Stillgate Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Well, I still havent decided what army to pick so i decided to watch 2 players duel. I still havent purchased the 5th edition rulebook (still have 4th edition). It was Nids -vs- Plague Marines Question 1.) CSM player has Typhus surrounded by a Predator and a Rhino with a troop of Plague Marines/outside of transport. 2 Carnifaxs are close so he decides to back up all his Units. He moves all his units in reverse (still having LOS) on the Carinfaxs. Is that legal? Doesnt the Predator have to pivot 180 and move 6" back but loses LOS? Or does the Main Weapon (Lascannon) still pivot 360. Well if it can, atleast the rear of the vehicle is exposed, but having it just reverse, the enemy is always facing the front armor. What about the troops? Can they just back up while still facing forward? I'm assuming troops can run back /turn and shoot, but not vehicles. Now thinking about it, can Dreadnaughts move back and pivot their torso to get LOS? Question 2.) CSM player had a Vindicator also. Can the Demolisher Cannon shot over combat into another unit (A)? If it can, does that unit (A) get a cover save? (Well I'm also assuming there is no cover save from ordnance weapons. Question 3.) CSM Vindicator was in an alley, barely able to fit. Once the Nid's player Swarmlord got into assault range, he again back up (like in question 1) and fired the cannon. Once, he did a wound, the Swarmlord charge. Here is what I'll like to know. - Since there was barely any room to fit the Vindicator, can it still pivot 180? (I am assuming that i was right about Question 1 and the Tank must first turn away to move in a straight line.) making the rear of the vehicle exposed. But doesnt charging a vehicle always hits the rear regardless (even if the charge is on the front) in 5th edition? Last Question 4.) Is there a such thing as Indirect fire on the Defiler anymore? Or now can you only use True LOS? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223533-some-rule-questions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Last Question 4.) Is there a such thing as Indirect fire on the Defiler anymore? Or now can you only use True LOS? Ehh head hurts... Indirect fire still exists but it has been removed from the Defiler ;) so you can only shoot things you can see now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223533-some-rule-questions/#findComment-2672937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Question 1.) CSM player has Typhus surrounded by a Predator and a Rhino with a troop of Plague Marines/outside of transport. 2 Carnifaxs are close so he decides to back up all his Units. He moves all his units in reverse (still having LOS) on the Carinfaxs. Is that legal? Doesnt the Predator have to pivot 180 and move 6" back but loses LOS? Or does the Main Weapon (Lascannon) still pivot 360. Well if it can, atleast the rear of the vehicle is exposed, but having it just reverse, the enemy is always facing the front armor. What about the troops? Can they just back up while still facing forward? I'm assuming troops can run back /turn and shoot, but not vehicles. Now thinking about it, can Dreadnaughts move back and pivot their torso to get LOS? Vehicles are not strictly required to move forward, so you can assume that a tank or other vehicle can indeed move backwards, or in case of skimmers or walker perhaps even sideways. But then you are also allowed to pivot a vehicle as much as you like during its move, so if one preferred one could simply pivot the vehicle 180 degrees, move "forward" a bit, and then pivot back 180 degrees. All that matters is that the vehicle has a maximum distance it can be moved, and that it will have a final facing after its move phase, which will be used for shooting and disembarking purposes. Question 2.) CSM player had a Vindicator also. Can the Demolisher Cannon shot over combat into another unit (A)? If it can, does that unit (A) get a cover save? (Well I'm also assuming there is no cover save from ordnance weapons. If the target is covered by intervening models, but can still be drawn LOS to, then yes, they can be shot, and yes, they get a cover save. Units do get cover saves from Ordnance weapons. In case of direct shooting ordnance blasts, the cover is determined from the direction of the shot (i.e. cover between the Demolisher and the target). In case of "Ordnance Barrage" weapons (indirect firing ones) the cover is determines from the centre of the blast marker. I.e. if the marker lands on the other side of a wall, the unit behind the wall gets a cover save. if the marker lands behind the wall and behind the unit, they will not get a cover save. The cover has to be between the unit and the hole in the marker in case of barrages. In case of direct firing ordnance, even if the marker landed behind the wall, the unit would still get the cover save if the wall was between the firing vehicle and the unit. Units inside area terrain will allways get a cover save against ordnance and barrages, as their cover does not come from one single object between them and the firer or between them and the centre of the blast, but from them being inside that area. You assume they will find some cover as long as tehy are inside that terrain. Question 3.) CSM Vindicator was in an alley, barely able to fit. Once the Nid's player Swarmlord got into assault range, he again back up (like in question 1) and fired the cannon. Once, he did a wound, the Swarmlord charge. Here is what I'll like to know. - Since there was barely any room to fit the Vindicator, can it still pivot 180? (I am assuming that i was right about Question 1 and the Tank must first turn away to move in a straight line.) making the rear of the vehicle exposed. But doesnt charging a vehicle always hits the rear regardless (even if the charge is on the front) in 5th edition? If the vehicle cannot physically be put somewhere, then it cannot be put there. Unless we were talking "area terrain", which is more of an abstract concept. Vehicles can move through rough terrain like ruins or forrests but treat it as dangerous terrain. Or you could agree with the opposing player that certain terrain features are impassable. If there was an "alley", then it sounds reasonable to assume that the side walls were impassable for the vehicle. In that case I would say the vehicle would not be able to turn, if it was not physically able to do so. But strictly speaking a vehicle is not required to allways move forward, so a tank moving backwards should be ok. Most vehicles have some kind of reverse gear anyways. Last Question 4.) Is there a such thing as Indirect fire on the Defiler anymore? Or now can you only use True LOS? Defilers currently cannot fire indirect barrages. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223533-some-rule-questions/#findComment-2672945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stillgate Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 Thanks.. sorry for the long essays.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223533-some-rule-questions/#findComment-2673185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 No apologies required. That's what the OR's here for, answering questions no matter their length :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223533-some-rule-questions/#findComment-2674406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 you cannot move a vehicle through your own guys, unless it is a skimmer, and you cannot move through enemies unless you are tank shocking (dont have my rule book so cant give a page number). Some vehicles have turrets, and so can turn these to shoot 360 degrees, or sometimes even less. Line of sight is traced from the weapon. all shooting attacks allow cover saves, unless they specify it (like flamer template weapons etc). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223533-some-rule-questions/#findComment-2674529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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