Inquisitor Tactica II

[Irbis]

So... since new Codex comes out and old IT will be a bit... outdated... I was wondering, could we start a preliminary discussion about the new characters? I'd especially like to hear about:

 

A) New SCs (especially Inquisitor Valeria) - are they worth it?

 

:tu: Good builds for three new Inquisitors;

 

C) Good melee/ranged warbands Inquisitors can now take - is it worth to throw Storm Shield holders into units of Jokaero or should we keep it as cheap as possible? How about units of 10 "Space Marines", all with 3+ save and Meltagun, in Rhino/Chimera?

 

Why I'd like to hear about Valeria - I love her fluff and equipment (S10 pistol? 7 PW attacks re-rolling successful saves? ID attack that is not ID for EW purposes?) but I feel her lack of buffs for army and sad I4 might mean she'll die before she can strike. True? Is her cost good, underpriced or overpriced?

[Inquisitor Fox]

I'm of the opinion it's a bit too early to really discuss the new Inquisitors (assuming the leaked Codex is even accurate) without real knowledge of what the wargear does as well as final point costs and retinue options. Once we have the books in our hands, it'll be a lot easier to start going over combinations and comparing them to our previous experiences.

[Irbis]

I'm of the opinion it's a bit too early to really discuss the new Inquisitors (assuming the leaked Codex is even accurate) without real knowledge of what the wargear does as well as final point costs and retinue options.

 

Ok, Inquisitors I'll give you (though they mostly have 1-3 unknown items) but all unique Inquisitors have their wargear precisely detailed, and I'd like to hear what people think if simply to learn more about evaluating units.

 

By the way, I assume giving point costs is verboten, but if necessary, I could post brief summary of wargear?

[Gentlemanloser]

This will be bit redundant I fear.

 

It will be;

 

Take Coteaz

 

Fill up on as many;

 

DCA

Crusaders

Arco-flagelants

Weaponsmiths

Warriors

 

And chimeras.

 

Depending on your poison.

 

Who cares about the Inquisitors build when you can have 12 DCA for 180 points popping out of a Chimera and :)-ing any unit they charge.

[RayJ]

I think you'll find a mix of crusaders and DCA to be a better investment. Say 3-4 crusaders to soak up wounds with and the rest being DCA for more attacks. 4 crusaders and 8 DCA look like they'll still have 40 power weapon attacks on the charge.

[Irbis]

I think you'll find a mix of crusaders and DCA to be a better investment. Say 3-4 crusaders to soak up wounds with and the rest being DCA for more attacks. 4 crusaders and 8 DCA look like they'll still have 40 power weapon attacks on the charge.

 

Eh, I think we're being blinded by the number of attacks. These guys don't have access to assault vehicles, nor fleet, meaning you need to spend 240 pts for such an unit with Chimera...

 

And once you realize similarly priced GK unit would simply de-mech them, then proceed to tear them apart with Strom Bolters (every S5 wound not landing on 4 3++ models only has to defeat 5+ T3 to kill DCA, and GK have a big volume of fire...) I think Inquisitor spam might cease to be so popular.

 

On the other hand, for the price of the mentioned DCA/Crusade unit you can buy 10 Stormtroopers + Chimera with all-important 4+ save and plasma guns. 20 plasma shots? I'd take them over 40 S3 PW attacks, thank you very much :devil:

[Gentlemanloser]

Weaponsmiths/Warriors in Chimera's. Arco's, DCA and Crusaders in Storm Ravens. :P

[Darkmagi]

To be honest here's a question, How will the new inquisitors and assassins work with the current witch hunters dex? will they replace them? or will you be able to through the rules ally in say a witch hunters inquisitor and temple assassin, there by netting you 2 temple assassins?

[Chengar Qordath]

Warriors do have a lot of potential for nastiness; hard not to like a unit that can really spam special weapons.

 

Chimera bunkers also have some very nice possibilities; 3 heavy weapon servitors shooting out the top hatch, plus the Chimera's firepower, is a lot of shots for a pretty low price. For extra fun, throw in a psyker squad; five of them are enough for a very nasty pieplate of doom.

 

Jokaero are another big inclusion for any shooting unit; some of their bonuses make shooting very nasty (24" meltaguns/36" multimeltas and rending flamers/heavy bolters)

 

This codex is going to cost me so much money; I have a feeling I'll be running a pure GK force and a Coteaz Inquisition-heavy force.

[DV8]

To be honest here's a question, How will the new inquisitors and assassins work with the current witch hunters dex? will they replace them? or will you be able to through the rules ally in say a witch hunters inquisitor and temple assassin, there by netting you 2 temple assassins?

 

The Allies mechanic is gone and done with.

 

 

DV8

[Gentlemanloser]

You will still be able to ally a WH Assassin (with a WH Inquisitor to unlock) into a new GK list.

 

Why you would want to, (unless it's for the missing "AWIYE") I'll never know. There is no reaosn to use the old Vindicare when you have the otential for a new one.

 

And while the others have been nerfed, they *really* weren't a good choice anyway...

