Iron Snakes organisation

[Hergrmir]

Hey all. I've been browsing Chapterhouse Studios and Maxmini, and I'm really intrigued by the idea of picking up some of their greek-esque helmets and shields as well as relevant shoulder pads to make an Iron Snakes force. I've read the novel a long time ago, so I don't remember too much of it. Can someone help me out with their organisation and tactical doctrine? AFAIK it was apothecaries in every squad alongside the sergeant, a second, an assault weapon, and then 6 other men (without a heavy weapon, yes?). I also seem to vaguely recall they were mostly infantry oriented, and generally didn't have much in the way of terminator armour or dreads either.

 

How widespread were the spear/shields? Was it the case that everyone had them and that they didn't really distinguish between tactical and assault squads? I think that was the case too, but it'd be much easier if it were just the assault squads.

 

I also could picture them wearing lots of robes just to give the impression of cloaks and cloth, so I might use the dark angel robed bodies with the add-on helmets from CH, but I'm not too sure about that yet. I'll probably use C:SM for the rules, but if there's no tactical/assault/dev distinction then C:BA might be the one to go to so I can scatter in a horde of apothecaries (though it actually sounds like a terrible list :lol: ), or C:SW if the Iron Snakes do lack heavy weapons, assuming that all squads are armed with both spears/shields and bolters. Blood Claws could represent a squad that had been killed to the man and rebuilt from novices. I don't think C:BT fits but I could be convinced otherwise, and I'm even considering C:CSM because of the bolter/CCW/BP option.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

The main squad featured in the book had a Plasma Cannon, at least at one point.

 

There were six(?) squads which where the elite, called the Notables.

 

Sea lances and shields were wide spread and apparently a staple of hand to hand combat.

[RamrodMC]

As Captain Juan has said, the six notable squads count as the Iron Snakes' "veteran company" (it doesn't seem like the IS use the company structure at all). We didn't see much of any other squads, so you can be safe in assuming that the non-vet squads still have roles like "heavy weapons", "close combat" and "multi-purpose."

 

For your army list, how about the Red Scorpions army list from IA: Siege of Vraks 2? Every sergeant can be replaced with an apothecary. To get around that, though, you could model the narthecium on someone else, and keep the sarge looking like just a sarge.

 

On the other hand, I can't remember if they get Vanguard vets, cause "lance plus buckler" totally equals "relic blade plus storm shield"...

 

As for the robes, get yourself a bunch of Dark Angel and Black Templar upgrade sprues, just for variety. :lol:

[Direach]

Going by the novel, only the Notable squads had an apothecary in each squad. Otherwise, the Iron Snakes squads are comprised of a pretty straightforward tactical squad mix, with some brothers carrying sea-lances and some carrying swords. Presumably they also field heavy weapons like devastators, or change to an assault configuration if needed.

 

What I took away from the novel is that the active battle squads are all composed of tactical marines, who (going by existing fluff) can shift as needed to assault or devastator roles. In tabletop terms, you could field the mix of 10-man T, A, and/or D squads that you saw fit. I don't know where to find rules for the sea-lances and shields for tabletop though.

[waaanial00]

The main squad featured in the book had a Plasma Cannon, at least at one point.

 

That was probably an inconsistency as the same marine fired his Plasma Gun a paragraph or two before.

 

As for their weapons, they were mainly Tactical Marines. The book covers several deployments and it was only in the Ork invasion that the Marines were armed with Combat Shields and Sea Lances. The other missions they were armed as Tactical Marines without a heavy weapon.

 

They did include an Apothecary and I believe the "Second in command" nominee is probably a widespread thing across all Marines, especially as their lives are generally full of peril and they are expected to give their lives at the drop of a hat for the Emperor.

 

They did have Terminator armour, the books main protagonist explains that he entered the Phantry without the aspiration to wear the Veteran armour (if memory serves). They have at least got Dreadnoughts as one of the main characters in the last assault was a Dreadnought. They also deployed armour on the Ork invasion mission as the overview of losses suggests that they had to leave many demolished armour pieces behind in their retreat.

 

They were mainly infantry based in the books though. The only time the main unit utilised a Rhino was when they had an especially large area to cover (the Khorne-dolls incident).

 

I do rather enjoy that book, though no rules really do them justice so I couldnt bring myself to sully their memory by trying to build a force of them.

 

Going by the novel, only the Notable squads had an apothecary in each squad.

 

Read it again. Each squad had an apothecary. The releif force was made up of mixed squads and only 1 notable, there were 5 apothecaries.

[RamrodMC]

Waanial00, Dan Abnett has ruled in favour of a plasma cannon.

[waaanial00]

In the face of better knowledge I withdraw my previous statement.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I do rather enjoy that book, though no rules really do them justice so I couldnt bring myself to sully their memory by trying to build a force of them.

 

Were I so inclined, or talented, I'd build them for display purposes.. Possibly even the set-piece with the Orks at the end of the book.

