Electrolytes Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 In the rule book it states that all Dreadnaught close combat weapons are Str 10. Does that mean that Blood Talons are also Str10? Someone told me they aren't they are just the same Str as the Dreadnaught. :/ Anyone clarify this for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Blood Talons are not DCCW, they follow the rules for Lightning Claws as per the codex. So your friend is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrolytes Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 *eye roll* Makes no sense tbh. But thanks anyway :blush: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurb Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 fwiw you are still (usually) wounding on 2's and hitting on 3's Blood Talon dreads just do nasty things to most any troop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Why would any one take Blood Fists if Blood Talons were the same strength for the same cost with better rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrolytes Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 Why would any one take Blood Fists if Blood Talons were the same strength for the same cost with better rules? Â the reason I said it doesn't make any sense is because... they are close combat weapons, you use them in close combat and they are fitted onto a dreadnaught, so in fact they ARE dreadnaught close combat weapons. :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Why would any one take Blood Fists if Blood Talons were the same strength for the same cost with better rules? Â the reason I said it doesn't make any sense is because... they are close combat weapons, you use them in close combat and they are fitted onto a dreadnaught, so in fact they ARE dreadnaught close combat weapons. :S Â They are close combat weapons for dreadnoughts. They are not Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrolytes Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 Why would any one take Blood Fists if Blood Talons were the same strength for the same cost with better rules? Â the reason I said it doesn't make any sense is because... they are close combat weapons, you use them in close combat and they are fitted onto a dreadnaught, so in fact they ARE dreadnaught close combat weapons. :S Â They are close combat weapons for dreadnoughts. They are not Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons. Â So why is the Furioso force sword str 10? thats a close combat weapon for a dreadnought its a sword at the end of the arm, like the claws at the end of the fist. :/ I think this is a case of "its like that because otherwise it would just be OTT" more than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 So why is the Furioso force sword str 10? thats a close combat weapon for a dreadnought its a sword at the end of the arm, like the claws at the end of the fist. :/ Is it? I thought LibDread gets S10 with Sanguine Sword power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 because it isnt? the libby dread has a dccw and a str 6 force weapon. it must choose what it attacks with but gans the additional ccw attack... its all in the entry somewhere.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 because it isnt? the libby dread has a dccw and a str 6 force weapon. it must choose what it attacks with but gans the additional ccw attack... its all in the entry somewhere.... exactly. Â The Force Weapon still fights at normal strength. Â A Dreadnought close combat weapon is a specific weapon, like a power fist or a thunder hammer. It is not a simple phrase referring to all close combat weapons on a dreadnought. Â The Blood Fist is a DCCW. The Blood Talon or Force Weapon are not (nor is the chainfist on an ironclad, but that's not a BA thing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealadin Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 because it isnt? the libby dread has a dccw and a str 6 force weapon. it must choose what it attacks with but gans the additional ccw attack... its all in the entry somewhere.... Â Its not really an issue with the Libby Dread unless your facing something you want to force weapon to death and str 6 isn't enough. Against a vehicle you use the DCCW, against most other stuff you use the Force Weapon. If you have a priest nearby your str 7 anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 not nessiarily, str 10 ista kils most thins, like nobs and warriors, so i would stick with it till i came up against something like a fex or tyrant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 not nessiarily, str 10 ista kils most thins, like nobs and warriors, so i would stick with it till i came up against something like a fex or tyrant... This. Â Against something like Nid warriors, using the blood fist is better (and lets you take advantage of a psychic power such as unleash rage or might). Each wound can cause ID instead of 1 wound with the force weapon, also still causes ID even if the opponent has psychic defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vharing Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Blood fists (DCCW) have the same rules as SM power fists. Doubles the bearers str to a max of 10. It states in the dread stat line that they are only str 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrolytes Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 So that would mean that on a Furioso Lib one attack is base Str then the other is Str 10? because it has one fist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Lucius Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 No, when in combat with 2 Special CC weapons I.E the Force weapon/Fist, then at the beginning of the combat you must decide which weapon you are going to use. You will then use all of your attacks with that weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 RTFR, people. Â A Dreadnaught is base STR 6. Strong, but not super strong. No big, that's just how he rolls. The term "Dreadnaught close combat weapon" Is simply the official name for the Blood Fist or regular old meat tenderizer that Dreddy's call hands. These things are POWERFISTS, which mean they double his strength to a max of 10 and make it a powerweapon attack (Like he needs it with str10 I know but I feel the need to mention that he is a walker not an MC so his attacks are not power weapon attacks unless mentioned. Otherwise you could go around beaning people with your lascannon arm and it wouldn't matter.) and because he's a Dreadnaught and generally used to being pretty heavy he strikes at initiative instead of I1. If he has two Blood Fists he gets an extra attack for having two identical weapons which is one of the reasons our Dreadnaughts are bosses. This means that the Furioso has the ability to threaten pretty much anything your opponent has that likes to not be rendered down into squishy pulps or piles of metal. Â Which brings me to my next point, Blood Talons. As mentioned in the codex these function as Lightning Claws, which means once again power weapons (yay!), once again, an extra attack if you bring a pair (double yay!), the ability to re-roll a failed "to wound" roll, and because the Dreadnaught once again, is a boss, his LC's do something special as well. If you have a pair of talons, not only do you get an extra attack, but each time he causes an unsaved wound in CC, he gets another attack, right there. These attacks can generate more attacks and so on and so forth until you either roll crap or the enemy squad is successfully pureed. In case you need a little clarification on that last metaphor, Blood Talons make your furioso into a giant blender for infantry units. Enemy squad goes in, heretic-flavored smoothie comes out. Â And finally Dreadnaught force weapons. Being standard power weapons, they give him PW attacks at STR 6, once again, formidable but not mind blowing. This CAN be jacked up to STR 10 using the appropriate psychic power, however since his other weapon is a blood fist (which is to say, already a str 10 head puncher) I don't know what you'd really need to use the FW on since anything that you'd need STR 10 on just to be able to use the weapons insta-gib on stands a good chance of having Eternal Warrior anyway. Because he has a different weapon in each hand, in the rulebook states that he must pick which to use at the start of combat. IMHO you're better off subbing Sanguine Sword for Might of Heroes or something other killy power and Wings of Sanguinius, that way you can fly your Dread around the board and make Richard Nixon sounds for him. Â In summation: Blood Fists: Punch punch bang kill death. Blood Talon: Hi, thirty guardsmen. Have fun being turned into mulch. Force weapon: "GAROOOOOOOOOOOO!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Lucius Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Thank you Taz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Yorei Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 talons do not use the same rules because they are more of a finesse weapon whereas the claws are more "brutal" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 talons do not use the same rules because they are more of a finesse weapon whereas the claws are more "brutal"  HOLD IT! http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h35/redqueen16/Warhammer/Spacemarineobjection.jpg     *Puts on reading glasses.* -Ahem-  Page 60 of the Blood Angels codex, the wargear section. Blood TalonsBlood Talons use the same rules as lightning claws.  How exactly did you think they were supposed to differ? I don't want to have to say rtfr over and over but come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I think he meant the Fists are more brutal. Easy up there, Phoenix Wright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I guess you're right. Though proofreading a post could have avoided the whole thing. I don't get enough excuses to use that picture. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 OBJECTION! Â Anyway, Death Company Dreadnoughts should always have Talons. Rule of Cool damnit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Not to mention the extra attack DC dreads get increases the effectiveness of the talons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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