Sternguard soldiers

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Sternguard are one those units in the space marine codex i'd love to run that always seem...a little hard to justify for me. They sort of combine tacticals devastators and assault squads into a singular role, so you'd expect them to be expensive. But at a base cost for 10 men its a 250 point investment.

 

Obviously this includes a pretty decent profile and equipment, but they have access to some rather useful gear too. Its here that I get a little hazy as ideally i'd add around 5 combi weapons and a powerfist, probably with a single heavy weapon like a heavy flamer. In addition they need transport, so you're looking at quite a pricey squad!

 

 

After that its a case of finding 5 meltas to cannibalise in order to make the combi-weapons and its a little hard to come by all this gear!

[DarkGuard]

I often take a 9 man unit with a power fist, two heavy flamers, four combi-meltas and a Rhino with a dozer blade. Comes in at around 330pts, and considering the Libby goes with them that's 430pts, just less than a 1/3 of my army. However, these guys can near enough take on anything. Nob Bikers, Leman Russ squadrons, Wraithlords, Terminator squads, Space Marines have all fallen to these guys.

 

The heavy flamers make them much better against infantry in general, as they can hit a lot of guys even causing a lot of casualties or a lot of wounds. The combi-meltas, while only 1 shot, means that if they come across tanks and MCs and the like (plus Terminators) they can handle them. The power fist is to help out in assault as they will be assaulted. It is a lot of points, but these guys can take on anything and deal damage. However, they are fragile, and that is a problem.

 

I have considered taking the heavy flamers out again as special ammo is good enough. However, I have nothing better for the 20pts, and it does help with rounding out the squad.

[Gunslinger87]

I feel for you and identify with your dilemma. If you kit them out and attach an IC you are already reaching the same cost as a land raider with termies and I have a tough time comparing almost anything to that.

 

Sternguards are fantastic for Crimson Fist players, and quite good for CSM, but I think there are better choices out there if you look at it in a cost-benefit situation. However, in some cases mid-ranged shooting is precisely what your list needs or is missing, which is where they become fantastic.

 

If you already have a couple of long ranged units parked at the back, a deathstar CC unit (land raider eith IC + termie combo or similar), you may just need some support in the middle ground. Then the cost value needs to be evaluated based on what the unit brings in that you lack... and in that case they will be well worth their cost.

[DarkGuard]

I feel for you and identify with your dilemma. If you kit them out and attach an IC you are already reaching the same cost as a land raider with termies and I have a tough time comparing almost anything to that.

 

Not exactly, as you still need a HQ, and with Assault Terminators you're more likely to be going for a more expensive combat HQ. For Assault Terminators in a Land Raider we're look at about 465pts, and then add on the 100pts for a HQ that will likely ride with them. At least. The Sternguard are still cheaper in points. They're not as durable, sure, but in shooting they are better at anti-infantry than Hammernators are in assault, and with the right upgrades about equal against the elite stuff and MCs etc. The one thing they mainly fall down on is survivability. Hammernators (and their transport), are simple more survivable than Sternguard in general, which is why they play differently, and why you need to be careful with Sternguard.

 

If I didn't play with two Rifleman Dreads I'd be quite tempted to try out a couple of smaller sized Sternguard squad, so that they're easier to hide and if one does get wiped out it's not as bad as loosing loads. However, the reason I rate Sternguard over Command squads is not just flexibility, but also survivability. Sure Command squads have FnP, but Sternguard squads have numbers, which can be more valuable at times.

[waaanial00]

Gotta ask, why 10? Why 5 combi meltas? Finally Why the heavy flamer? What are you looking for this squad to do?

 

I have run Sternguard ever since the codex came out. Generally I run a unit of 7 with 2 combi weapons in a Rhino (with or without a Power Fist). This unit is more than capable of taking a chunk out of most MC's/heavy infantry/hoard.

 

There is really no need to run the full 10 unless you are drop podding and combat squadding on deployment to challenge more enemies (not something I would suggest as drop podded sternguard are a waste IMO). More than 8 is really overkill in most situations.

 

Generally you shouldnt need Sternguard for tank hunting because there are other things which can do that. You are wasting the Sternguards fantastic plethora of rounds each time you decide to try and kill a tank. The heavy flamer is a decent idea but not really that necessary in a unit which can easily clear a hoard with hellfire rounds.