 

But alas, I can just about basecoat!

[Hergrmir]

EDIT: I just saw the last few posts, so the following is out of date, but I've got to go. I'll think more about it today.

 

Hrm, good things to know. I think, whichever way I go, that heavy weapons in regular squads are a no-go. Good calls on using Culln though for the Apothecaries and the BT sprues as well for more cloth. I've been trying to figure out a cheap and effective way to represent apothecaries in each squad, whether they have rules or not. I think I've got enough junk in the bitz box I can kludge together a little sensor thingy and a scrap of chainblade to go under a fist as well, plus painting will mark them.

 

So basic squads are going to be apoth/sergeant/special weapon/second then. Now for the armament. I can never tell with GW fluff whether their combat scenes are supposed to represent anything out of the ordinary or if they're the typical overdone nonsense. I came away with the distinct impression that Iron Snakes tactical doctrine called for being up close, whether shooting or punching, but I might just have a re-read of the novel if I can find it. C:BA is something I'll drop out of the running, as nothing other than many apothecaries fits, and that can be a modelling thing.

 

Can the BTs mix CCW/BP and bolter marines in the same squad? Might be the way to go then, but I don't know about the lack of Librarians, and they don't seem to lean towards emperor-bothering specifically.

 

The upside of C:SW is if (and only if, really) my image of them as being especially proficient compared to other space marines at close range is correct, then counter-charge and the lack of a heavy allows me to play a mobile space marine force that's primarily on foot without it being terribly difficult to actually accomplish anything on the table. The sagas and the HQs are just icing - the Greek myths that the Iron Snakes draw on conceptually are filled with heroic individuals and the like. I could see an army that's primarily grey-hunter-equivalents with some tanks and maybe a pair of dreads backing them up, and the HQs striding about being Big Damn Heroes. Mainly drop pod C:SM will do the same too, allowing me to get close to the enemy without many tracked transports.

 

Also, any suggestions for spears thick enough that they won't look out of place in Space Marine hands? I expect much of the historical stuff will look too weedy, though I don't know what's out there. Certainly I don't see the Perry or Warlord plastic spears/pikes fitting given the proportions of their infantry.

[Direach]

Going by the novel, only the Notable squads had an apothecary in each squad.

 

Read it again. Each squad had an apothecary. The releif force was made up of mixed squads and only 1 notable, there were 5 apothecaries.

 

That may very well be, I only remember the Notables definitely having an apothecary per squad. It's been quite some time since I read it. :)

[RamrodMC]

Also, any suggestions for spears thick enough that they won't look out of place in Space Marine hands? I expect much of the historical stuff will look too weedy, though I don't know what's out there. Certainly I don't see the Perry or Warlord plastic spears/pikes fitting given the proportions of their infantry.

 

Expensive, but this is generally what I've been seeing other people use.

[NurseNinja]

if i recolect when he was penning the books he had planned the entire chapter to consist of tactical squads

[Direach]

This may be of some help. I did not write this, this is lifted whole cloth from Dan Abnett's blog... and while fan-made, Dan posted it, so it can probably be considered authorized (and as official as this kind of thing can be). - D

 

 

 

This was originally posted up on Mr. Dan Abnett's Blog. It's basically a fan's breakdown, John Roberts, that he sent along to Mr. Abnett that he ended up posting on his blog for other fans of the Mighty Snakes of Ithaka to make use of and enjoy. So here for your reading and modeling pleasure is the blog posting concerning the Iron Snake Phratry...let me know your opinions on this when your finished taking it all in.

 

Of Iron Snakes and Other Sundry Matters

 

(Dan Abnett) Pausing only to mention how much I am looking forward to seeing all of you (and when I say 'all', you all know who you are) at the extraordinary suprafabulatory wonderama of awesome sauce that is Games Day UK this coming Sunday (I'll be there all day, try the veal), and to comment in a passing, throw-away fashion how much fun I had in NY, I hereby hand over the controls of this blog entry to John Roberts.

 

To explain, John emailed me a little while back to ask if there was anything written up on the organisation and structure of the Iron Snakes, and I had to admit that there wasn't as far as I knew, and that I hadn't formalised it myself. I suggested that if he had the time and inclination, he was welcome to take a pass at it, and if he sent the results to me, I'd post it here for all to enjoy. Or, as I suspect, discuss at great length.

 

Anyway, he emailed me back with the following, and a jolly lovely job he's done IMHO. I've reproduced his entire email for the sake of clarity:

 

"Hi Dan,

 

To be honest, I think you have a perfectly good organization as it is given the nature of the chapter. With specialist squads I can imagine the following scene:

 

Seydon: Petrok, can you double check the chips again? We really need at least 2 assault squads for this undertaking and I only see Squad Alexios in here.....

 

So, keep them all tactical. As far as vehicles, keep them as you have. Rhinos and Drop pods to get to the fighting, landspeeders for speed, and Dreadnoughts for heavy weapon platforms.

