NightrawenII Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 By his logic, over 100 do. And do they disagree? Can you prove that 90 percent, have not, at one time or another, used camo? They will use whatever means necessary to win. If that means using camo, they will use camo. Considering SMs modus operandi, such situation will be rarity. You bring up the Tigers of WWII, but did you know that they were also often concealed with camo? Yes, but I'm using the Tiger as an example of psychological weapon. You get a much better effect if they don't see you, you pop out, you kill a few in an ambush, and then you hid again. Now they know Space Marines are there (and still fear them), only now they think, "Oh gods, they can be anywhere!" So now they have to watch their backs. Except, the Marines show up, slaughter everyone in the vicinity and then move on to next target. No need for sneaking around. They are shock troopers, not ninja's. The motto is "We are here and you are going to die. No exceptions, no salvation." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2696332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I have read plenty of Canon Stories where the war was bogged down, and it ended up taking them months, sometimes even years, to win the battle on a single world. There is one listed under Captain Shrike. There are also several others, if you go reading around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2696335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Seeing as how GW has given us at least one Chapter that uses camo I don't see it as a big issue. BUT, and that is a big but, you will need to provide a very good reason why your marines have chosen the road less travelled for Space Maines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2696336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkchild130 Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 Road less travelled? The Codex Astartes itself has camouflage patterns in it, my chapter believe in using the Codex intelligently, hows that for a reason. Darkchild Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2696371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I was reading Lexicanium on camo, I think the Raptors use the Codex Camo pattern ... but its a solid pattern from what I read. Did you see something different? I really haven't looked that much into Camo before. Did find some really cool quote from Space Marines that hate camo ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2696388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkchild130 Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 well the entire list of Codex approved camouflage, like many other things, has never been tied down. So in a typically GW fashion, it can be anything. to be clear, there is more than one codex approved camo pattern, The raptors themselves (masters of astartes sneakery) change their pattern dependant on the terrain. My chapter also do this, as it is in the codex. Darkchild Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2696393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 As I've said, I have no problem with camo ... I just don't plan on using it for my marines. To each his/her own ... that's what makes us one big family here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2696449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mordray Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 To back up the astartes camo usage argument... the Red scorpions (a very strict codex chapter) are noted for their use of codex approved camo. Also just to remind everyone this argument is old indeed. GW fluff basically says marines don't use camo because they don't need it... reason says that's a load of crap... the fan says the fluff says it's not... and round the wheel we go. Me I prefer marines not so dead and don't see them as gods of war just very heavy infantry that can take a hell of a beating... that doesn't mean that they should be going around inviting attention upon themselves. The problem is that GW fluff is filled of "Mary Sue"isms for every race but especially for the Space Marines. In reality even if the colors of a marine chapter were great for inspiring fear it also serve as a ready feed for drawing enemy fire. PA might be tough but it's not that tough. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2696596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Give me the quote where the fluff says that they don't use cammo. Give me the quote where the fluff says that they don't use cammo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2696726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 To back up the astartes camo usage argument... the Red scorpions (a very strict codex chapter) are noted for their use of codex approved camo. Other way around. The Red Scorpions don't use the camo, because: Minor Drawback: Have Pride in your Colours The Red Scorpions shun the use of camouflage, and its attendant tactics such as covert operations, stealth and infiltration. These are the tactics of cowardice, and have no place amongst the honoured ranks of the Red Scorpions. No Red Scorpions may use the Infiltrators or Scouts special rules. Red Scorpions Scout squads must deploy just like any other units. @Telanicus The uniforms of the Imperial Guard are camouflaged in order to protect their wearers by hiding them from sight. The principle is that what the enemy cannot see he cannot kill. This is not the way of the Adeptus Astartes. A Space Marine’s armour is bright with heraldry that proclaims his devotion to his Chapter and the beloved Emperor of Mankind. Our principle is that what the enemy can see, he will soon learn to fear… +++ Chaplain Aston, 10th Company, Fire Hawks Chapter +++ Edit: The heraldries of the Space Marine Chapters are bold and striking, more akin to a medieval knight's costume than to a uniformed soldier. This is quite deliberate as the Space Marines have little need or desire to disguise their presence on the field of battle. In fact they wish their foes to know that it is Space Marines they face and to be suitably cowed. In addition they are justly proud of their Chapter's heritage and of the honours it has won in battle. ~ Insignium Astartes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2697357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkchild130 Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Me I prefer marines not so dead and don't see them as gods of war just very heavy infantry that can take a hell of a beating... that doesn't mean that they should be going around inviting attention upon themselves. The problem is that GW fluff is filled of "Mary Sue"isms for every race but especially for the Space Marines. In reality even if the colors of a marine chapter were great for inspiring fear it also serve as a ready feed for drawing enemy fire. PA might be tough but it's not that tough. that. I dont care about inspiring fear, I care about killing the enemy. Darkchild Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2697411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generating Random Name... Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 What about scouts though? Obviously they have Camo cloaks but do they still not have dumbed down colours on their armour? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2697489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 To the Red Scorpions: "The chapter is vehemently opposed to the use of camouflage designs not described within the codex." "M41 Galen V Suppression (Galen V Expeditionary Force) - involved Land Raiders in Codex Approved Cobalt/Ammonium desert camouflage for the cobalt chromate deserts of Galen V. 906.M41 Angstrom Incident - Involving Red Scorpion pursuit squads in Codex red/black disruptive camouflage. Lexicanum Mantis Warrior Raptors Red Scorpions Emperor's Warbringers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2697641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 The Red Scorpions don't use the camo, because: Minor Drawback: Have Pride in your Colours The Red Scorpions shun the use of camouflage, and its attendant tactics such as covert operations, stealth and infiltration. These are the tactics of cowardice, and have no place amongst the honoured ranks of the Red Scorpions. No Red Scorpions may use the Infiltrators or Scouts special rules. Red Scorpions Scout squads must deploy just like any other units. That was retconned recently to just being Carab Culln's viewpoint. The Red Scorpions themselves are said to use camo again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2697786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkchild130 Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 What about scouts though? Obviously they have Camo cloaks but do they still not have dumbed down colours on their armour? My scouts use the same colour scheme as the company they are attached to. Darkchild Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2697794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generating Random Name... Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 What about scouts though? Obviously they have Camo cloaks but do they still not have dumbed down colours on their armour? My scouts use the same colour scheme as the company they are attached to. Darkchild I was more speaking about chapters that do not use camouflage (Sp?), but it makes sense for yours to do that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2697834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galrion Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I could have sworn I read that the Lexicanum was notorious for having incorrect information and we were advised to steer clear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2697888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 The Red Scorpions don't use the camo, because: Minor Drawback: Have Pride in your Colours The Red Scorpions shun the use of camouflage, and its attendant tactics such as covert operations, stealth and infiltration. These are the tactics of cowardice, and have no place amongst the honoured ranks of the Red Scorpions. No Red Scorpions may use the Infiltrators or Scouts special rules. Red Scorpions Scout squads must deploy just like any other units. That was retconned recently to just being Carab Culln's viewpoint. The Red Scorpions themselves are said to use camo again. Semi-retconned. ^_^ According to the pg. 84 of the Badab War book 1, this is view point of the whole Chapter, but they use camo when 'strictly needed'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2698036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I could have sworn I read that the Lexicanum was notorious for having incorrect information and we were advised to steer clear. That info is also in Rogue Trader, the first few rule books that would be the equivalent to codexes, and even some modern stuff. The point is, that while space marines may not ALWAYS wear cammo, they can, and they will when needed. I have seen Nightrawen and many others use quotes from Lexicanum, and it is actually somewhat accurate (they site where it is from too.) I use it as they use it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2698296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I only quote the Lexicanum when I know the information is accurate (from having read the source). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2698381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Here is an excerpt from the Codex: Space Marines about Codex Chapters: The Adeptus Terra has never felt it necessary to enforce the Codex absolutely. Indeed it is doubtful if it could. However, with subsequent foundings they have always favoured the Ultramarines' gene-seed and created new Codex Chapters from their line. With the passage of years, some of these chapters have subsequently strayed from the strict letter of the Codex, introducing new variations but remaining broadly faithful to the principles of Roboute Guilliman. ~Codex Space Marines, 5th Edition, The Codex Chapters, Page 9. So, space marines, as time has gone by, have started to STRAY from the Codex. This means, as long as he remains, "Broadly faithful to the principles," He can change things, such as camoflauge, and even some of his orginization. You can quote what you want, but this is the OFFICIAL Codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2698431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 So, space marines, as time has gone by, have started to STRAY from the Codex. This means, as long as he remains, "Broadly faithful to the principles," He can change things, such as camoflauge, and even some of his orginization. You can quote what you want, but this is the OFFICIAL Codex. Of course he can change what he wants, if the change is explained and plausible in tenets of W40k lore. Second, no one was questioning his use of camouflage. It was YOU, who was calling for quotes in vain hope to prove your opinion and I provided clear quotes supporting the opposite. Therefore there is no real reason to continue in this discussion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2698532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkchild130 Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 this particular debate is going nowhere, as we have all agreed that it is fine for the Null Blades to use camouflage, can we talk about something else? For example, what do people think of my drawings. I know they are simple, but this is deliberate as I know my limits and hopefully something simple and clearly drawn is better than something elaborate which I will struggle with. Do they work? Darkchild Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2698626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 They do, and they are great :huh:. To me it adds a level or realism. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2698792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkchild130 Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 Thankyou! I wasnt fishing for compliments btw, I genuinely want to know if they are worth keeping in there, cos if people think they are crap I'll take them out. Darkchild Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223436-null-blades/page/4/#findComment-2698832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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