Manning Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Is there really any reason to fill your Heavy slots with anything other than Oblits when selecting a force for tournament play? I am having trouble justifying other choices... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Is there really any reason to fill your Heavy slots with anything other than Oblits when selecting a force for tournament play? I am having trouble justifying other choices... Nope generally oblits are pretty good and can deal with anything... So unless you have a really expensive unit that needs to make it into combat and so you need a land raider... but that unit I would guess isn't the best unit for a tourny as it cost to much... Defilers because you like crab tanks... Vindicators because you like S10 pie plates! So oblits are pretty good yer? Ever hear people whine about the chaos codex being rubbish? It isn't because it can't win games (although it could be better) but because all the best options are obvious... daemon prince with wings (MoN/MoT + warptime?)... plague marines and Berzerkers... and yay oblits... oh and stick the troops in rhinos... That isn't saying every other unit is rubbish but those units stand out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Too expensive for too little in my opinion. Either go big with them or not at all, as the onsie twosies are just ineffective for the points. Havocs serve my purposes better, as I get tons more wounds and guns (and icons). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Overlord Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Unless you are tryng to saturate the enemy with vehicle targets, oblits are the way to go. I'm going to a 1750 tourney in April, and my list will most likely include at least 4, possibly 6 obliterators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shas'o R'Vre Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Is there really any reason to fill your Heavy slots with anything other than Oblits when selecting a force for tournament play? I am having trouble justifying other choices... Other than Land Raiders for Berzerker-Spam, then not really. Predators are sub-par, they are expensive and lame compared to loyalist options, Vindicators are ok, but are somewhat of a soft target for any smart opponent, and Defilers suffer from being such large models. As for the Havocs vs Oblits arguement, if you want anti-light armour/light infantry, 4x Havocs with Autocannons comes out on top. For anything else, it's Oblits all the way for me. Unsurprising really for an Iron Warrors Player, though I wouldn't say no to some looted imperial kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 only reason i wouldnt is cause i hates the models...and am building slowly...only made2 from scratchwith the termy kit sofar.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertboxer Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 only reason i wouldnt is cause i hates the models...and am building slowly...only made2 from scratchwith the termy kit sofar.. agreed, the models do suck which is why i converted mine from the techpriest enginseer models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 It all depends on the list but, for the most common two Chaos tournament builds - Oblits are the only thing worth taking. As for the ugly models, just convert your own. :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I don't mind the models as a whole; it's the heads I despise. I just replace them with random CSM heads, throw some green stuff around them to add that stretched flesh look to fill in the hole, and they turn out okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alys Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I have six now (well seven, one's missing an arm), not because I want to, but because I know that if I want to win some games eventually, I'll need them. Saying that tho, 4 (5) of them are the original obliterators. I love them, much more than the "Gooey-Hulkinator Smash!" ones. I do like the idea of taking extra vehicles, as they add more cover. A Predator Annihilator can sit on an objective with troops behind it, taking shots at armour or tough units, and as soon as something gets into rapid fire range, it drives out of the way (maybe tank-shocking the approaching unit) and then dakka mania. However, as everyone says, our tanks seem to be more expensive, so we lose so much more to the inevitable meltas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan The Deamon Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I'm going o be the classic guy who says "oblits? nay!" and preach my success with autocannon havocs and two predators(one dakka, one las,AC). I love them. The autocannon teams pour out enough fire where obscured targets have no hope of making saves and the preds either saturate enemy squads with saves or high strength AT fire. I personally got tired of pushing the "i win" button during list building. Oblits look awful, their fluff really never sat well with me, and i hate their game play. I would spam the X4 autocannon havocs if i didn't feel bad about it. They rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 they rule till you end up playing IG or a sm LR rush army and suddenly 2/3 of your long range anti tank , in fact your only anti tank too, because unlike loyalists we dont have support in FA/elite , does not work at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 they rule till you end up playing IG or a sm LR rush army and suddenly 2/3 of your long range anti tank , in fact your only anti tank too, because unlike loyalists we dont have support in FA/elite , does not work at all. always lemons for breakfast when it comes to chaos, jeske ;D actually, deepstrike them - into icon range of your PMs. it's the one thing that chaos does so much better than everyone else (only DOA BA come close): teleport homers for 5pts with all slots exept troops capable of DS + melta. we are the ones from the warp after all. against IG, melta the vehicles, flame and assault the infantry. do noth bother with long range when the other side has the heavier guns! elite slots like 3melta/2 flamer-chosen in a rhino or combimelta-termicide do work well (come out of reserve, melta a tank, assault the crew, repeat). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 actually, deepstrike them - into icon range of your PMs then you have to play 2k minimum . because with preds and havocks costing more then oblits you wouldnt fit termicid squads in to a normal sized list , because we cant fit termicid in to our list when we use oblits . Maybe if you play minimal troops and one HQ , but that again is gimping your own list . + I have problems with seeing how a rhino with pms gets behind the chimera wall and within the needed 9" for the termicid [and the termicid actualy not droping too soon or too late , because again to be sure to see one squads you would have to run 3 ]. against IG, melta the vehicles, flame and assault the infantry. but you wont be in melta range turn 1 and even with smokes a IG build can blow up enough rhinos for you to not be in range to use melta termicid turn 2 [if it actualy does drop on time] . + deep strike is hardly a good counter against IG as they always run mystics so the terminators will eat plasma/melta or what ever is best or closest. even before IG turn . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 tzeentch DP + wings, warptime, wind 2x3 termis + combi 2x7 pm + 2x plasma or melter, icon, champ+fist/combi, rhino+xa, dozer 3x2 oblits -->1,85k pts at this level, I normally encounter 5 chimaeras with vets/hq, 3 more tanks, maybe autocannon sentinels. I start with 2 rhinos in cover, step on the gas, pop smoke, position pms in cover/assault near objectives, kill all opposition, do not get caught in the open. works for me. it's 6 dice for reserves, even on a 5+ two should show up in time, and I have yet to see something destroy those troop choices before turn 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 always lemons for breakfast when it comes to chaos, jeske ;D actually, deepstrike them - :lol: I don't understand the DS oblits that at all tho. 2 oblits DS w 2 multimaltas = 150 pts. 3 termi's DS w 3 meltas = 105 pts Keep oblits at range where they are safe from rapidfire, meltas and hth, and let them fire their LC's and PC's from turn 1. Back to OT: the only reason I could really see in tourny play is a raider rush army. Preds are alright, but s/m's pay so much less for them that you're handicapping yourself by taking them in a tourny. AC havocs are good, but are really only useful against light - med AV vehicles, oblits are more versitle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Keep oblits at range where they are safe from rapidfire, meltas and hth, and let them fire their LC's and PC's from turn 1. termicide only has 1 shot. the oblits get more effective when in close range, too. TL melta > LC, HF > PC against GEQ, depending on position, TL PG >= PC. they also have PFs. what of their weaponry is left at 48"? I'd only leave them back in cover when playing against tyranids. against almost everything else, target saturation and PM meat shields keep them fairly safe. people also tend to not use (round) templates against models <6" away from their guys, and oblits are fairly immune to (tear-shaped) templates. again, I can't stress enough that chaos is able to position their deep striking units EXACTLY where they want them by utilizing icons. demons may even attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 So you decide to deepstrike your Oblits...now you play with 450 points less on the board and with most likely close to zero Long Range AT in the first turn. Result: The rest of your force gets punished for 1 or 2 (when you go 2nd) turns before your Oblits show up > That's a death setence against a lot of serious lists really. Your 4 Rhinos most likely won't get anywhere near your oppenent now. Really, it's simply not viable; you need the Long Range AT from the Oblits in the first turns to 'silence' some things from firing so the rest of your army has better odds of getting somewhere (the Oblits themselves might actually get targeted now). Whoever disagrees, please provide us with a battlereport in which the Chaos player deepstrikes all of his Oblits while he plays against a good IG/Tau/Wolves/Marine army. Really it sounds nice and well in theory, all these stories about "deepstrike near icons and open up transports", but that's what it is: theory. Theory which does not work in competative environments. I'm sure people have fun with and it might work sometimes, but suggesting it as being really viable is nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 termicide only has 1 shot.Two if they survive the first round and you are smart. :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 The rest of your force gets punished for 1 or 2 (when you go 2nd) turns before your Oblits show up > Actually in a game I played reciently, I had a unit in reserve (I had but it in reserve, game rules) not roll in until turn 4 ! The game was rolled over on turn 5 ! So actually there is only a 50% chance that your oblits will even show up on turn 2 if you DS them, it could easily be turn 3 or even later with some bad rolls. I just can't see DS'ing oblits unless it was some very unusual circumstances (or maybe a planet strike game ??). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 well, if you roll badly, you roll badly - and then again, sometimes 5/6 roll 5+. but with enough deepstriking units, enough will usually show up early. the notion of what is theory and what is not I would leave aside - obviously, experiences and thus derived opinions differ. you don't need to stop enemy transports at long range if there is nothing for them to rush exept the place where you want them and you don't have to stop enemy shooty tanks if there are only vehicle targets in cover for them to shoot at. pms in rhinos in cover can take the heat - it's their job. so you're basically saying that you need the oblits on the board to stop units from shooting at the oblits on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 well, if you roll badly, you roll badly Sure, but most list don't totally collapse if that happens, this one does. That's a sign of a bad list. so you're basically saying that you need the oblits on the board to stop units from shooting at the oblits on the board. What? No. Read again. Well alright, that sentense isn't really good English I guess :) What I mean is that you add other targets on the board yourself now too with the line 'the Oblits might get targeted now actually'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 every list collapses if you roll badly, exept those lists that collapse even if rolling good :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 every list collapses if you roll badly, exept those lists that collapse even if rolling good B) Let's just say that there are some lists that are deliberately padded against rolling badly, to an extent that all others roll badly at all times against it in comparison. :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 every list collapses if you roll badly, exept those lists that collapse even if rolling good ^_^ There is a huge difference between them though and I don't even believe you think otherwise... That's like saying Barcelona can lose football games too (which is true), but that still makes them better than some amateur club :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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