[Irbis]

Ok, since this thread is meandering... Let me ask three hypothetical questions.

 

A ) Is T3 3++ IC a good match for A6 re-rollable wound/save PW or will I4 mean her death before she strikes?

 

B ) Is new Vindicare worth taking?

 

C ) Is there a better unit in the Codex than Purifier squad as we know now?

[Vindicatus]

Let me answer B for you :

 

Look at the other assassins and how they match up. The Eversor doesn't explode anymore, the Callidus no longer gets 'A word in your ear', nor can she harm vehicles any longer. The anti-psyker one is spotty at best, but it could be used well in certain situations.

 

But the Vindicare... the Vindi no longer has a limit to the types of 'special shells' he uses. He still picks out targets for wounds that YOU choose, not your opponent, and now rolls a disgusting 4d6+3(sniper)+d3(rending) for vehicle penetration with one of those rounds. On top of taking away (permenantly) an invulnerable save from a model for the remainder of the game? You can seriously harrass someone with those kinds of odds. Even the PISTOL uses those rounds.

 

I think he's definitely worth his weight, compared to the others.

[Gentlemanloser]

A ) Is T3 3++ IC a good match for A6 re-rollable wound/save PW or will I4 mean her death before she strikes?

 

For her points? (She's got a 3+/4++ save). Take a Brotherhood Champion instead. And his attacks won't hurt him.

 

B ) Is new Vindicare worth taking?

 

Yes and no.

 

He's far better than he used to be, and the best tihng in the game at popping vehicles. A dream if you face tri 'lith or Raider lists.

 

He still suffers from at best, only killing 1 thing per turn.

 

C ) Is there a better unit in the Codex than Purifier squad as we know now?

 

Only the DreadKnight. :ermm:

 

and now rolls a disgusting 4d6+3(sniper)+d3(rending) for vehicle penetration with one of those rounds.

 

It's worse. :tu:

 

It's 3 + 4d6 + 4d3 (if all 4 gets 6's and rend).

 

He's even better if in the final product he rends on a 4+, like the handwritten note suggested.

[Irbis]

The anti-psyker one is spotty at best, but it could be used well in certain situations.

 

Spotty? If not for Brotherhood of Psykers rule, he would murder absolutely anything :P

 

But the Vindicare... the Vindi no longer has a limit to the types of 'special shells' he uses. He still picks out targets for wounds that YOU choose, not your opponent, and now rolls a disgusting 4d6+3(sniper)+d3(rending) for vehicle penetration with one of those rounds. On top of taking away (permenantly) an invulnerable save from a model for the remainder of the game? You can seriously harrass someone with those kinds of odds. Even the PISTOL uses those rounds.

 

Ah, right, forgot about that. So, he can be nice Land Raider/Monolith (unless these extra d6 are nullified) killer. Still, he lost two very important abilities: 1) shooting units locked in combat (though, new GKs won't be locked for long...) and 2) killing your own units.

 

By the way, anti-++ round only works on wargear, making it much less useful :ermm: Time will tell if GK still have means of bypassing 'natural' ++ saves. Maybe Psilencers?

 

We would be also good (What Power Klaw? Huh?) unit fixer, which is good.

 

Take a Brotherhood Champion instead. And his attacks won't hurt him.

 

Well... the thing is, he also won't hurt anyone in return, save for ICs dumb enough to walk to him :tu: I'm seriously considering Crowe now, though, Purifiers make awesome gunlines and are as good as Terminators in combat.

 

Thanks for replies regarding Valeria, I guess I'll build my Amberley Vail counts-as from normal OX Inquisitor then :unsure: Though, the only female torsos and heads in the entire WH40K range seem to belong to Dark Eldar/Eldar, as WH are poor conversion material.

[Vindicatus]

You could kill your own units with him? O_o I fail to see why that's a good thing, but alright.

 

And yeah, that whole 'shooting into combat' thing was freakin' outstanding. Hopefully some measure of that sticks around

[Gentlemanloser]

Well... the thing is, he also won't hurt anyone in return, save for ICs dumb enough to walk to him

 

True, he'll only get 1A on anything in B2B with him. But he reroll's everything, at S4/5. Plus he'll kill something when he dies. And he's a wonderful force multiplier. :P

 

I'd take that, for less points, over an IC that gets 6 S3 PW attacks, where 2 of them could hit her instead. And the BC has better saves. ;)

[Justcar]

Well... the thing is, he also won't hurt anyone in return, save for ICs dumb enough to walk to him

 

True, he'll only get 1A on anything in B2B with him. But he reroll's everything, at S4/5. Plus he'll kill something when he dies. And he's a wonderful force multiplier. :woot:

 

I'd take that, for less points, over an IC that gets 6 S3 PW attacks, where 2 of them could hit her instead. And the BC has better saves. :lol:

 

The BC can ALWAYS Attack pretty decently! If you give a unit, that unit will re-roll to hits along with him (a-la Titan's Herald)! In addition, he can either attack all models in BTB OR make D3 I10 attacks with a +1 for charging!

