Grey knight Successor Chapter.

[NurseNinja]

Scribe Arjibald Deacon hand shook a little as he penned the opening lines.

 

'Exploratory conclave of the Sub-Committee for the base closing commission. Skullsday the 23rd, month of Augustus, 196.M36 Year of the twice tailed comet. Present: Grand-Master of the Grey Knights of Titan, castilan of the citidel of basalt. Scribe Arjibald Deacon, clerk of the combined bureaucracy. Committee chair: High Lord of the Administratum of mankind, Cleric to the Emperor of mankind and Imperial Eccliciarch, Gorge Vandire, his mercy be upon us. Committee meeting topic: the Warp Stone Anomaly, adherance to the codex Astartes and imperial funding and maintainability of the titan military base.'

 

Across an obsidian table two of the most powerful men in the imperium sat across from one another, one supreme ruler of two of the pillars of imperial rule, the other the result of archaic and unknowable science and will, a warrior peerless...

 

+ + + Pause Playback + + +

 

 

 

So. with the up and coming grey knight codex an awesome opertunity has fallen upon us. I am of course talking about.... convertions ...trouble is, grey knights dont lend themselves intrinsicly to conversions or DIY chapters... so hopefully you guys can help me coalesce some ideas into hopefuly a cool and beautiful army.

 

First I dont necciccerily want my army to be 'grey knights' but I do want to use the rules and models :) what I want is a successor chapter and I think Ive made a little teoretical progress on the that front. The reign of blood, lord vandire, rules the imperium with an iron first, lord of the eccliciarchy and administratum, both pope and president. If ever there was a man at the top who would think little of sticking his genitals into the coffee of the grey knights and stirring it its this man.

 

I figure my little experiment is his little experiment, this is before Thor and full blown civil war, the inquisition might look sideways at the Vandire, but truth be told they arnt mentioned as siding with anyone and certainly never took him down, infact many inquisitors must have looked at the comming rebelions and conflict and sided with the imperium against heretical ol Thor.

 

So: exactly what nature of my planned army is, and their relationship to the grey knights is, im not sure.

 

Secondly. Conversions!! I have in my hand a baggy of the best stuff from here to london, thats right 60 sanginary guard death masks.

 

http://bitzbarn.com/oscommerce/catalog/images/IMG_8174.JPGhttp://bitzbarn.com/oscommerce/catalog/images/IMG_8176.JPGhttp://bitzbarn.com/oscommerce/catalog/images/IMG_8178.JPG

 

And I plan to stick these bad boys on the new plastic grey knights. apart from that im not really sure... Ill probably keep it simple... maybe shoulder pad swaps but thats it I think... certainly cant say much more without seeing the new plastics.

 

Of course if the rumors are true about ultra flexible inquisitorial henchmen squards then they too will be a fantastic opertunity to make something that supports the fluff and feel for the chapter.

 

 

 

Thirdly. I HATE BOLTGUN METAL. actualy I dont but I really want something different as the colour scheme. something really different.

 

 

Soo... when I have more ill post again, otherwise I would love your help.

[Darkchild130]

You will get flamed for suggesting a Grey knights successor. In keeping with the Vandire theme, why not say they are a chapter of Marines created during the age of apostasy to command the forces of the Frateris templar? That seems cool to me and gives you the freedom to use whatever rules you want, as Vandire was a nutter.

 

Darkchild

[Generating Random Name...]

IMHO this is not a good idea here. Also it might be a good idea to make two threads, one for the fluff, one for the models.

[NurseNinja]

Things that may or may not fit into this design concept.

