Hellios Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 So I've been reading what I'm told is the new Grey Knight Codex and if this is true it says... "his (Huron Blackheart) fleets and armies are said to rival those of the traitor legions themselves." SoI've not read the new FW Badab books so I don't know if things have changed there... and I can't swear that I know all the fluff ever written about the Tyrant of Badab... However I always got the feeling that while he was powerful as Renegades goes that Huron was small time compared to those who are able to demand the 'loyalty' of large swathes of their former legion and while I'm sure Abaddon is more powerful as he can pull strings from various legions... if this claim is true would this now make Huron one of the most powerful chaos lords (in terms of what he commands) and is this new or has he always been more powerful than I percieved him to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Overlord Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I was always under the impression that Huron was nowhere near as powerful as the Legions, but the recent fluff seem to say otherwise. I find it hard to believe that in under a century he could muster enough traitor marines to match the numbers of the Legions (which most likely number in the tens of thousands each, possibly hundreds of thousands for black legion). But thats GW, lately they seem to be putting in little things like this without thinking about it too much. Look at BA codex, it contradicts all former Heresy fluff by saying Sanguinius was the commander of all of the Loyalist legions rather than Dorn... :teehee: If by "rival" they mean "pale in comparison," I'll be happy. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Well, you have the quote from the leaked pdf. Several things which may reveal more of Huron's power.... 1. If the GK PDF fluff remains for Draigo when released 2. What is mentioned in ADB's forth coming NL Novel ("Blood Reaver" which includes a Red Corsair alliance. (This I believe centers around the Marines Errant event where the RC's take their geneseed. :teehee: 3. The Sarah Cawkwell novel ("The Gildar Rift") which will include the Silver Skulls and Red Corsairs. What we know now... 1. They left the Badab war with only 200 marines and a few ships (lost much power) (Not sure if IA10 changes this or sheds new light) 2. They fought and absorbed many Pirate factions in the Maelstrom(adding power) 3. We know from the Rule book that they were successful in snatching all of the Marines Errant reserve gene seed. Now they only need recruits... I think this is big. Especially considering the Marines Errant went through great lengths to secure their gene seed, but still lost it. Unless they had been decimated and used up much of that gene seed we can assume the RC's got a huge supply. 4. Had much early success attacking Imperial shipping until they used some type of "convoy" system 5. Are getting constant flow of small and single loyal now turned traitor marines as recruits. My Assumption/opinion.. I think they are becoming very powerful. After Badab, there are not many setbacks. (as far as I know) and between some of the successes, throwing in his lot with Chaos coupled with Huron's insatiable ambition, I think he is in s very good position of power. Also keep in mind there are no sizable traitor Legions in the Maelstrom. WB's are there but I don't think they are large, and even if they are, they could be encouraging Huron's rise to power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 You also have to remember, each Codex is written based on the viewpoint of their own faction. Meaning it's supposed to be biased and make their faction seem bigger / better. It also means that just as there is no almighty omnipotent power in the Warhammer-verse, sometimes things will be blown out of proportions in opposite codecii as well to represent them not knowing the full picture but basing their assumptions on what their know. TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Well, you have the quote from the leaked pdf. Several things which may reveal more of Huron's power.... 1. If the GK PDF fluff remains for Draigo when released 2. What is mentioned in ADB's forth coming NL Novel ("Blood Reaver" which includes a Red Corsair alliance. (This I believe centers around the Marines Errant event where the RC's take their geneseed. :tu: 3. The Sarah Cawkwell novel ("The Gildar Rift") which will include the Silver Skulls and Red Corsairs. What we know now... I suspect Sarah's novel will cast him in a more popular light than mine. In hers, it will likely show more of his tactical acumen and his actual physical prowess. In Blood Reaver, Huron is more of a monarch, ruling over his domain. Much in the same way Abaddon showed up in Soul Hunter, Huron appears in Blood Reaver. It's not a novel about him kicking ass and taking names. It's about the Night Lords coming into the Maelstrom and cutting a few deals under his watchful eyes, in the heart of his empire. I'm not sure how Sarah's done his bionics, but in Blood Reaver, they give him significant pain, and he's very much in need of his Apothecaries from time to time. However, yep, he's still immensely physically powerful on the battlefield, and a charismatic leader, with a vast stellar empire at his disposal. Variel’s memory, like most of the humans elevated into the ranks of the Adeptus Astartes, was as close to eidetic as mortality would allow. By his reckoning, this was the seventy-eighth instance he had been summoned to tend to his liege lord’s augmetics, not including the initial surgeries performed with Garreon and two Techmarines in order to save the Tyrant’s life. Those first instances had been closer to engineering than surgery. A third of Huron’s body was reduced to molten meat and burned bone, and in cutting away the ravaged flesh, a great deal more of his mortal frame had to be sacrificed to prepare attachment ports for extensive bionics. The right side of his body no longer existed beyond the clanking grind of Machine Cult ingenuity – all fibre-bundle muscles; piston joints; and metal bones fused to the warrior’s armour. Variel had seen the bio-auspex