Playtesting the "new rules"

[Valek]

What about this for testing:

 

1 Grand Master Vort Mordrack

9 Phantom Grey Knights, NHb, Psybolt Ammo

 

5 Grey Knight Terminators

5 Grey Knight Terminators

 

1 Stormraven, Twin MM, Twin Asscan

1 Stormraven, Twin MM, Twin Asscan

 

1 Nemesis DreadKnight, Heavy Psycannnon

 

 

Idea would be to teleport first turn near transport with Mordrack, go flatout with both ravens and shoot that transport witn POTMS and then torrent with the Termie sqaud

 

Nemesis Dreadknight would port in with help of mordrack his communion, effectively getting your full army in hth, shooting postion in turn 2

[jakehunter52]

Thanks for the report Dilgar, it's helping me find out what I want to build next month (gosh, is it already hear?). It was quite enlightening to hear how your paladins fared. I do believe Nob Bikers have a definite edge on us w/ that T5 in some regards. But I think I was going to go the purifier route anyway, CC seems to be calling to me and I would hate to see a Pally fall to a PF. And very much yes on the Dreadknight, I think I will take a pair of them myself. Something I did notice was how you only gave teleporters to half the squad. I looked it up and it is one of those "you can buy xxx at xxxpts for the whole squad" sort of deals so I think that option is out. But I think I will utilize the combat squads option and dedicate a squad to holding objectives/laying down supporting fire while the rest of the army becomes a agile strike force. Good luck on your future testing!

[HERO]

What about this for testing:

 

1 Grand Master Vort Mordrack

9 Phantom Grey Knights, NHb, Psybolt Ammo

 

5 Grey Knight Terminators

5 Grey Knight Terminators

 

1 Stormraven, Twin MM, Twin Asscan

1 Stormraven, Twin MM, Twin Asscan

 

1 Nemesis DreadKnight, Heavy Psycannnon

 

 

Idea would be to teleport first turn near transport with Mordrack, go flatout with both ravens and shoot that transport witn POTMS and then torrent with the Termie sqaud

 

Nemesis Dreadknight would port in with help of mordrack his communion, effectively getting your full army in hth, shooting postion in turn 2

 

Terrible.

 

People need to stop building their lists with so little models.

 

Our troops:

2x Psycannons, all Force Weapons, can take Rhinos, costs ~the same as a fully equipped Tac squad.

Or take Purifiers, better attacks, cheaper Halberds, Cleansing Flame, 4x Psycannons, can take Rhinos.

 

NOT, 5x Terminators in a AV12 flying tin can POS. That's just failure.

Mordak, on the other hand, is good. A full squad of Termies always, deployed near cover + pressure area/flank with Psycannons.

 

If you have to choose between a good side armor shot and deploying in cover, deploy in cover because you have stealth and 3++ cover saves.

[monkeyking]

What about this for testing:

 

1 Grand Master Vort Mordrack

9 Phantom Grey Knights, NHb, Psybolt Ammo

 

5 Grey Knight Terminators

5 Grey Knight Terminators

 

1 Stormraven, Twin MM, Twin Asscan

1 Stormraven, Twin MM, Twin Asscan

 

1 Nemesis DreadKnight, Heavy Psycannnon

 

 

Idea would be to teleport first turn near transport with Mordrack, go flatout with both ravens and shoot that transport with POTMS and then torrent with the Termie sqaud

 

Nemesis Dreadknight would port in with help of mordrack his communion, effectively getting your full army in hth, shooting postion in turn 2

 

Terrible.

 

People need to stop building their lists with so little models.

 

Our troops:

2x Psycannons, all Force Weapons, can take Rhinos, costs ~the same as a fully equipped Tac squad.

Or take Purifiers, better attacks, cheaper Halberds, Cleansing Flame, 4x Psycannons, can take Rhinos.

 

NOT, 5x Terminators in a AV12 flying tin can POS. That's just failure.

Mordak, on the other hand, is good. A full squad of Termies always, deployed near cover + pressure area/flank with Psycannons.

 

If you have to choose between a good side armor shot and deploying in cover, deploy in cover because you have stealth and 3++ cover saves.

 

Actually, Stormravens with a GK librarian, with shroud, riding along look like a win unit. Moving 24" a round to get the 4+ cover save, bumped up a notch to 3+ by The Shroud, taking a pot shot with TL-Lascannon or MM (thank you PotMS) each round, til your opponents armor has been whittled down a bit, then move in to drop off your passengers to wreak havoc on a weakened foe. Hell, the round it stops moving simply means that its going to dump all its missiles on some poor target and then use PotMS to fire on a different vehicle, preferably with the TL-MM.

