Stoneface Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Dear Nephew, Have you ever seen an Astartes in the flesh? They are nothing like the picts, no gun ho “go get em’ boys” and “avenge me lads”! That is all nonsense. I have seen them as they truly are. They are terrifying: and it is not their strength, their size, and impenetrable armour or devastating weapons which scare me, but their inhumanity. In battle they do not talk, only bark streams of relevant tactical data, ++Cassius. Sweep qu.3411 yes?++ and ++acknowledged. Julius Sweep qu.3411 yes, engage with sabot++. They analyze the battlefield and judge how best to kill the enemy. As an Imperial Officer, I am under no illusion that men under fire aren’t poets, they don’t philosophise about life, or the enemy, they just try to stay alive and try to kill. But even guardsmen shout, scream, swear and even, when danger is past, laugh. The Adeptus Astartes do no such thing; they are killers plain and simple. I will relate to you an anecdote, from my time serving as a regimental attachment to the Ultramarines 3rd Company 1st strike force, when the company accepted a request to put down a revolt on one of the moons of Ilesh, or Elice, or something to that effect. During such low risk operations it is not unusual for individual marines to pair off to better rout out the enemy, and it is to one such marine I attached myself. As we scoured an abandoned manufactum a crazed women leapt from the shadows at the marine, she was unarmed, but banged her fists against his armour, in an instant he grabbed her and broke her neck. Dropping her he paused; he must have heard something I did not, for he walked over to a sheet of plasteel and pulled it away, revealing three dishevelled children, ranging from around six to twelve years. Perhaps the women had been their mother? I only had a moment to see the wretches however, for they were pulverised by the marine’s bolter in an instant. I remember being routed to the spot, stunned, whilst the marine calmly turned around and stalked off, declaring ++sector 42 clear. Redirect?++ . But what were those children’s crimes? Were they a physical threat? No, they were not; perhaps the Astartes had perceived them as a spiritual one however? It served to be a lesson, do not treat a marine as a human being, for he is not, he is a saviour, a killer, a dog of war. But if you treat him as a human, you are only inviting disappointment and horror. Perhaps the Adeptus are heroic; perhaps they do save each other from the jaws of monsters and jest as they do it. But I have not seen such in my four years attachment. Forgive these heretical thoughts Nephew, I should be congratulating you on your colonelcy, but as you are to be operating in the Ultramar system yourself, these are thoughts you should be acquainted with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenguard2010 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 What is this from, or did you write it? I enjoyed it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2665517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Priest Haelaeif Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 That is an awesome bit of fluff. Despite being short, it is really immersive. I do not quite understand the bit about attachments and pairing off - or rather, I do not see how that would make sense. The officer could simply have been left alone with a marine due to battlefield circumstance. But nevertheless, this piece is awesome. Thanks for sharing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2665540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Fisting Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Really cool bit of fluff, but I couldn't resist a bit of editing.... Take it as you will: Dear Nephew, Have you ever seen an Astartes in the flesh? They are nothing like the picts, no gung-ho, “go get 'em boys!” or, “avenge me lads!”. That is all nonsense. I have seen them as they truly are. They are terrifying. It is not their strength, their size, impenetrable armour or devastating weapons which scare me, but rather their inhumanity. In battle they do not talk as normal men, but instead only bark streams of relevant tactical data, ++Cassius. Sweep qu.3411 yes?++ and ++acknowledged. Julius Sweep qu.3411 yes, engage with sabot++. They analyze the battlefield and judge how best to kill the enemy. As an Imperial Officer, I am under no illusion that men under fire aren’t poets, they don’t philosophise about life, or the enemy, they just try to stay alive and try to kill. But guardsmen shout, scream, swear and, when the danger is past, even laugh. The Astartes do no such thing; they are killers plain and simple. I will relate to you an anecdote, from my time serving as a regimental attachment to the Ultramarines 3rd Company, 1st Strike Force, when the company accepted an invitation to put down a rising on one of the moons of Ilesh, or Elice, or something to that effect. During such low risk operations it is not unusual for individual Marines to pair off to better root out the enemy, and it is to one such Marine I attached myself. As we scoured an abandoned manufactorum a crazed woman leapt from behind cover at the Marine. She was unarmed and banged her fists against his armour. In an instant he grabbed her and broke her neck. Dropping her he paused; he must have heard something I did not, for he walked over to a sheet of plasteel and pulled it aside, revealing three dishevelled children, ranging from around six to twelve years. Perhaps the woman had been their mother? I only had a moment to see the wretches however, for they were pulverised by the Marine’s bolter in an instant. I remember being rooted to the spot, stunned, whilst the Marine calmly turned around and stalked off, declaring ++sector 42 clear. Redirect?++ . But what were the childrens' crimes? Were they a physical threat? No, they were not; perhaps the Astartes had perceived them as a spiritual one however? It served as a lesson, do not treat a Marine as a human being, for he is not. He is a saviour, a killer, a dog of war. If you treat him as human, you invite disappointment and horror. Perhaps the Astartes are heroic; perhaps they do save each other from the jaws of monsters and jest as they do it. But I have not seen such acts in my four years attachment. Forgive these heretical thoughts Nephew, I should be congratulating you on your commission, but as you are to be operating in the Ultramar system yourself, these are thoughts you should be acquainted with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2665566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoneface Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 Hi , thanks for the replies, firstly it’s not an extract from anything, it just popped into my head this morning. Secondly the whole Imperial Officer attachment thing was just a way to tell the story, if I’d have thought about it more I suppose he should have been an inquisitor, but I wrote it rather quickly. Thirdly I’ve taken some of the editing changes on board, thanks for the advice! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2665633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I rather like the idea of Ultramarines being portrayed a child butchering sociopaths. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2665662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktan Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I rather like the idea of Ultramarines being portrayed a child butchering sociopaths. I like the idea with any Space Marine, to be honest, but I think it's particularly powerful with an Ultramarine. See, if there was more fluff like this in the Codex associated with the Ultramarines, it would be an interesting spin I'd love to see on my Chapter (and maybe marines in general). Fantastic piece of work. I'm personally more of the 'Space Marines are human' inclination, but if you're going to go for the automaton approach, this is a fantastic example of it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2665672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoneface Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 I'm a big space marines fan, i'm just not sure they'd be what we'd call nice people. Or even interseting people. I always look back to the 3rd edition's discription of them as being warrior monks. With the Ultramarines supposedly being the pruest and most noble of the Space Marines i thought it would be good to shine the spot light on them. Having said that its really supposed to apply to all Space Marines, although i'm aware the chapters differ in their behavour. I'm not really a massive fan of the whole space marines are human thing, i was a little disapointed with dan abnetts book about the (iron snakes?), they came accross in that as a mixture of hellenic greek and college jock. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2665731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 To be honest though, where was this simplistic brutality when the Ultra's needed to bomb the Nightbringers mountain? Hmm? 'Oh we can't bomb the planet because there is innocents' is kinda juxtaposed to the view you've portrayed. Also why would he waste ammunition? :D He could have simply snapped their necks also. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2665869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 To be honest though, where was this simplistic brutality when the Ultra's needed to bomb the Nightbringers mountain? Hmm? 'Oh we can't bomb the planet because there is innocents' is kinda juxtaposed to the view you've portrayed. That's really his view and interpretation of the Astartes. I can't say I agree with it, but he's entitled to it and there is that view of Astartes in the background. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2665872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarStone Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 There was a piece of fluff a long time ago that had an IG lieutenant watching a BA assault squad tear through a heretic's dwelling, emerging covered in gore and meat. The IG lieutenant saluted the BA sergeant, but could barely hide his revulsion as the marine seemed completely unaware of the impact the gore was having on the "normal" human guardsmen... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2665917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Fisting Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I think the BL novels have kind of ruined Space Marines. They act a little too much like normal humans. If your life was implants, psycho-conditioning, prayer, training, prayer, training, kill, prayer, kill, kill, kill, prayer, training.... I think your emotions would be quite a bit more repressed than how the BL authors write the Astartes.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2665981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooseDaMoose Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I totally and whole-heartedly agree with you Crimson Fisting. I think it's cool to read about Space Marines when I don't always understand why they do some things. I think A D-B is actually really good at characterising pretty inhuman, yet interesting Space Marines. I really enjoyed the piece aswell, congrats! I just kinda winced at the use of "invitation" to come and quell a rebellion, like it's some sport. "Care to join us in a bit of rebel-killing, good Sir?" "Why yes, indeed that'd be lovely!" -shoots child- "Why, these rebel chaps aren't putting up much of a fight, how droll." Aaaaanyway. So yeah, good job! B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2666012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Scout Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I shall be the lone wolf it seems but I found the piece horrid. Heretics hideing behind the box all is well but children? really? Secondly everyones view that marines are inhuman killing machines without feelings I find flawed. They may well be conditioned, battle hardened, brainwashed even, yet still they are humans with emotions. How else would chaos turn marines to their side? Greed, pride, lust...all the good stuff that is human is spacemarine too. Many marine chapters have fought to protect the inocent (it is what they were created to do), celestial lions and space wolves to name but 2 chapters. Over all I didn't enjoy your story, I found it a little off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2666024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoneface Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 Hey lone wolf, I apologise that the infanticide upset you, however it is called the dark millennium after all...besides, it was not written to make people go “wahoo! Child murder” rather it was written to make people think differently about the space marines. Whilst they would die to save a worthy individual, they would kill someone they thought impure without hesitation. If you didn’t like that I don’t know what to say...erm...dark millennium? *shrugs* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2666043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Fisting Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Don't apologize for your story. Apparently Lone Scout has forgotten about a little thing call Exterminatus. You know, where entire planets (children included) are wiped out at the very hint of Chaos corruption. The 41st millennium isn't for the faint hearted. The only thing that seemed off to me was I would've had the Astartes kick in the childrens' skulls with his bootheel, since shooting them is a waste of perfectly good bolts. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2666059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Scout Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I didn't ask for an apology nor do I require one. I simply gave my opinion that you may dismiss as you see fit. @Crimson Fisting, Exterminatus is a little different from blasting kids with a bolter at close range whilst they cower behind non existing cover... don't you think? While we are at it I find you online name off too, since one can't swear due to B&C being family friendly, sexually explicit names I would have thought would have been modded too? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2666067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Fisting Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I didn't ask for an apology nor do I require one. I simply gave my opinion that you may dismiss as you see fit. @Crimson Fisting, Exterminatus is a little different from blasting kids with a bolter at close range whilst they cower behind non existing cover... don't you think? While we are at it I find you online name off too, since one can't swear due to B&C being family friendly, sexually explicit names I would have thought would have been modded too? Sexually explicit? It simply refers to smiting one's enemies with a crimson fist. Please Sir, remove your mind from the gutter. As to the earlier comment about Astartes having emotion, there's a huge difference between HAVING emotions and SHOWING emotions, and they SHOW way too many emotions in the BL novels. And, killing's killing, whether at close range or from orbital bombardment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2666072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Scout Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Sexually explicit? It simply refers to smiting one's enemies with a crimson fist. Please Sir, remove your mind from the gutter. (No that would be Crimson Smiting :lol: As for my mind...it lives in the gutters, hell of a ride in storm season![/color] As to the earlier comment about Astartes having emotion, there's a huge difference between HAVING emotions and SHOWING emotions, and they SHOW way too many emotions in the BL novels. Heresy !!![/color] And, killing's killing, whether at close range or from orbital bombardment. Trifles, its not the killing I didn't like it was the portrayal of marines gunning down kids that I find objectionable. I like my violence directed at adults, fictional or otherwise :D Perferably cultists or ][ . [/color] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2666092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 the ultramarines dont kill children, the ultras books show them to uphold life whenever possible.. its also acknowledged that several chapters dont care, but ultras arent one of those.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2666161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Priest Haelaeif Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 As I see it, any marine would have killed those children. They were the children of traitors. No way would any agency of the IoM have left them alive. Not even Salamanders would have. At least that is my opinion, my version of the 40k universe. @Lone Scout: while I can see where you are coming from, this is the grimdarkest, most dystopian fiction universe there is that we are talking about. If we cannot name the cruelty and horror inherent in it for fear of it being too harsh on anyone, then I think we should stay away from dabbling in it completely. That our so-called heroes in that fiction are actually fundamentalist mass murderers should be obvious to anyone who ever thought about the ethics of the 41st millennium. In that fiction, millions of innocent - and what does it matter what age they are? - are killed by people who are hailed as heroes by untold billions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2666388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durus Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 [...]That our so-called heroes in that fiction are actually fundamentalist mass murderers should be obvious to anyone who ever thought about the ethics of the 41st millennium. In that fiction, millions of innocent - and what does it matter what age they are? - are killed by people who are hailed as heroes by untold billions. Very true. Not much to add here, just wanted to say that I like this bit of fluff, because it reflects the way I imagine 40k to feel like much better than some of the recently published material (Thunderwolves and Blood Angel Poltergeists...). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2666585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Fisting Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 As I see it, any marine would have killed those children. They were the children of traitors. No way would any agency of the IoM have left them alive. Not even Salamanders would have. At least that is my opinion, my version of the 40k universe. @Lone Scout: while I can see where you are coming from, this is the grimdarkest, most dystopian fiction universe there is that we are talking about. If we cannot name the cruelty and horror inherent in it for fear of it being too harsh on anyone, then I think we should stay away from dabbling in it completely. That our so-called heroes in that fiction are actually fundamentalist mass murderers should be obvious to anyone who ever thought about the ethics of the 41st millennium. In that fiction, millions of innocent - and what does it matter what age they are? - are killed by people who are hailed as heroes by untold billions. Very well put, Haelaeif. People often forget that the IoM (including their beloved Astartes) is so fascist, it makes nazis look like hippies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2666708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Very well put, Haelaeif. People often forget that the IoM (including their beloved Astartes) is so fascist, it makes nazis look like hippies. I'd argue that point actually. On some worlds yes, but when you read the Cain novels you have places that are quite normal really. Read a few Gaunt's ghost novels or Eisenhorn and you have civilized, rather normal places. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2666772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkchild130 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I enjoyed that immensely, I am of the opinion that Astartes are inhuman killing machines and this characterises them perfectly. One thing irked me though. In military jargon, a "dog of war" is a mercenary. Loyal Astartes are not so it seems wrong to call them that. Darkchild Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222938-the-true-astartes/#findComment-2666791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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