 

 

-The Warp Stone Anomaly. A bizarre agglutination of the unphysics of the warp with the mathematical impossibilities of a dead star / black hole. (I used this in a game of dark heresy). an open gateway to the warp located on the event horizon of a super massive black hole, the warp pours forth but is trapped in the gravity well of the black hole, the resulting infinite compression of warp energy results in a condensate called warpstone. maybe, eventualy the energy contained within the black hole equals the gravitational 'suck' of the black hole, the even horizon colapses and a nightmarish and powerful anomaly is created. warp stone does pretty much the same as you might think it does. anything the story requires :) essentialy I figured a orbiting base of this thing might be a good homeplanet / base

 

-painting them to look like psykers

 

-There used to be this theory that maybe the twin tailed com in warhammer fantasy was a drop pod, that valten (I think thats the guys name) was a space marine, maybe even one of th unknown primarchs, that the "Chariots" of the gods that fourght over the warhammer planet were space ships and that the portal at the north where all the chaos comes from was infact a warp rift from its drive, that some of the more advanced tech was cause the world was in the 40k universe, possible near the eye of terror. Essentialy adding this element would involve adding alot of twin tailed comet and empire heraldry and symbolism and maybe bits to the models.

 

 

why not say they are a chapter of Marines created during the age of apostasy to command the forces of the Frateris templar? That seems cool to me and gives you the freedom to use whatever rules you want, as Vandire was a nutter.

I do like that... maybe, recruited from the frat boys? my only concern is over the marque of the grey knight armour and equipment... just giving that stuff to someone else, seems unlikly... maybe it was a comprimise? what could vandire hold over their head? their origins? [now being hinted at as being from non-traitor traitor legions in the books]

[Ecritter]

IMHO this is not a good idea on this thread.

 

That was hardly helpful :)

 

Now as to reasons this is a bad idea.

 

* Grey Knights have no Primarch and an unknown geneseed.

* Grey Knights were actually commissioned by the Emperor himself ... not a successor of anyone.

* Grey Knights pretty much answer to no one, unless you count the Emperor.

 

Now as an alternative, you could make a DIY Chapter with a Grey Knights feel to it. And since we don't deal with game rules here, you can play them however you want.

[Generating Random Name...]

IMHO this is not a good idea on this thread.

 

That was hardly helpful :P

 

I sitting there typing it, and then tried to justify it in my head... And couln't come up with anything better than "People will not like" Or what DarkChild130 said.

 

I probaby should have stuck to the rule of "Ssh..."

 

I think if you can take the basic idea of "Like the Grey knights" and justify it it'll work well though, so don't listen to me :blush:

[Ecritter]

I sitting there typing it, and then tried to justify it in my head... And couln't come up with anything better than "People will not like" Or what DarkChild130 said.

 

I probaby should have stuck to the rule of "Ssh..."

 

I think if you can take the basic idea of "Like the Grey knights" and justify it it'll work well though, so don't listen to me :blush:

 

I'm not saying you were wrong. Trying to work on a successor Chapter to a Chapter that has no successors is going to be very difficult to say the least. Add in the spelling and context errors and most anyone replying is going to be .... well harsh. What I'm saying is that we need to give alternatives to help the OP out.

[Direach]

I agree that declaring your DIY Chapter a successor to the Grey Knights is almost guaranteed to incite furious nerdrage and reflexive rejection of your work, no matter how well conceived. I am very much in favour of using the Grey Knight models to create something new and personalized that you will enjoy authoring and playing, though.

 

You may be better off waiting for the GK Codex and minis to show up before really getting to work; at least then you'll know what you have to work with and base your new Chapter off of. A possibility that occurs (without stepping heavily on the toes of existing canon) is:

 

A Chapter founded for the specific task of policing and guarding a major Warp rift, like the Maelstrom or the Hadex Anomaly. The Maelstrom is a good candidate for new guardians; the bitter lesson of the Badab War would definitely indicate the need for sentinels of extraordinary mental resilience in the region, and you have a ready-made mortal enemy in the Red Corsairs.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

they could be a successor, in order to deal with less dangerous warp entities that would other take up the grey knights valuable time, tbqh if they are able to beat the ultimate threat to hummanity i see no reason why more can't be enlisted if they do so very well.

[Hellios]

they could be a successor, in order to deal with less dangerous warp entities that would other take up the grey knights valuable time, tbqh if they are able to beat the ultimate threat to hummanity i see no reason why more can't be enlisted if they do so very well.

