few Questions

[Brother Oden]

So I had a few questions in putting my Kjarl Grimblood's Great Company together.

 

1) do i use all GH squads or is it worth it to bring some BCs? Ive seen talk on other posts of them not being worth the points in the new codex

 

2) I've got Krom in term armour with 4 WGs in the same, and was wondering if I should use the Crusader or the standard LR

 

3) Also if i take the LRC, i dont really have the money to buy more terminators right now would it be worth it to add WGs in power armour

 

4) also some fluff ideas for the GC besides load it up with flamers

 

Might come up with more as the night goes on but thanks for any help in advance, beers on me lads :P

 

Edit cause i put down the wrong great company that i chose lol

[Sigmund Hammerhand]

1) They're not great because while being only good in CC, other CC specialists will hack them apart due to their WS3, and against marines they kind of just don't cut it. Adding a wolf priest and Ragnar to the unit mitigates that somewhat, but I still don't consider them worth it. 4 attacks on the charge sounds very mighty indeed, but at the end of the day, they only kill 0.083 or 1/12th more (MEQs, that is) on the charge than grey hunters. And for the same price as GH they get that measly extra attack, but have to relinquish a point in WS, one in BS, and don't have bolters which makes them very inflexible indeed. Only real reason to take them is fluff, and if you really want to with Ragnar. But even so, grey hunters benefit more from the addition of Ragnar and a Wolf Priest, are more flexible and come at the same price. And GH can get a wolf standard, which is just about the best piece of equipment in the whole dex. With that, against standard attacks, GH become more durable than terminators for a turn (and any WGPL in TDA become basically unkillable)

 

2) If it's got a CC squad inside, you'll want the crusader any day, as it can get up close and personal without losing too much efficiency. A standard LR loses too much firepower when it's moving towards the opponent.

 

3) Adding some WG in power armour helps to soak up damage that'd otherwise take out a terminator, but they're a whole lot less resilient, and you can't realistically give them any special weapons other than combi-somethings because it's all too expensive.

[postal105]

claws are wort it if you can keep them behind your hunter squads or use the hunters to support the claws in some fashion and if its an objective based game use the hunters to hold objectives and when an opponent gets in striking distance of the claws to assault them do so but that is if you hold the claws behind the hunters or off to one side you have the claws assault the opponents unit that is closing on the hunters after the hunters have shot the piss out of the unit. i have had some success doing this and when i do it my opponent is some what caught by surprise that i would hold my claws back like that instead of rushing them ahead foolishly into his unit and falling short and allowing him to assault the claws thus neutering there amount of attack they get when they assault.

but then again i view blood claws the same way my friend who plays ultra marines views his basic scouts and that is as disposable

[Brother Oden]

yea my termies r CC, so it sounds like in that regard ill put them in the LRC and toss some basic WG for soaking up damage for my Frostblade and SS WG.

 

on another note wanna just say how much i LOVE the fang, got 2 replies right away.... asked somthing on another part of the forum and it took a whole week for 2 replies lol

[Quillen]

Back in the day they were a couple of points cheaper and had 3 special melee weapon guys. So they were worth it. Even thou they were pigion-holed into assaulting. This Dex they got uber nerfed. Just trashed to pieces. Points too high lost all but one Power Weapon/Fist. So why would you waste points on them.

 

So I decided to never take them. And there for I never need to buy them. So GW will never sell them to me and GW will go broke for stupid nerfing and bad codex writing. It's my master plan. Help me out in it.

[Sven Dragonfire]

My unit of Skyclaws took out a Deamon Prince in a game last week! I love bloodclaws and Skyclaws , just be careful what you assault with them, sure depending on your opponents, they will usually hit you on a 3, and the BCs will hit back on a 4, but they can work well especiallyif you keep an independant character with them , I often use a Battle lader or Rune priest, so they still get to lay down Bolt Pistol fire before charging and a Flamer for good measure. I KNOW Grey Hunters are a better buy points wise, but as mentioned if you love the fluff , use em!

Dont use Ragnar with them, his abilities are too good to waste on Bloodclaws (they already have +2 on charge and as noted suffer from the lower weapon skill), a unit of Wolf Guard in PA, tooled up and delivered by Landraider Redeemer is a game winner!

 

Quillen I promise I wont buy anymore! !! lol.

 

Good hunting Brother Oden.

[Brother Oden]

well I am planning on taking some sky-claws, jump marines just look to cool for me to pass up even if ours are a little greener thatn other chapters

[Sarapham]

So I decided to never take them. And there for I never need to buy them. So GW will never sell them to me and GW will go broke for stupid nerfing and bad codex writing. It's my master plan. Help me out in it.

 

Kinda hard to not buy them when they come from the box you use for pretty much EVERY other wolf unit :P

[Brother Oden]

lol thats what i was thinking.

so ive decided to cut the BCs and go with the LRC while filling out my 5 CC termies with standard WG to fill my LRC

 

So I've got a few more questions

 

I've got 2 GH squads one with all plasma guns to be a ranged unit and my second is going to be my assault sqaud and for now im going to be fightin orks mostly so take a free flamer over the melta right?

 

also im using some long fangs and my load out is 2 heavy bolters a lascannon and a plasma cannon, is this an ok load out or anyone have some suggestions? FYI i was bringing 2 heavy bolters cause im facing mostly orks

 

and also fluff ideas for making my Kjarl termie. I'm bringing a wolf lord for just cause i want a some what fluff army and so I want people to see the shoulder symbol and then see the model and know that he is Kjarl..... well if they know anything about SW that is lol if that makes sense.

