list. Of course, that's at 2000 points. I find them to be an incredibly deadly army at lower point values, as you can't easily take the things that are best against them, such as devastators. So here's what I'd do Turn 1 Shoot down as many transports as possible. Razorbacks are excellent for this. If you can, blast any infantry you can hit with everything else. Plasma is quite nice against Archons if you can knock down their Shield with weight of fire. Of course, there was the time when he rolled a one when trying to save against the plasma gun. First shot that hit him, too. Turn 2 Shoot any remaining transports. Under no circumstances should they be allowed into assault range. If all the transports are dead, form your tanks into a rhino wall, leaving maximum possible space in between for you to shoot through. I probably should have told you to castle. Shoot up infantry. Turn 3 By now, any remaining infantry should be on you. One or two of your tanks should die to assault, but hope they don't blow them up. If they do, try shooting or tank shocking them. Their grenades don't gave good odds with only one model. If you can diminish them enough, assault them with something so they can't choose what to assault. Expect it to suffer casualties, though there was one time when I was playing Wolves, and a battle leader with five scout managed to hold out against ten wyches for the entire game, and always wining by one or two, before finally dying to the only wych left, a Hekatrix. Turn 4 By now most, if not all, should be dead. Load any survivinginfantry into the transports, and zoom around, killing stuff with the turrets. Turn 5 Victory Dance! Turn 2 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2666769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Alright,But wat to do against Incubi, Archons ? Shoot out transport with Rifleman, use Avenger from inside a Rhino, and then next turn use Null Zone and Rifleman Dread to finish off the Archon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2666940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Alright,But wat to do against Incubi, Archons ? Shoot out transport with Rifleman, use Avenger from inside a Rhino, and then next turn use Null Zone and Rifleman Dread to finish off the Archon. As Dark Guard says once they are on foot and with luck have a few turns to walk before they can get in combat they should die just like marines (well they actually have inferior T) to volly fire! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2667576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 A few turns walking distance? Negative. Several DE have fleet, so they can easily move 20 cm per turn+15 if they assault. I'll buy that they won't assault turn 1 if you blow up their transports, but by turn 2 they will certainly be on you unless they are a shooty army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2667597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 A few turns walking distance? Negative. Several DE have fleet, so they can easily move 20 cm per turn+15 if they assault. I'll buy that they won't assault turn 1 if you blow up their transports, but by turn 2 they will certainly be on you unless they are a shooty army. I would say a lot of that depends on deployment but if you have a 12 inch deployment on bothsides and a 24 inch gap, if you go first and take out transports unless you move into the DE you have a good chance of avoiding assault from Incubi on the second turn and even with a transport I wouldn't count on them getting a first turn assault. If you take into account difficult terrain and pinning then this could take even longer. Eldar (Craftworld) are my main army and I have a smaller DE force so I am aware of how fast they can move... Both can cover 36 inches in a turn but neither of those will assault on that turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2667614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 The thing about Incubi dying easier than Marines is very very true though. I had a situation once when they were bunched up due to terrain, and therefore unloaded a combi-flamer, a flamer, and 7 rapid firing boltguns into a squad of 9 with an Archon. 8 dead Incubi, including the Klaivex, and I'd say the lower toughness hurt a lot there. Also remember that as they are T3 you only need S6 to ignore FnP they may get from Pain tokens. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222933-what-to-use-against-dark-eldar/#findComment-2668266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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