 

The Grey Knights do not have the 1,000 marine limit (I think?) so just make more Grey Knights. Their is also the inqusitorial projecto fhte Exorcists (Have I got the right chapter?) who are said to perform better against daemons than normal marines and in test actions got a K/D ratio of 97/1 (again I think)... I can never remember where I read things.

 

Do they have to be a successor? I mean if they were set up by some mad man or have been tainted by some wierd artifact (Like a Warpstone fortress) then they could be a chapter of marines who have been told to recruit psykers or suddenly became psykers because of the warpstone... How they got all the equipment might be hard to explain (as it very rare) but again if someone who was one of the High Lords of Terra was involved I'm sure they could get something sorted... the anti-daemons rules might not make as much sense but sometimes that happens when you count as... Oh and it is possible that GW will add successors or battle groups where people where the personal heraldry of the captain to 'allow' people to do whatever colours people want.

[Generating Random Name...]

O.K. having done a bit of brainstorming i've come up with some (Possible) ideas:

1. Do not directly say they are Grey Knights successors (Mainly to avoid Nerdrage).

2. High Psyker population on homeworld (So high ammount in Chapter) (Possibly no set librarians?).

3. Organisation similar to GK.

4. High comcentration on Purity, pious, more blessings, more chaplains.

5. Fleet based, have modified ships slightly (More Armour etc.).

6. Harder recruitment tests.

 

Dunno if this helps, or if you've already thought of it but hopefully it's better than "This is a bad idea"

 

GNR

[NurseNinja]

I was also thinking that they might place alot of importance on heritage. IIRC: each marine grows a pair of gene seeds, which are then implanted into two new marines, each marine might in this chapter know who his father was and his deeds, and also perhaps know his 'brother' the other gene seed recipient.... possibly even be trained apprentice style by their gene seed doner? can a marine survive with gene seeds removed?

 

I am brother Thorin, begotten of Durin, begotten of Hogrin.... ...begotten of Zoolin founding father of the chapter

 

 

honestly I would be happy if my chapter were nothing to do with the grey knights, but it seems that would be less likely than some failed experiment that they dont like to talk about, locked in stasis and guarded by dreadnoughts.

[Generating Random Name...]

That's a cool idea! IIRC they have 2 progenoids implanted (The second last implant), then after 5 years 1 is removed, then after 10 the other is removed. They can also be removed if the marine dies in combat... More info here:

 

Linky

[The_son_of_Dorn]

well essentially a grey knight has to be a psyker, and an outstanding human being and survive the gene seed, (thats a tall order even with 800 trillion men to chose from in the imperium.

 

So successors dont have to be psykers but have the gene and have been conditioned to better withstand the effects of deamons

[NurseNinja]

So going from a perspecive where your ancestors / family are important to you (IE: you dare insult me? my gene-father died at the stand of antares, his died during the reign of the unking of grantz, i will not dishonour him by falling to the likes of you!) you could extrapolate a few other ideas:

 

Nobility / bloodline: Gene-son, the Caligulan lineage have been masters of the chapter for 3000 years, no son of mine is going to be an apothecary!

 

Families instead of companies: we are all Vas Normandy's here, you can trust us to your backs.

 

finaly: I know this is a hated question, can space marines impregnate women? is their any canon example? do they even have genitals anymore? if so you could further complicate it by: my father is also my gene-brother.... or if not then cloned candidates? : I am infact a clone of my own gene father.

[NurseNinja]

Hmmmm... dosent even matter, maybe the chapter exists in two parts, the part that is marine and the part that is not... marine candidates are drawn from the ranks of non-marine families.

 

put another way; the smith's boy, you know?, little jimmy with the pox scars?, well hes been selected to be inducted into the chapter, no more inquisitorial henchman'ing for him! I heard that that his grand-daddy, you know? apothecary Jerick Smith has been saving one of his own gene-seeds for one of his kids, waiting for one to make him proud! hes gonna train under his grand-daddy and the smith clan is finaly getting strong enough to wrest control of the company from those dreadful caligula's :Chapter Support worker, Chatty Kathy-smith.