 

At 2000 pts, looks like this for me.

 

GK Libby

Might of Titan, Quicksilver, The Shroud, Sanctuary

 

3xSR

TL-Las, TL-MM, 4xMissiles

 

3x Dreads

 

5x GKT, 1xPsyC

 

10 x GKSS, 2xPsiC, teleporters

 

10 x Purifiers, 4x PsyC

 

and I have some points left over to play with :(. I might drop an SR and Dread, and pick up a DK and maybe another squad of GKT or GKSS. I Have to see how it'll play first.

 

I see why people like Mordrak, cheap termies are awesome, but you're blowing a lot of points on a non scoring unit, which you then have to make scoring with Mordraks Grand strategy, which seems a bit self-defeating.

 

Getting rhinos and razorbacks is also nice, but they're still a bit to ponderous, and given the current meta, way too easy to breach. Massed GKSS with personal teleporters, armed with Psycannons looks like a better option for us then dedicated transport spam. In fact, 6 groups of 10xPT-GKSS with 2xPsicannon looks real interesting since its highly mobile with a good clip of firepower, which can move up the board quickly, have an easier time getting cover, and then have a good chance to make a last minute objective grab by using their 30" hop late in the game.

[grimz]

Since I like troops I'll probably try to do something like this:

 

HQ:

Grand Master

 

Elites:

5 Purifers

 

Troops:

10 x GKSS - 2 Psycannons - Rhino

10 x GKSS - 2 Psycannons - Rhino

10 x GKSS - 2 Psycannons - Rhino

 

Heavy Support:

Redeemer (Purifers ride in here)

2 x Dreadknight

 

 

Might consider switching the Purifers for Death Cult assassins since they *should* butcher marines

[RedemptionNL]

Might consider switching the Purifers for Death Cult assassins since they *should* butcher marines

 

You'll have to add an Inquisitor to unlock those though.

[Gentlemanloser]

Terrible.

 

People need to stop building their lists with so little models.

 

Why?

 

I've been tabling opponents with a 2 SR, 2 Dread, 15 Sanguinary Guard (With Dante and 3 Priests) army since the Bangle dex came out.

 

which you then have to make scoring with Mordraks Grand strategy, which seems a bit self-defeating.

 

You can't use Grand Strategy on the Ghost Knights. :P

[Valek]

Ok, went the other way with the list, and the deadcults are indeed quite powerfull, so I went on making a list without special characters

 

So 1500 pts:

 

1 Inquisitor, Artificer Armour, Powerweapon

6 Deathcult Assassin

1 Mystic

1 Landraider Crusader, MM

 

1 Vindicair/Callidus/Eversor/Cullexus

 

10 Gk Strike Squad, 2 Psycannons

Razorback, Las-Twinplas

 

10 Gk Strike Squad, 2 Psycannons

Razorback, Las-Twinplas

 

1 DreadKnight, Heavy Psycannon

1 DreadKnight, Heavy Psycannon

 

The idea here is to always combatsquad, and put the shooters in one on the backline for some nice pscyannon action.

Dreadknights advance while putting suppressing fire.

Landraider advances and butchers whatever it sees when coming out of the Raider, and they aint expensive either sowhatever if it gets shot...

 

Assassin: there i still dunno what to take, based on the rules we see now, Vindicair and Callidus are good.

 

Valek

[grimz]

@Valek - I really like the Vindicaire, but I'm just not sure he's worth it in the end...

[Inache]

I think the Vindicare will prove his worth on the table many times over if you've got the left over points. I wouldn't build an army around him, but I'm more inclined to throw him into any force I make to tie up some loose points now that you don't have to take an =][= to unlock him.

[bl00d bath76]

I would use a vindicator if you want to get rid of those pecky hoods that will be VERY anoying against grey knights.

[lordsloth]

Most test lists I make I tend to end up with a bunch of purifiers and a librarian in a raider or stormraven at some point. It just seems like such a fun but fragile deathstar. Theyre only dudes in power armour but with a might/quick libby and a healthy dose of falchions they can kill just about anything as long as the right powers go off at the right time (which can be a big if against certain armies, but hey, excitement!). I'm not 100% convinced theyre actually a good choice (because of their dependance on psychic powers to stay alive) but I just like em anyway.

 

I also like psycannon bolts going by the current rumour that they make for str 5 stormbolters. They make for quite shooty strikesquads (though admittedly also quite pricey once you add in psycannons and some kind of transportation). I feel like this is a solid troop choice that will hopefully not turn out to be too expensive for what they bring to the table.