readings at the time, just as he’d seen them each time since. The degree of pain registered within Huron’s mind was far beyond the realms of human tolerance. Each time Lord Garreon or the Flayer burned out the synaptic relays, dulling their master’s perception of his own agony, it would only be a matter of months before his Astartes physiology compensated for the damage, repairing the nerves enough to transmit pain again. Short of invasive lobotomising surgery that would risk what little brain tissue remained, there was nothing his healers could do to offer a permanent solution. So he endured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummus Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 cool your portrayl of huron sounds very darth vader style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Thanks for that tidbit ADB. love the description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I am salivating for Blood Reaver. Literally. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Tezdal Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 How does Huron go from playing hide and seek and trying to catch a strike cruiser to equal to the Legions themselves? GW shooting the fluff in the head again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Riorik Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 How does Huron go from playing hide and seek and trying to catch a strike cruiser to equal to the Legions themselves? GW shooting the fluff in the head again? Through the passage of time and expenditure of effort no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 How does Huron go from playing hide and seek and trying to catch a strike cruiser to equal to the Legions themselves? GW shooting the fluff in the head again? Time, love, tenderness, and sucking in all the renegades, rogues, scoundrels, pirates, and those disenchanted with their Legions and/or Abaddon, not to mention the perception that something has blessed him with innate talent and an extraordinary ability to survive. He challenged the Imperium directly, turned three Chapters against the Throne during his rebellion, survived the counterassault that broke his empire, was reborn from the ashes of his own tormented flesh, successfully assaulted the Space Wolves and captured their Strike Cruiser (something even the Dark Eldar didn't succeed in doing), hosts the Skull Harvest competition that brings warbands from far and wide in the Warp into his service, and is therefore perceived as being a rising star. If his stats were better, I'd field him. :blush: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abyssel Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I have ALWAYS wanted to field Huron, more so than Abby. I like his model and what he stands for, but his stats blow, hardcore. at least he's better than fabulous bile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexington Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I'm not sure how Sarah's done his bionics, but in Blood Reaver, they give him significant pain, and he's very much in need of his Apothecaries from time to time... See, this is what I hate - hate - about Aaron's writing. He takes characters and concepts I already enjoyed, and even occasionally some I thought pretty boring, then he adds layers of character, motivation and even larger statements about human nature that make them utterly fascinating. I used to feel pretty justified in dismissing the Black Library out of hand, but, damnit, A D-B, you are harshing my vibe, man. :blush: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I'm not sure how Sarah's done his bionics, but in Blood Reaver, they give him significant pain, and he's very much in need of his Apothecaries from time to time... See, this is what I hate - hate - about Aaron's writing. He takes characters and concepts I already enjoyed, and even occasionally some I thought pretty boring, then he adds layers of character, motivation and even larger statements about human nature that make them utterly fascinating. I used to feel pretty justified in dismissing the Black Library out of hand, but, damnit, A D-B, you are harshing my vibe, man. ;) :blush: My day just got a little brighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Starscream Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Well, you have the quote from the leaked pdf. Several things which may reveal more of Huron's power.... 1. If the GK PDF fluff remains for Draigo when released 2. What is mentioned in ADB's forth coming NL Novel ("Blood Reaver" which includes a Red Corsair alliance. (This I believe centers around the Marines Errant event where the RC's take their geneseed. :devil: 3. The Sarah Cawkwell novel ("The Gildar Rift") which will include the Silver Skulls and Red Corsairs. What we know now... 1. They left the Badab war with only 200 marines and a few ships (lost much power) (Not sure if IA10 changes this or sheds new light) 2. They fought and absorbed many Pirate factions in the Maelstrom(adding power) 3. We know from the Rule book that they were successful in snatching all of the Marines Errant reserve gene seed. Now they only need recruits... I think this is big. Especially considering the Marines Errant went through great lengths to secure their gene seed, but still lost it. Unless they had been decimated and used up much of that gene seed we can assume the RC's got a huge supply. 