[gil galed]

finaly: I know this is a hated question, can space marines impregnate women? is their any canon example? do they even have genitals anymore? if so you could further complicate it by: my father is also my gene-brother.... or if not then cloned candidates? : I am infact a clone of my own gene father.

 

No, it's noted in various places that the hormone treatments and various stuff they go through to become marines makes them sterile

 

~Gil :(

[Leonaides]

Hmmmm... dosent even matter, maybe the chapter exists in two parts, the part that is marine and the part that is not... marine candidates are drawn from the ranks of non-marine families.

 

put another way; the smith's boy, you know?, little jimmy with the pox scars?, well hes been selected to be inducted into the chapter, no more inquisitorial henchman'ing for him! I heard that that his grand-daddy, you know? apothecary Jerick Smith has been saving one of his own gene-seeds for one of his kids, waiting for one to make him proud! hes gonna train under his grand-daddy and the smith clan is finaly getting strong enough to wrest control of the company from those dreadful caligula's :Chapter Support worker, Chatty Kathy-smith.

All marine chapters have non-marine support staff, but given the chapter sers are probably mostly drawn from failed aspirants (who presumably failed the genetic tests) you're unlikely to get enough candidates from their children who would be compatible. And then, mere marines dont get to decide who gets their geneseed, nor do they get to put it aside until another from their family is recruited. The chapter is their family, tighter than a simple genetic bond.

[Ferrata]

I know this is a hated question, can space marines impregnate women? is their any canon example? do they even have genitals anymore? if so you could further complicate it by: my father is also my gene-brother.... or if not then cloned candidates? : I am infact a clone of my own gene father.

There is no fluff background that goes either way - GW's approach seems to be don't mention it, don't care. I haven't seen any examples of the sterile comments that gil mentions, although I wouldn't be suprised if this was the case with all the hormone treatment they go through. That being said, I doubt it is going to add much to the chapter if anything, it will probably detract from the chapter as readers focus in on that point. The whole gene-brother/father thing is a little confusing, although you could have the chapter be rather twisted. They could force that recruits have either sperm samples taken prior to the hormone treatment or are expected to have natural children before hand (even though they are really young). This way, the chapter only recruits from the sons of past recruits (maybe if your father fails, they kill you). This could lead to them having a small gene-pool they recruit from, both a good thing for certain traits but bad for overall health of the community. Certain diseases would be rife amongst them whilst certain attributes (such as muscles) may become naturally enlarged.

[Direach]

This is certainly not a canon source (not anymore at least), but back in the day I asked Bryan Ansell and Rick Priestley if Space Marines could still have sex and reproduce. Rick laughed and didn't really answer the question ("he said something like "I wouldn't think so"), while Bryan said "No, they don't have those bits anymore."

 

Since there has never been any mention of biological Astartes reproduction (and you gotta figure that if they could on Fenris, they would), I'd still go with no, Astartes cannot biologically reproduce, and have no psychological drive or compulsion whatsoever to do so.

 

Personally, I always figured that part of their psycho-conditioning was to reroute all thoughts of love, affection, lust, etc. into either devotion to the Emperor or a desire to destroy enemies. In effect, they get turned on by killing, and the reward is satisfaction and a feeling that they have earned the Emperor's love. Twisted, but it does mean the fortress-monastery remains free of dirty books and holo-porn.

[NurseNinja]

Right. Starting from scratch again with the lessons learned above.

 

An force of marines and men-at-arms, not a chapter per se, rather than codex scouts, initiates work in diverse units (henchmen squads) doing surgical strikes and specialist missions for the inquisition, some might live and fight their entire lives and not get any further than acolytes, each type of acolyte could be said to be a potential marine in certain phase of their training, a psyker (practicing holocaust) banisher (practicing using the aegis), etc.