 

Dreadknights for me are gonna depend mostly on what the stats for the heavy versions of the weapons are going to be.

 

My current rumour list at 1500ish points stands at:

Libby with might and quicksilver

10 purifiers (9 falchions, 1 incinerator)

10 GKSS psybolts, 2 psycannons, rhino

10 GKSS psybolts, 2 psycannons, rhino

10 GKSS psybolts, 2 psycannons, rhino

Stormraven (MM, PCannon)

[Brovius]

I'm really starting to see the utility of the humble GKSS.

Combat-squad a full 10-man unit, and give them all personal teleporters and a few Psycannons. Use the combat squad with the Justicar and 4GKSS to harrass the enemy's lines, and if the enemy gets too close to the shooty combat squad, you can let them flee 30" away from the enemy, or even reposition them to better lay down covering fire for the rest of the army, as they can shoot after shunting.

 

Between this, and Purifiers, I'll find it quite hard to justify Purgation squads <_<

[Gentlemanloser]

I really want to like Purgation Squads.

 

But every time I look at them, I always convince myself that taking a Purifer squad to 10 man with 4 Psycannons, and combat Squadding them is the much better choice.

 

Stick 5 in a Razorback and head off to Cleasning Flame something in CC, while 4 Psycannons remian at range.

[Brom MKIV]

Greetings brothers. I am mainly a deathwing player as I havent played GKs since 3rd edition (or was it 4th?). Idk anyway ive been playing around with the new rules too and wanted to say hello.

I predict gkss with S5 stormbolters are going to become hated real quick as their SBs increase damage output by almost 1/3 against meq and can even take down light armour.

Ive also noticed that gkss on the charge inflict similar casualties on meq to a furious charging BAs ras squad. this is huge. These two reasons alone makes personal teleporters more desirable than rhinos for me.

I think light armour has its place in GKs but rhinos go better with small purifier squads who dont mind being charged as much and can forgo S5 stormbolters to shoot their psycannons out the top of fortituded transports.

Also I know that many people are stoked about some of the flashier characters like mordrak and the libby but I think the humble 'nilla inquisitor will have his day, if only to leave more points for warm bodies and better toys, although crowe may become mandatory to free up elite slots. We'll see.

Personally I plan on running both a vindicare and a callidus assassin. These two guys are amazingly fun and have serious potential for disruption. Runepriest causing problems? One turbo penetrator later hes dead. Also has anyone else had the callidus appear and cause a unit to fall back and be escorted right off the board? Sick.

Anyway heres to hoping we get some info soon on the wargear section <_<. L8

[lordsloth]

According to the rumourmill there's a decent chance that the teleporter strike squads will no longer be troops but fast attack. (Something which I expect will turn out to be true, though I obviously have no evidence).

 

To me that makes footslog or rhino more desirable than the teleporters.

 

We'll just have to see how it turns out

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Playing against your glorious Knights, I have a few pieces of advice that I found to be exploitable weaknesses:

-Small Model Count:

Once I knock you out of your transports, of which you will have few, I can easily wipe out your army, and if you use lots of small units in transports, TWC easily annihilate any of your units, even a tooled up Purifiers squad, and that was after suffering two wounds from one Psycannon, whom I shall hate eternally, though as that was the only time they were wounded, I think he simply made them angry.

 

-Lack of Range:

Even standing still with a Psycannon, your only real source of ranged weaponry comes from Razorbacks and Stormraven. Because of this, I can hang back in my deployment zone and blast you with Wall o' Razor and Long Fang Doom. Which is a major problem, considering your small model count.

 

-Callidus:

This is pretty much a one-shot midget hobo riding an under-sized mule donkey. Apologies for the analogy. Once you get in, you can maybe blast a snooty squad or something with AP 2 killyness, then get shot to pieces, or killed by a Death Star counterattack unit :cough: TWC :cough: waiting for something to do.

 

That's all, folks, expect more once I play more and remember more.

[Brom MKIV]

Playing against your glorious Knights, I have a few pieces of advice that I found to be exploitable weaknesses:

-Small Model Count:

Once I knock you out of your transports, of which you will have few, I can easily wipe out your army, and if you use lots of small units in transports, TWC easily annihilate any of your units, even a tooled up Purifiers squad, and that was after suffering two wounds from one Psycannon, whom I shall hate eternally, though as that was the only time they were wounded, I think he simply made them angry.