 

So we have:

 

99 Tactical squads comprised of: Sgt, apothecary, weapons specialist, 7 brother marines

1 Terminator Squad comprised of: Sgt, Apothecary, weapon specialist, 7 brother marines

Rhinos

Drop Pods

Landspeeders

Dreadnought

Fleet

 

This makes the Iron Snakes extremely nimble as they don't have to wait for much in the way of armor, which is ideal given what seems to be their two most common roles: Chasing down Dark Eldar and Rapid Strikes against Chaos.

 

So, not very creative on my part. You did all of the heavy lifting and I did a little codification. As soon as I have the latest Space Marine Codex I'll draft an army list. Actually, I'll probably draft 2: one where I try to minimize the homegrown rules to make it more palatable for strangers, and the other where I pretty much give myself free reign. I'd be more than happy to shoot you a copy of each if you'd like. Also, I've included as a postscript a write up I did to help me form up my thoughts of your Iron Snakes. If you like that sort of thing, it's there. If not, stop reading at my signature. I can imagine the type of mail you must get.

 

Anyway, I also want to mention how much I appreciate the response to my query. I seriously would have been satisfied with a link to a blog article I might have missed or some such.

 

Thanks again!

John Roberts

 

The Iron Snakes

 

Organization:

 

The Iron Snakes are a codex divergent Space Marine Chapter. They do maintain a 1000 Marine strong presence broken down to 100 squads of ten marines per squad (referred to overall as the Phratry). 99 of the squads are organized primarily as tactical squads with several variations: 1) The squad members maintain a greater number of close combat weaponry on their person (in the form of a short sword and a throwing/jabbing spear, in addition to a small, round shield). 2) Each squad is accompanied by an apothecary (which creates a rather sizeable apothecarium of about 100+ members, including the unattached apothecaries responsible for the augmentation of new recruits). 3) Each squad maintains only a single weapon specialist, usually equipped either with a flamer, plasma gun or melta gun. There is only one squad that isn’t organized as a tactical squad and it is also the only squad in the entire chapter armored in tactical dreadnought suits.

 

The squads themselves aren’t organized on any greater level, other than the chapter entire. There aren’t any companies to speak of. All task forces are assembled ad hoc from the available squads with squad leaders designating themselves as ready for the mission, or undertaking, as the chapter refers to it. A squad leader does so by depositing a marker with their squad symbol into a large drinking vessel known as a kylix. Squads are also designated not by the name of their current leader but by the name of the original leader at the founding of the chapter. The current squad leader also maintains some sort of talisman from the original leader, sometimes either utilitarian or symbolic in nature (i.e. a lightning claw, bolter, helmet, etc…). The squads maintain their own history, foster rivalries (although very rarely to the point of violent contention), and ultimately are formed around a core of “Notables,” which would be the rough equivalent of a codex chapter’s elite, comprised of 5 squads (one of which happens to be the terminator unit). The squad membership is for life, unless a member is promoted to become sergeant of a reformed squad or, in the case of an unfortunate apothecary, the rest of the squad is wiped out. Promotion to captain or, if the individual is so inclined, librarian might also free a squad member from inclusion into the squad, but there are captains who have been promoted who stayed with their original squad. The squads replenish losses from a body of petitioners, as they are referred to, who are tested to ensure they would be worthy additions to the Phratry. The petitioners only take to the battlefield once they are full marines; the Iron snakes maintain no scout organization.

 

The leadership of the Iron Snakes is currently under Chapter Master Seydon. Members of the standing librarium, the chaplainry, and also those captains that are unattached to individual squads assist him in his role. The entire officer corps, which includes the above mentioned and those officers attached to squads (both sergeants and captains), weighs matters of the greatest import. The main purpose of the Chapter Master is to ensure that the chapter as a whole is prepared. He answers requests for aid and decides on the actual number of squads that will be required for the undertaking. He then selects the squads based solely on which squad leaders have consented to the undertaking by indicating their readiness and that of their squads.

 

Support for the entire organization is limited mainly to rhino or drop pods for transportation, landspeeders for reconnaissance, and dreadnoughts, which act as heavy weapon platforms in addition to tactical advisors. The chapter comports itself on the battlefield as a fluid, mainly infantry army, utilizing it’s fleet assets to redeploy when necessary. The entirety of the Forge is dedicated to these tasks and maintains a large number of chapter serfs to assist with these varied tasks."

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Thanks! That was very informative, though I think they would be slaughtered in a large-scale battle, as evidenced by the final story in Brothers of the Snake, as they have little to no support. I think this would then mean that they are more of a 'special operations' chapter, sending small groups or even single marines to deal with situations and eliminate key targets.

[Direach]

There was more, a lot more, about their organization, but I didn't want to repost a monolithic wall of text. If you want to view it, well...

 

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=3002...amp;topic=12588 (on the Iron Snakes Chapter FB page)