 

Those few who survive may go on to become fully fledged marines. Ancestry is very important these marines, each marine knows the lineage of his gene seed and more often than not will be trained by their 'gene-father', his closest compatriot will more often than not be his 'gene-brother' (that is the person whose gene-father he shares)

 

Rather than companies or legions or regiments, the marines are arranged into familial clans of about 50 to 150 marines, the clan masters and grand clan master are akin to nobility.

 

.

...

.....

 

maybe.

 

 

 

For the colour scheme, rather than grey / metallic and red I think im either going for Bronze/brass/gold OR librarian colour scheme.

 

Im thinking now that it might make sense to have these guys based..... WAY WAAAAY out in the darkness, a long way from terror and the bulk of the imperium

[A_POINTED_STICK]

Exorcists are a canonical Successor (with training and possibly using Geneseed from tye GKs.) Red Hunters are close affiliates as is the Deathwatch chapter. They're all Inquisitorial Bedfellows. Blood Ravens with their scholarship had a close Inquisitorial affiliation also IIRC but unfortunatelu they might be rogue in the flimsy noncanon future of the setting (I think DoW is post 999M41 or whatever the "end year" is. If so then they're still good. Relictors were close to radical Ordo Malleus guys and despite their fetish were considered some of the most zealous and holywarriors in the Imperium with the GKs and BTs.

 

Basically Grey Knights as far as "Direct Count As" (by which I mean without elaborate counts as) are good for Grey Knights and maybe the Blood Raven first company. There are what? Roughly 3-8,000 Grey Knights (8 Grandmasters? And Supreme G.O.D. Draigo?) Each Grandmaster is a big deal and have their own heraldry. Red, Black, Gold, Gunmetal, Silver, Chrome, Bronze, White, etc would all be fair accent colors.

[Decoy]

This is certainly not a canon source (not anymore at least), but back in the day I asked Bryan Ansell and Rick Priestley if Space Marines could still have sex and reproduce. Rick laughed and didn't really answer the question ("he said something like "I wouldn't think so"), while Bryan said "No, they don't have those bits anymore."

 

Since there has never been any mention of biological Astartes reproduction (and you gotta figure that if they could on Fenris, they would), I'd still go with no, Astartes cannot biologically reproduce, and have no psychological drive or compulsion whatsoever to do so.

 

Personally, I always figured that part of their psycho-conditioning was to reroute all thoughts of love, affection, lust, etc. into either devotion to the Emperor or a desire to destroy enemies. In effect, they get turned on by killing, and the reward is satisfaction and a feeling that they have earned the Emperor's love. Twisted, but it does mean the fortress-monastery remains free of dirty books and holo-porn.

 

 

Not to bring this thread off topic again, but...

 

The Wolf dex does mention a lost Company, beyond the galactic rim, who encounter a planet of humanish folk. One Wolf makes a "pass" (we can only assume sexual), meaning that failing all else, the desire is there. Since there is no mention of it, and the only source from fluff that I've seen (5th Ed Wolf Dex) allows for sexual attraction, I'd figure that Marines do have those impulses and urges, possibly indicating that they are not sterile. Failing all else, at least Wolves can "get it up", not to sound horrendously vulgar.

[d503]

Space wolves.

 

Do it doggy style.

[Valkyrion]

You could always have them as a 'normal' successor (UM, IF etc) that is under inquisitorial investigation - e.g the chapter undergoes spontaneous psychic activity because (the warp did it) and whilst they aren't inherently dangerous an inquisitor has been assigned to investigate, evaluate and either destroy or sanction.

 

The Inquisitor then sanctions the chapter, declaring them safe, but 'recommends' semi-permanent Inquisitorial involvement and recommends that the chapter companies are halved in size and they are given extensive training, all as a 'just in case' measure.

 

That gives you your psychic marines, the inquisition, and the elite of the elite. I don't know how you'd squeeze in the new shinies the GK's will have, but I don't know about the fluff of the new stuff.