 

I would say you are probably having a hard time justifying them because you are overgearing them and expecting them to cover too many bases. Mine go after MC's as a priority and they do so well enough without upgrades, if no MC's then they go support the Tacticals in crushing infantry. My tanks, speeders and Dreadnoughts crush the armour.

[waaanial00]

Sternguards are fantastic for Crimson Fist players

 

I am a Crimson Fist player, I dont take the Chapter Master therefore Sternguard have no special relevance. People have a fixation on making things scoring, it surprises me how people grab onto scoring as some sort of ultra important fact.

 

You only ever really need to claim one objective, the rest of your units can quite easilly just stop your opponent from claiming the rest. If you are looking to hold more than 2 objectives then I have to wonder why you are not trying to stop your opponent from holding more than 1.

[greatcrusade08]

i use a squad of 5 with 2 lascannons as IMO its one of the most copst effective way to get two lascannons on the board.. plus the 3 bolter special ammo shots and 2 attacks a piece makes them pretty handy in a pinch

[Shadowstalker Grim]

The reason I put in the full 10 was simply because I figured if you're not running 5-6 in a razorback, take the full amount since now they can only fit in a rhino,drop pod or land raider.

 

I thought about the powerfist as the squad is large, going to be operating relatively close to the front lines and has a little more of an assault profile than regular marines. The 5 combi weapons are so that the unit had a decent chance of opening more than 1 vehicle and the heavy flamer for the crowd control. Thats how I justified each option to take in my head.

 

With a 7 man squad, it seems to have a reasonable middle ground between the fragile 5 man squads and the larger tougher full maxed out squads. Taking Pedro Kantor did cross my mind, but i don't like him hugely and i don't want to take him just for the sternguard. The only thing i really like about him is the +1 attack aura....

 

 

I kind of envisage the unit i want to use as a close support element, operating near the front lines and picking up the slack from other aspects of my army (NOT a suicide squad, i can't stand throwaway units like that), but if it was around 400+ points, it then needs to be doing work and not really acting as support. I feel that 5 men is really too fragile to operate in the front lines, though I debated 6 with a razorback as some extra heavy fire support.

 

You guys have come up with some really good ideas, keep em coming! :wub:

[waaanial00]

Oops I came off a little more combative than I meant to.

 

Assuming that you have a fairly decent backup of anti transport then I would only take 2 combis as a backup (1 will hit and probably do something), if not then there is always krak grenades :wub:

 

The heavy flamer is actually a decent option, my statement above isnt really balanced but I view it as sprinkles on the icing of the cake. Makes them even better at doing what they do best, therefore if you have the points why not (its also an excuse to use a man portable heavy flamer which is always awesome).

 

I dont mind "under-utilising" the transport capacity of a Rhino, I hate taking Razorbacks because they lose their firepoints and it means that I am forced to disembark to contribute. There have been many times when I have been able to contribute enough within a Rhino, especially when it is advantageous to not be counter charged.

 

The additional space also provides the perfect place for our HQ choices, I would imagine that you already have a favourite location for your chosen HQ. However if he is capable of being transported in a Rhino you now have some options as to where he goes.

 

As for close combat I would use them more for taking the charge, their shooting is just too good to lose and they can form a fairly decent rock to take a non assault specialst charge. Fighting as good as tacticals on the charge they are never going to be breaking the ranks with their fists, however they should provide you with a stable platform to form a counter charge (if they survive that is).

[Meatman]

i use a squad of 5 with 2 lascannons as IMO its one of the most copst effective way to get two lascannons on the board..

 

 

I give you, the combi-pred, 120 points :blush:

 

 

Jokes aside, I have been tempted to run a large unit in a rhino to help turn away hordes, but then, I set up my tacticals for that. The main areas my list struggles with, are anti elites (think terminators), and heavy tanks. So I've started running 5 sternguard in a las/plas razorback with a Librarian, null zone and smite, 2 plasma guns, 3 combi-plasmas.

 

5 sternguard with combi-meltas in a pod never fail me. And with my aggressive armies, the sternguard aren't suicide troops, they are merely in the first wave of attacks.