[Justcar]

Well... the thing is, he also won't hurt anyone in return, save for ICs dumb enough to walk to him

 

True, he'll only get 1A on anything in B2B with him. But he reroll's everything, at S4/5. Plus he'll kill something when he dies. And he's a wonderful force multiplier. :woot:

 

I'd take that, for less points, over an IC that gets 6 S3 PW attacks, where 2 of them could hit her instead. And the BC has better saves. :lol:

 

The BC can ALWAYS Attack pretty decently! If you give a unit, that unit will re-roll to hits along with him (a-la Titan's Herald)! In addition, he can either attack all models in BTB OR make D3 I10 attacks with a +1 for charging!

[Gentlemanloser]

Those D3 attacks can only be made agianst an IC or MC though.

[Kurb]

Speculating on speculation will lead you only to headaches.

 

I don't see any way the points values in the leaked dex are accurate.

 

If by some very Odd reason they are well:

 

 

GK strike squads are better than Blood Angels in Assault/Jumping Around

Warbands do IG vet spam better than IG does IG and would pretty much break the game. :D :lol:

[Vindicatus]

Speculating on speculation will lead you only to headaches.

 

I don't see any way the points values in the leaked dex are accurate.

 

If by some very Odd reason they are well:

 

 

GK strike squads are better than Blood Angels in Assault/Jumping Around

Warbands do IG vet spam better than IG does IG and would pretty much break the game. :D :lol:

 

 

Uhm. Because they ARE better. That's the entire standard operating procedure and attack profile for initiating a strike against a daemon, cultist group, warp rift, Starbucks, or the Eye of Terror.

 

Perhaps it also has something to do with the fact that Grey Knights aren't subject to going :cuss:'ing crazy at a moments notice.

[Kurb]

Speculating on speculation will lead you only to headaches.

 

I don't see any way the points values in the leaked dex are accurate.

 

If by some very Odd reason they are well:

 

 

GK strike squads are better than Blood Angels in Assault/Jumping Around

Warbands do IG vet spam better than IG does IG and would pretty much break the game. :lol: :lol:

 

 

Uhm. Because they ARE better. That's the entire standard operating procedure and attack profile for initiating a strike against a daemon, cultist group, warp rift, Starbucks, or the Eye of Terror.

 

Perhaps it also has something to do with the fact that Grey Knights aren't subject to going :cuss:'ing crazy at a moments notice.

 

 

You misunderstand my point.

 

For roughly 235 points you get 10 Assault Marines with a fist and 2 melta

 

For roughly 280 points you get 10 GKStrikers with teleporters/2 psycannons/10 power weapons and storm bolters that can and usually will hit at Str 5.

 

Obviously 1 on 1 the GK should beat down a BA squad.

I'm referring to the niche of an army and how GK's are doing similar things better and CHEAPER.

 

Which is why I think the PDF and the final version should have some significant changes in points cost and rules.

 

 

 

^_^

[Darkmagi]

Speculating on speculation will lead you only to headaches.

 

I don't see any way the points values in the leaked dex are accurate.

 

If by some very Odd reason they are well:

 

 

GK strike squads are better than Blood Angels in Assault/Jumping Around

Warbands do IG vet spam better than IG does IG and would pretty much break the game. :) :)

 

 

Uhm. Because they ARE better. That's the entire standard operating procedure and attack profile for initiating a strike against a daemon, cultist group, warp rift, Starbucks, or the Eye of Terror.

 

Perhaps it also has something to do with the fact that Grey Knights aren't subject to going :P:'ing crazy at a moments notice.

 

 

You misunderstand my point.

 

For roughly 235 points you get 10 Assault Marines with a fist and 2 melta

 

For roughly 280 points you get 10 GKStrikers with teleporters/2 psycannons/10 power weapons and storm bolters that can and usually will hit at Str 5.

 

Obviously 1 on 1 the GK should beat down a BA squad.

I'm referring to the niche of an army and how GK's are doing similar things better and CHEAPER.

 

Which is why I think the PDF and the final version should have some significant changes in points cost and rules.

 

 

 

:P

 

Auctually according to the leaked pdf it would be 8 power weapons as the psycannon replaces the NFW and Stormbolter

[Irbis]

You could kill your own units with him? O_o I fail to see why that's a good thing, but alright.

 

For example, to kill that last GK in CC with enemy Bloodthirster so that all your other units could legally open fire on him.

 

Those D3 attacks can only be made agianst an IC or MC though.

 

Yup. And if we're talking about Champions, can anyone tell me why I would ever use Defensive Stance? For tarpitting?

 

For roughly 235 points you get 10 Assault Marines with a fist and 2 melta

 

For roughly 280 points you get 10 GKStrikers with teleporters/2 psycannons/10 power weapons and storm bolters that can and usually will hit at Str 5.

 

Obviously 1 on 1 the GK should beat down a BA squad.

I'm referring to the niche of an army and how GK's are doing similar things better and CHEAPER.

 

...You say cheaper, I see 20% more expensive. That, and Psycannon is worse than Melta, and a lack of ID weapon sucks, too.

 

Yes, new GK are good, but not that good.