[postal105]

yes take the 2 free flamers against the orcs that way you can do some dmg to a mob of 30 chapa boys an daginst orcs i would field in my long fangs all missile lunches tha tway you can chose frag or krak missiles

[Sigmund Hammerhand]

I've got 2 GH squads one with all plasma guns to be a ranged unit and my second is going to be my assault sqaud and for now im going to be fightin orks mostly so take a free flamer over the melta right?

 

That depends whether you want to tailor your army. If so, then it might be one of the better choices.

 

I am very much against doing such a thing, however. If you plan on playing tournaments you have to learn to be able to make do with what you have. And in order for that to be possible, you'll have to have a list that can deal with anything that comes at you, and two flamers are terribly inflexible. Infantry are slow, so you'll struggle to take advantage of both flamers a lot of the time. Meltas are, in general, a much better choice for assault oriented GH because they can blow up vehicles very reliably, and the prevalence of armour (even in horde armies like orks) makes it almost an imperative to have many meltas in your list. So for an army that is meant to be optimized as you learn more, but mostly stay at least in the same sort of realm of play style, you'll want those meltas. They are also very cheap, too - 5 points for both. That's a hell of a bargain.

 

The plasma guns are good - although I'd suggest using a wolf standard even on ranged units. For a turn they become tougher than termies in combat against normal attacks, so they'll be able to hold out until some help arrives to bail them out.

 

also im using some long fangs and my load out is 2 heavy bolters a lascannon and a plasma cannon, is this an ok load out or anyone have some suggestions? FYI i was bringing 2 heavy bolters cause im facing mostly orks

 

Same comment here - specialising against a certain opponent mans you don't learn to have tactical flexibility. What ultimately wins you the game is partly having the right tools for the job, but mostly knowing how to handle a situation with what you have - imagine you have several packs, only one of which has a flamer, and you are outmaneouvred by your opponent, so they end up not being where they are needed?

If you can't make do with what you have available in a given situation because you are used to a tailored list where you'll always have what you need, you'll find yourself in a very tough situation, and you will most likely be defeated.

 

The long fang loadout that is by far the most popular because it's the cheapest, and very flexible, is only missile launchers in a squad. That way you don't have to split fire to maximise efficiency, and therefore the first to die will be the pack leader (bit unfluffy, that, but tactically sound - ideally your opponent should have enough worries to not shoot at the long fangs at all), and you won't lose effectiveness.

 

They can't take on things like Leman russes, but even lascannons aren't terribly reliable against those (only railguns are, at long range), so you'll be wanting to take them out at close range with the aformentioned melta squads (I run 3 packs of 9 Grey hunters with melta and pack leader with fist/combimelta, so I'm bound to have them where I need them) because meltas are the only thing that can be relied upon to take down heavy armour.

 

The all missile launcher loadout will also not cost you any more points than the current one you have.

 

Another issue with long fangs designed to split fire (by having anti-infantry weapons and anti tank weaponry), is that a smart opponent will saturate them with small arms fire to force saves on the pack leader until he dies, and with that he will effectively halve the potency of your long fangs, which is a bit of an achilles heel of those guys.

[Grimfoe]

Back in the day they were a couple of points cheaper and had 3 special melee weapon guys. So they were worth it. Even thou they were pigion-holed into assaulting. This Dex they got uber nerfed. Just trashed to pieces. Points too high lost all but one Power Weapon/Fist. So why would you waste points on them.

 

So I decided to never take them. And there for I never need to buy them. So GW will never sell them to me and GW will go broke for stupid nerfing and bad codex writing. It's my master plan. Help me out in it.

 

Actually, back in my day they were WS5 and BS3 and they were really worth it. (which is why I have so many painted) I never use BC now. I can't get past the nerfed WS. They just get torn apart too easily.

 

That said, they can have a place in the right army. Sven mentions using them to kill a Daemon Prince. They are just as effective as GH against anything that is WS 5 or higher. And cheaper to boot. I just wish they could have a few more PW or PF.

[Valerian]

yes take the 2 free flamers against the orcs that way you can do some dmg to a mob of 30 chapa boys an daginst orcs i would field in my long fangs all missile lunches tha tway you can chose frag or krak missiles

 

My recommendation is to never put Flamers in a unit that doesn't have good tactical mobility; if you can't maneuver the Flamer to get it placed right, then it isn't doing you any good, and you might as well just keep your Bolter. Flamers work well on Sky Claws and Swift Claws. They can also work alright from Rhino mounted Hunter packs. They won't work at all, however, if your pack is on foot, hiding in cover, shooting at an incoming mob of Orks that is charging across the table toward your lines.

 

Valerian

[Grimfoe]

I'm not sure I agree about the flamers. I don't think they'll ever really outperform plasma guns and you're really limiting the effectiveness of your special weapons if you take flamers. The're simply no good against anyone in power armor.

 

With orks, you can use the flamers well, but only once. You should get 3 shots with a plasma gun before you get attacked by the orks. (provided you don't blow up) The math hammer is a little odd, because you can't be sure how many you'll get in the template, but I think the flamer is only marginally better than plasma against orks and plasma is better against everything else. Even vehicles at times.