[greatcrusade08]

i use a squad of 5 with 2 lascannons as IMO its one of the most copst effective way to get two lascannons on the board..

I give you, the combi-pred, 120 points :P

 

its not the place for that discussion, but i think 5 sternies is greater than one pred

[Shadowstalker Grim]

I quite like the idea of a 6-7 man squad, now knowing that 10 is a little overkill. The extra bodies are nice, but thats 75 points in 3 troops alone!

 

I think i'd give the sarge a powerfist (sternguard are about 1 of maybe 3 units i'd ever consider giving a fist to, the others being assault marines and command squads), 2 combi-meltas (keeping them deadly to tanks, but without leaving them as tank busters) and a heavy flamer (to help make up for the fewer numbers, taking on larger units and clearing enemies out of cover)

 

 

Thats 195 points with a 6 man squad, 235 in a heavy bolter razorback (im leaning towards this one at the moment, I quite like the look of it)

 

or 220 for a 7 man unit with the same gear, 255 in a rhino

 

 

I'd probably use them as a small support unit, assigned to helping out on the front-line, they excel with anti-infantry and MEQ, but with the 2 meltas they expand into vehicles a bit and the flamer keeps them in the game against larger numbers. I'm sure their primary assignment of MEQ or below killing should work out reasonably if they are supported (or supporting) other units in the role.

[DarkGuard]

That's sort of the thing I've been thinking of recently. Two heavy flamers seems a bit excessive unless in larger squads, and take away from the flexibility of their boltguns. One heavy flamer, however, lets them handle just nicely while still allowing them that flexibility. Plus, if you don't need the heavy flamer (Termy spam, Nidzilla etc), you can always attempt to kill it off first. I'd stick with the seven in a Rhino if I were you, six seems like a bit too little, I'd imagine seven and eight are the sweet spots. Plus the top hatch in the Rhino is a bonus, and it's cheaper than a Razorback. The only reason why I'm not following suit is that I don't have anything good to sink the extra points into without rehauling my entire list. And if I have a spare 100pts I always feel that more Sternguard is better than sniper Scouts ;).

[Shadowstalker Grim]

I've never really settled on a list I really like the look of, I always imagine units as puzzle pieces and different gear is different puzzle pieces, then the puzzle has to check a load of boxes in order to work properly. Sternguard seem like a wonderful unit to deal some decent damage and can flex to fit several roles, which is always nice. At the moment I was thinking of using them as part of quite a standard army libby, 2 tacs, assault squad, speeder with the rest being whatever.

 

 

6 does seem rather a fragile amount, especially as they'd have to dismount to fight from a razorback, I was just hoping that a decent set of heavy guns might help (plus its cheaper or for 15 points more than 7 men in a rhino, I can make it shootier). If i'm not using 6 i'll probably use 7 (keep it smaller and cheaper) 8 almost seems like it might aswel be 10.

 

 

I guess I could use them with the librarian and use null zone to help them deliver a bit more punch..

[Luis_CC]

I use them this way

10sternguard

2 fusion gun

3combi fusion

2 combi flamer

3 combi plasma

1 fist

1 drop pod

 

In first turn, if I see valuable targets, I throw the pod between them and combat squad in most efficient way.

For example, one squad with 5 fusion weapons against a LRC and the other combat squad with 3combi plasma and hell rounds rapid fire against terminators or

3combi fusion againts one vindicator and 2fusion guns and 3combiplasma against other vindicator (lateral armour).

 

I often include a libby with null zone

[Kem]

My vote for 6 in a RB all with combi-plasmas and a sgt with claw

Because it is cheap (reasonably for 12 plasmashots ) and can do heavy damage to most problematic targets: TEQ or MC's, chimeras :lol:

Use not_combi-weapons -> loose ammo -> why to take sterns?

Use rhino -> use only 2 wpns -> why to pay 25 pts a piece that do nothing/do half of their potential?

[waaanial00]

@Kem -

 

Sternguard are good without any upgrades, they kill anything infantry based by forcing the opponent to make large number of saves due to Hellfire rounds. Ignoring armour is ok, wounding everything on a 2+ is decent enough against MC's whose usual defense is that they are difficult to wound.

