Juggernauts

[GreySeerZ]

Hi B&C,

 

Long time lurker. I have finally decided to paint my space marines and I need some help. I am horrible at making decisions at the best of times.

 

Anyway, after thinking long and hard I decided that 'Juggernauts' would be an interesting, different and unique name for a chapter. However, I have certain concerns that maybe you can answer:

 

1. How does the name sound? Is it too simple ("I can just imagine people screaming I'm the Juggernaut B*&%#, I want it to be an army I love, not make fun of"). I picked the name because of its definition as an indestructible force and also because its ties to India (juggernaut the term used by British explorers to describe giant Indian chariots, see fortress monastery below).

 

2. What color should I use? Of course I was going to go with bronze/orange and red shoulders; however this will just increase the chance of comic book laughter. But I was trying to think of earthy tones and primal strength (blood, earth, lava, etc.) If someone could suggest an alternative complementing color besides red that would be awesome.

 

3. My Fluff:

 

Briefly, the juggernauts is a chapter whose founding is unknown, however it is assumed to be several foundings after the heresy and major foundings, and to have been the result of an unknown order coming from deep within the Lords of Terra.

 

The chapter home world is located on the Northern fringes of the galaxy and mainly combats less common foes (daemons of chaos, Eldar and a renegade group of sisters of battle who have taken refuge in a nearby asteroid field). The planet is a desert planet with nomadic tribes from whom the chapter takes new recruits, following a series of tests. The fortress monastary is not stationary, but instead travels on giant treads across the desert world (think star wars Jawas desert crawlers, but city sized). The fortress monastery has relatively little in defenses relying on its constantly changing location and warp-mirage technology (rendering it almost invisible to the eye and third-eye, this tech was developed by their Tech Scholars, see below).

 

Interestingly enough the chapter has close ties with both a small sect of the mechanicum located on an adjacent world (exiled from mars for the belief that alien technology is essential for humanities survival) and the Ordo Malleus (for its assistance in quelling the many daemonic incursions in the southwest of the region, an unstable region believed to possibly form a warp bridge to the Eye itself). Because of this the chapter has a high number of both tech marines and librarians along with a third classification, Tech Scholars (Most captains and even several chapter masters having come from one of these orders, tech scholars specializing in Warp/Psychic technology) and is divided into two separate clans within the chapter. Through cooperation and tech scholar leadership (with a somewhat political aspect) both sides occasionally join to create experimental weaponry (fusing knowledge of the warp and machines). For this reason the chapter keeps to itself although secret communications are passed between its laboratories and Terra itself.

 

Tactically the chapter has large quantities of armor and rarely adheres to the normal tactical squad doctrine. Bikes, speeders and other fast vehiciles are predominant, while heavy and super heavy tanks are made readily available (both space marine specific, vindicators/land raiders, and through special requisition of imperial forces). The chapter also utilizes unique drop pods for transporting bikes to the surface, allowing the force to stay mobile and independent once deployed.

 

As far as appearance, the population is heavily tan, due to their desert home world, with a predominance for multi-hued eyes (predominately Psyker side of the chapter) and rust colored irises (mechanical oriented individuals). Their skin is also unusually tough and it is common practice for veterans within the chapter to enter battle without arm-guards or even chest plates where the atmosphere allows, relying on their hard skin and sharpened minds to avoid injury (though some chapters they have fought alongside have seen this as extremely reckless).

 

4. Chapter Symbol: I was thinking a Fist clutching a Scimitar, Or possibly just superimposed in front of one.

 

 

Please let me know what you think. Any suggestions would really help. I want to start painting soon, so I hope I can lock this down.

 

Thanks!

 

-Z

[Direach]

I think it's a perfectly valid name for a marine Chapter, especially if they are renowned for assault tactics and close combat.