4. Had much early success attacking Imperial shipping until they used some type of "convoy" system 5. Are getting constant flow of small and single loyal now turned traitor marines as recruits. My Assumption/opinion.. I think they are becoming very powerful. After Badab, there are not many setbacks. (as far as I know) and between some of the successes, throwing in his lot with Chaos coupled with Huron's insatiable ambition, I think he is in s very good position of power. Also keep in mind there are no sizable traitor Legions in the Maelstrom. WB's are there but I don't think they are large, and even if they are, they could be encouraging Huron's rise to power. The Word Bearers in the Maelstrom are the remains of the forces at Calth. Calth being the largest single engagement of Word Bearers vs. Ultramarines, where the majority of both Legions were present IIRC. Basically meaning, there are a LOT of Word Bearers in that region, likely more than in the EoT even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I have ALWAYS wanted to field Huron, more so than Abby. I like his model and what he stands for, but his stats blow, hardcore. at least he's better than fabulous bile? Oh, I've come to quite enjoy fielding Bile. Watching a squad of Enhanced CSMs tear a Wraithlord to pieces with their bare hands in CC has made me a huge fan of S5 Fearless CSMs. Beyond that, Bile can hide in a Rhino for all I care. Huron has to engage the enemy to be worthwhile, and he just can't seem to survive long enough to inflict any serious damage beyond his first strike. You could say the same about Abaddon, or any of the other Chaos special characters, but at least Abaddon isn't insta-killable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 The Word Bearers in the Maelstrom are the remains of the forces at Calth. Calth being the largest single engagement of Word Bearers vs. Ultramarines, where the majority of both Legions were present IIRC. Basically meaning, there are a LOT of Word Bearers in that region, likely more than in the EoT even. The IA IIRC place the Word Bearers as roughly 50/50 split between the Daemon World Sicarus in the Eye and the Forge World Ghalmek in the Maelstrom. TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 DA and Lanparth thanks for the WB info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 thought... hurons thing that he got in trouble for was keeping the genesee frombeing tested/tithed. right? so in the time they took to be routed, how much extra did they manage to save up? and how much were they able to rescue from downed brothers and enemys during the route? considering a marine makes 2 sets of geneseed, and unlike the traitorlegions they had current weapons and knowlede that those stuck in the eya would have missed out on. coupled with ambition... well easy to quickly increase chapter numbers if you can find somewhere to get bodies to insert into. im sure theres plenty of cultists that wold give their left and right arms to be a marine rather than fodder... maby, just maby the other chaos forces have spent so much effort to get even that tey have forgotton much of the ways to fight as a marine. and this has also helped to give huron the edge. i do rember reading somewhere that he does command a very large fleet. me thinks he may well be on his way to a parley with abbadon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Did you read my earlier post? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexington Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 You know, on the original topic, I think it's something that's not so wild when you look at it from a certain angle. It's puffed up to ridiculous proportions in the referenced bit (oh, 5th Edition background, you big hot mess, you), but while I think it'd be silly to assume Huron's military might is anywhere near that of even a single Traitor Legion, the fact is, the Red Corsairs run a much tighter ship than any of the Legions, who have broken into countless warbands and cults in the intervening ten millennia since the Heresy. While the Daemon Primarchs and their ilk deal in daemonic intrigues and Aether-wars, the Corsairs operate as a ruthless pirate organization that have specific, material goals, and damn if they're not willing to get the job done. More, even though it doesn't work this way in-game anymore, Blackheart's renegades are of a more recent vintage, and thus are armed with all sorts of post-Heresy tech that the Legions, in their bitterness, haven't gotten around to upgrading to yet.* In that sense, the Red Corsairs are a true military force to be reckoned with, because they go out and cause damage in a way that the Legions don't. He's not going to go toe-to-toe with any of them, but he's the kind of Warlord that none of them would want specifically gunning for them. * I'm now imagining Arhiman sitting in front of a PC, hunched and frustrated, mumbling about how he didn't need to update to Vista, XP was just fine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 * I'm now imagining Arhiman sitting in front of a PC, hunched and frustrated, mumbling about how he didn't need to update to Vista, XP was just fine... FYI Ahriman runs 97. Also thanks for everyones input :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Did you read my earlier post? :( yes, but i mentioned geenseed gained up to and during the war too. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroriffic Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I suspect Sarah's novel will cast him in a more popular light than mine. In hers, it will likely show more of his tactical acumen and his actual physical prowess. In Blood Reaver, Huron is more of a monarch, ruling over his domain. Much in the same way Abaddon showed up in Soul Hunter, Huron appears in Blood Reaver. It's not a novel about him kicking ass and taking names. It's about the Night Lords coming into the Maelstrom and cutting a few deals under his watchful eyes, in the heart of his empire. I'm not sure how Sarah's done his bionics, but in Blood Reaver, they give him significant pain, and he's very much in need of his Apothecaries from time to time. However, yep, he's still immensely physically powerful on the battlefield, and a charismatic leader, with a vast stellar empire at his disposal. I'm not sure about 'popular'. By the time I'd finished the first draft I wanted to pound him into the ground with something very, very heavy. But yes: The Gildar Rift has Huron Blackheart 'out there kicking ass', thus giving him a literary opportunity to show off just what a cunning type he is. By happy chance, there's similarities there in terms of the bionics and the fact he has pain from them. Great minds and all that. Huzzah! ~S~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 i remember waay back in second edition i converted up my own huron blackheart....always had a soft spot for the guy! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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