 

Combi-Plasma weapons are fairly nice, however I wouldnt run an entire squad with them. That is just asking to kill yourself with gets hot. Plus you are making your guys 5 points more expensive for one round of shooting.

 

Plus if you take the Razorback then you should only be moving 6" a turn, otherwise whats the point in taking it in the first place? Only moving 6" a turn means that you are slowing your advance by quite a bit, you are trading fire points (which means that you must disembark to contribute and its completely ineffective in the shooting phase after one weapon destroyed - whereas the Rhino still contributes by allowing embarked units to fire out of it), you are missing out on placing an HQ choice in the squad and you are paying 5 points more on a vehicle that is basically there for 1 movement turn before it gets killed.

[MagicMan]

Combi-Plasma weapons are fairly nice, however I wouldnt run an entire squad with them. That is just asking to kill yourself with gets hot. Plus you are making your guys 5 points more expensive for one round of shooting.

 

 

No more than the Vengeance rounds (I think?) that are AP3 and gets hot, what the combi-plasma lets you do is completely bone a squad thats relying on a 2+ save, or reliably take down a MC with a decent armour save, like a Daemon prince.

[DarkGuard]

No more than the Vengeance rounds (I think?) that are AP3 and gets hot, what the combi-plasma lets you do is completely bone a squad thats relying on a 2+ save, or reliably take down a MC with a decent armour save, like a Daemon prince.

 

True, but when you consider you can heap wounds on those targets with hellfire, they will fail some saves. Part of taking plasma is to take out Marines in power armour, but you have that with Vengeance anyway. The one thing that Sternguard can't take out, however, are tanks, and so therefore combi-meltas are better value. You don't have overheat, you can take out tanks, and if you don't need them for tanks they can still do a good job against MCs and Terminators. Perhaps not as well as combi-plasmas, but you have all those other bolt shots. For once, melta means more flexibility than plasma IMO.

[MagicMan]

No more than the Vengeance rounds (I think?) that are AP3 and gets hot, what the combi-plasma lets you do is completely bone a squad thats relying on a 2+ save, or reliably take down a MC with a decent armour save, like a Daemon prince.

 

True, but when you consider you can heap wounds on those targets with hellfire, they will fail some saves.

 

 

Sometimes i'd rather have them not have a save, though. Haha.

 

 

I like a mix, personally.

[nurglephill]

Actually this is the perfect thread for me! I am making a marine army for the first time in XX years and I have the perfect models to use as Sternguard.

 

I have two builds in mind:

 

10 sternguard with two plasma cannons. The idea being they find a spot turn one and then pour fire on anything that moves)

 

10 Sternguard with two heavy flamers. The idea being I use them much more aggressively.

 

Both are good and bad. You can't fire bolters and assault...but they do have two attacks. Currently I am favouring the two plasma cannons simply because of the amount of fire that unit could dish out and the coolness of plasma cannons.

 

I have never been a fan of combi weapons, all those points for a one shot weapon is a waste for me..except a combi flamer as you are sure to hit with it.

 

Both units, with rhino come in at under 300pts too.

 

But as I said I haven't played marines for a while, so what do you guys think of these simple builds?

[Luis_CC]

Actually this is the perfect thread for me! I am making a marine army for the first time in XX years and I have the perfect models to use as Sternguard.

 

I have two builds in mind:

 

10 sternguard with two plasma cannons. The idea being they find a spot turn one and then pour fire on anything that moves)

 

10 Sternguard with two heavy flamers. The idea being I use them much more aggressively.

 

Both are good and bad. You can't fire bolters and assault...but they do have two attacks. Currently I am favouring the two plasma cannons simply because of the amount of fire that unit could dish out and the coolness of plasma cannons.

 

I have never been a fan of combi weapons, all those points for a one shot weapon is a waste for me..except a combi flamer as you are sure to hit with it.

 

Both units, with rhino come in at under 300pts too.

 

But as I said I haven't played marines for a while, so what do you guys think of these simple builds?

 

I have been using sternguard in the last tournaments. After thinking about it, I found combiweapons essential, because sternguard is basically a destructive unit and, as it is very expensive, you have to be sure to destroy, at least, its value in enemy units. Special ammunition for 25p and special ammunition and combi for 30p, for me, it is worth taking the upgrade.