 

-Lack of Range:

Even standing still with a Psycannon, your only real source of ranged weaponry comes from Razorbacks and Stormraven. Because of this, I can hang back in my deployment zone and blast you with Wall o' Razor and Long Fang Doom™. Which is a major problem, considering your small model count.

 

-Callidus:

This is pretty much a one-shot midget hobo riding an under-sized mule donkey. Apologies for the analogy. Once you get in, you can maybe blast a snooty squad or something with AP 2 killyness, then get shot to pieces, or killed by a Death Star counterattack unit :cough: TWC :cough: waiting for something to do.

 

That's all, folks, expect more once I play more and remember more.

 

Lols..Seriously dude you and your hairy "mule donkey' cavalry need to quit smoking crack together :cough: cough:

[hmk17]

Thunder Wolf spam, yay!

Razorback spam, yay!

Long Fangs everywhere, yay!.

nyah nyah nyah! Take that new codex! I the bestest ever!

 

Translated that for you. :)

 

Grey Knights are not going to be an invincible 20 model army. No duh. Seriously, slapping yourself on the back for beating a 6 month old play- test 'dex leaked on the net, that it is mostly incomplete... yeah huge win there. Especially when you are bragging about spam lists.

 

 

Long Range - Incorrect. Please actually read up before making ignorant claims. We have more and better long range. We have Land Raiders, Dreadnoughts, Razorbacks, Storm Ravens, and a rumored Orbital Strike. 2 psycannons in a Rhino is 6 S7 Rending shots at 36". Also, we can have 20+ orange monkeys that have lascannon/multi-melta/heavy flamers, which can potentially rend. Even then, its mainly a matter of who goes first.

 

small model count - army thrives on things other than transports. Also depends on the kit. 20 paladins are quite different than 20 standard PAGK all kitted up. And those are even more different that 20+ Jokaero. Its really about what they do rather than how many are there initially. Late game, it will definitely matter though. Truthfully this is the great issue armies from this codex will have to deal with.

 

Callidus - If I ever see any player take an entire unit of TWC to kill a Callidus, I will laugh at them to their face. Callidus's current rumor is designed for popping up behind entrenched guys and tearing them up. That 5 man unit on a objective is not safe, that squad of Long Fangs hiding in your deployment zone is not safe, that unit who just hopped out of their wrecked rhino is not safe. Truthfully, Callidus is our squad thinner on armies like IG, not really what I would take in an environment of TWC spam. For 145 points it is a decent deal for what it can do. I think the HH Assassin book inspired Ward, as the Callidus and Eversor work well together. Vindicare is still the man, though.

 

 

Do yourself a favor and don't swagger in here trying to trash talk an unreleased codex. We are capable of addressing theory and practice without pointless repetitive posts like yours. Thank you.

[lordsloth]

TWC beat purifiers?

I wouldnt be too sure about that. In a sealed environment where there are only those two units, yes, the purifiers stand to take a beating.

In an actual game of 40k where other factors come into play, not so much. For example, if theres a librarian nearby with the right powers (and seriously, who wouldnt take quicksilver), the tooled-up purifiers stand a very good chance of utterly destroying thunderwolves.

[Dilgar]

IF the GKSS with teleporters are slipping to the fast attack slot (which I do not hope they would), then this might "force" me at least to buy some Rhinos/Razors...which IMO would give the GK´s a way to much Space Marine feel :lol:

 

It seems that alot of other people here don´t see the need for transporters either, if the teleport "rules" would stay the same this would truly give the C:GK a unique feel, I mean you can still go the SM way except you don´t have scouts, drop pods and Landspeeders. The teleports are just such a cool addition, but they still cost ALOT so I really don´t see the problem in keeping teleporting units troops.

[lordsloth]

IF the GKSS with teleporters are slipping to the fast attack slot (which I do not hope they would), then this might "force" me at least to buy some Rhinos/Razors...which IMO would give the GK´s a way to much Space Marine feel :huh:

 

Remember the good old days? When many a daemonhunter player lamented the fact that one of the mightiest organisations in the Imperium couldnt requisition rhinos for their shining knights?

Yeah, we've come full circle ;)

[Justcar]

Playing against your glorious Knights, I have a few pieces of advice that I found to be exploitable weaknesses:

-Small Model Count:

Once I knock you out of your transports, of which you will have few, I can easily wipe out your army, and if you use lots of small units in transports, TWC easily annihilate any of your units, even a tooled up Purifiers squad, and that was after suffering two wounds from one Psycannon, whom I shall hate eternally, though as that was the only time they were wounded, I think he simply made them angry.