 

Monstruos creatures, tanks, horde...every unit in the board is threatened by your sternguard if they are using combiweapons.

In relation to the transport, I would suggest drop pod, to be able to hit always before they receive fire.

 

I would only choose heavy weapons in order to split them in combat squads.

[Meatman]

Combi-meltas on sternguard are almost a must have for me. For 5 points per model, your unit can now reliably hurt EVERY unit on the battlefield in rapid fire range.

 

Also helps for that dread that decides to get too close.

 

It's also the cheapest way to get 5 meltas in a unit (which is the average number required to kill a raider at BS4) at only 150 points.

Now they have to option to: ignore cover, wound on 2+, fire at AP3, fire at AP4, and also threaten armour.

[DarkGuard]

Actually this is the perfect thread for me! I am making a marine army for the first time in XX years and I have the perfect models to use as Sternguard.

 

I have two builds in mind:

 

10 sternguard with two plasma cannons. The idea being they find a spot turn one and then pour fire on anything that moves)

 

10 Sternguard with two heavy flamers. The idea being I use them much more aggressively.

 

Both are good and bad. You can't fire bolters and assault...but they do have two attacks. Currently I am favouring the two plasma cannons simply because of the amount of fire that unit could dish out and the coolness of plasma cannons.

 

I have never been a fan of combi weapons, all those points for a one shot weapon is a waste for me..except a combi flamer as you are sure to hit with it.

 

Both units, with rhino come in at under 300pts too.

 

But as I said I haven't played marines for a while, so what do you guys think of these simple builds?

 

I'm not a big fan of having 8 boltguns and 2 heavies. Your heavies should be doing all the damage, so you only need a few guys to make the unit legal and act as bullet shields, so 5/6 guys keeps you at near full effectiveness for less points. If you put them in a Rhino and fire out the top hatch you only want the two plasma cannons.

 

I like the second one, but remember it is a lot of points. Heavy flamers, however, are add ons, and I would rate combis as more essential. I used to think the same way about combis, but now I feel that every Sternguard squad without heavies should have at least 3 combi-meltas. Their special ammo can deal with everything except tanks, and the combi-meltas lets them deal with this, while making them better against MCs and Terminators. Anymore than 4 though and I feel you're spending too many points for killing tanks on what is effectively an anti-infantry unit. The other combis aren't really worth it as much anyway. Combi-plasma is covered by vengeance rounds and combi-meltas, while combi-flamers are covered by dragonfire rounds and heavy flamers.

 

Also, I'm not too sure about 10 man squads in Rhinos. I normally use 9 so I can fit my HQ with them, but now I'm playing around with smaller squad sizes. Their special ammo is good enough so that they don't need 10 men to be dangerous like Tactical squads, but like Tactical squads they are very fragile in 5/6 man squads. However, if you take too many their points are too expensive, the unit I use at the moment sits around the 330pts mark with the Rhino, and I put my 100pts HQ with them.

 

So the other night I tried out a 7 man unit with Vulkan. They had a heavy flamer and 3 combi-meltas, plus a power fist, in a Rhino with dozer blade. They worked well for counter-attacking, and I'm sure they'd do well with killing lots of guys. And it came to around 265pts instead. I'll keep trying the smaller squad out, but it seems that 7/8 guys is the sweet spot, not too many points, but not too few that they get killed quickly. Keep the upgrade sensible, and remember that special ammos is their strong point, so only 1 heavy flamer, and no more than 4 combi weapons, maybe a power fist if you have the points. This lets you have a couple of unupgraded guys to give wounds, plus the heavy flamer is you don't need it.

 

The best thing about Sternguard is that they are so customizable, and are a fun unit to use, that when used right can kill anything.

[nurglephill]

Many thanks for the help guys, certainly a lot to think about. I do like the heavy flamer more and more...

 

I am a little bit hampered by the models I am using (looong story) and the champ WILL have a fist and a squad of ten models (I can always drop on if I want to add a HQ etc) in a rhino.

 

OK, 10 sternguard, one champ with fist and combi flamer, 2 heavy flamers, 2 combi meltas.

 

The idea being I wont tank hunt so they only need to be able to deal with a tank if my tactics have failed...so a fist and two combi meltas should be enough to deal with the one tank/dread they get stuck with.

 

Right?