 

-Lack of Range:

Even standing still with a Psycannon, your only real source of ranged weaponry comes from Razorbacks and Stormraven. Because of this, I can hang back in my deployment zone and blast you with Wall o' Razor and Long Fang Doom. Which is a major problem, considering your small model count.

 

-Callidus:

This is pretty much a one-shot midget hobo riding an under-sized mule donkey. Apologies for the analogy. Once you get in, you can maybe blast a snooty squad or something with AP 2 killyness, then get shot to pieces, or killed by a Death Star counterattack unit :cough: TWC :cough: waiting for something to do.

That's all, folks, expect more once I play more and remember more.

 

Small model count will always be a problem for this army. That is why it will be a difficult army to play

 

Long range isn't actually needed! With a GM you can have your entire army assault on turn 1. you'll never get the chance to shoot. Of course we also have a large amount of Long Range firepower at our disposal (explained in other posts) including multiple orbital strikes!

 

GKSS are going to be incredibly mobile, you won't be able to out maneuver them.

 

Assassins are great! They are meant to die the second turn they come in (most of them)!

I would take a vindicare though and snipe your rune priests to death!!

 

Don't try to say that your list is better when you clearly have no idea about all of the horrible tricks the GKs have in store for you!

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Hmk17:

Long Range:

See, the problem with those things is that many other armies, even 4th ed. ones, have many of the same things, excluding the Stormraven. While many DA and BT players won't take Razorbacks(70 points for a Rhino with a gun on top? I think not), they still have Devastator Squads. Those can take many longer ranged weapons, meaning that your psycanons are 12" shorter than the maximum range. Also, your Jokaero Weaponsmiths are quite weak when shot at, and will easily fall to even bolter or frag missile fire with a toughness of 3 and a 5+ invulnerable save, especially when deployed in horde units. This is not to say that they are weak. I actually think they would be better than obliterators, with a cost of 35 compared to the obliterator's 75., meaning you can take about two for every one, hide them in some sort of cover, and blast away. Your Land Raiders suffer from the same problem every other codex has: They are overpriced transports. You can't fit many in an army, and they lack the weaponry to compete with Russes, and will easily fall to meltaguns. Unfortunately, GW seems to have still not noticed this. Once you get into close range, the Psycannons are absolutely devastating, much better than any assault cannon. and after shooting, you can assault and kill almost anything in any army with power weapons on every model and the ability to use the Force Weapon instant death rules.

 

Small Model Count:

I have a tendency to play horde marines, taking maximum sized units as often as possible, so this may or may not be good advice. I think the best thing possible would be to use the Deep Striking so common to your units to get in close. While you can't assault for a turn, this does mean you will still be shot at for a smaller number of turns, and can use Psycannons to the best effect. Also, the Jokaero will probably be able to do a lot of damage while your squads are in reserve, especially with the cheap but deadly Lascannons. Ouch.

 

Assassin:

I agree, the Vindicare is much preferable, and has been the bane of any army I play, even in the old dex. For a suicide unit, I just don't think the Callidus is capable of earning back the 145 points you spend on her. Sure, you'll probably cause a good amount of damage, but not to a large number of models. Plus, she costs you a Kill Point after that, though this won't affect you in 2/3 of the missions.

 

Lordsloth:

Unfortunately, the librarian, awesome though he is, can't be everywhere, and suffers from the same lack of a statline like every other librarian, though he does come with terminator armor. Since I was most often playing against a Crowe army, there were a lot of Purifiers, so the one librarian just wasn't able to be in the right place at the right time, partly due to my lucky roll when busting the Stormraven he was in.

 

Justcar:

Your mobile strike squads may or may not be sent to fast attack. We are unfortunately clueless. Also, I am not saying that my list is better. I am saying that these are the only weaknesses I have found from playing them. Overall, this is a very powerful codex, capable of eating up pretty much anything in assault. I expect this to change up the metagame quite a bit, much more so than Dark Eldar. My apologies if you feel that I have insulted you.

[BertyBottyBiter]

I'm surprised that TWC would beat a Callidus so easily close combat to be honest. Unless the TWC are rocking more than one storm shield. She strikes first and all of her wounds cause instant death. Okay she's wounding on 5s, but she is still going to put some hurt on the Cavalry before she goes down.

 

Remember that a fully equipped TWC unit is over 250 points. Add on an additional 200 for the Lord, and that is complete overkill for a 145 point model. As it stands, the Callidus is bloody awesome in my opinion, and with clever usage, and proper support, she is going to be a menace.