 

I agree that earth-tone colours would work well. I'd suggest perhaps brown and grey, a colour combination you don't see much of in canon. Using subdued tones for their armour allows you to use much more dramatic colours for their accents (aquila, eyes, weapon casings, etc) without seeming garish. Brown and grey with an orange/gold aquila sounds appealing. Blue or teal green eyes.

 

Your fluff needs work. As was pointed out to me, 'unknown' is an annoying cop-out (they were a little nicer about it than that, but I took the meaning). :) I would drop the Ordo Malleus association in favour of Mechanicus; feels like too many ingredients going into the pot. Are they assault masters, tech savants, or demon hunters? Likewise, the name suggests massive power; I'd go low-end on bikes and speeders (or omit them) and focus on heavy armour. Perhaps they originate from a high-gravity world that makes speeders and bikes problematic to use, so they've compensated with more powerful, sturdy vehicles.

 

A scimitar suggests swiftness; Juggernauts suggests power. I would consider using a stylized "power" animal, like a ram's or bull's head, or even a rhino's head. Rhino would be cool, and has not been done to my knowledge. Could even be a dinosaur, like a triceratops; a stylized triceratops head would be powerful.

[soddinnutter]

Going into battle with bits of Armour missing just sounds stupid. Even by the liberal standards of 40K

 

Unknown Founding is annoying. If you can't think of something you use Ultramarines. Its the default setting.

 

Scimitar is a fast weapon. something built on speed and sharpness to kill, not unstopability. Try a hammer. or a Power-fist. things that tend to obliterate the things that they strike because of the shear unstoppable force it employs. Even a Axe would be better.

 

They would have to keep their dabbling into warp-tech extremely closely guarded secret. The Emperor had words with the Mechanicum about that sort of thing at about the time of the Unification Wars.

 

Everything else sounds fine.

[Machine God]

Use a Dog Skull.

 

Salute The Jugger.

[NightrawenII]

Juggernaut is daemonic steed of Khorne. Just saying.

 

and mainly combats less common foes, daemons of chaos, Eldar and a renegade group of sisters of battle who have taken refuge in a nearby asteroid field

- Unlikely. Chapters mainly combat Orks and Rebels, because these enemies are far too common. On the other way the Daemons are quite rare and contrary to popular belief there was/is just only one Sister, who has fallen to Chaos.

 

Interestingly enough the chapter has close ties with both a small sect of the mechanicum located on an adjacent world (exiled from mars for the belief that alien technology is essential for humanities survival) and the Ordo Malleus (for its assistance in quelling the many daemonic incursions in the southwest of the region, an unstable region believed to possibly form a warp bridge to the Eye itself). Because of this the chapter has a high number of both tech marines and librarians along with a third classification, Tech Scholars (Most captains and even several chapter masters having come from one of these orders, tech scholars specializing in Warp/Psychic technology) and is divided into two separate clans within the chapter. Through cooperation and tech scholar leadership (with a somewhat political aspect) both sides occasionally join to create experimental weaponry (fusing knowledge of the warp and machines). For this reason the chapter keeps to itself although secret communications are passed between its laboratories and Terra itself.

- Sniffling foul stench of MISS(= Me, I'm so Super.)

 

while heavy and super heavy tanks are made readily available

- The marines don't use the super heavies, it contradicts their modus operandi.

[GreySeerZ]

Thanks for all your responses.

 

I agree, the not choosing a founding was rather lazy, but I hate picking one, and then having some person say, well according to rogue trader magazine issue number bla bla bla, the bla bla blas only had 2 successor chapters in the 16th founding, both lost to the warp, bla bla bla.

 

But since it was stated, I will go with 9th, unless theres some reason I shouldn't, and we might as well make them Imperial Fist successors (siege weapons, etc). Don't wanna do Iron Hands because I want to stick with the idea of them focusing on hardened flesh, even if they use modified armor and aren't running around topless (though I still think it would be bad-ass, I mean some chapters really are crazy, removing armor to prove their loyalty/devotion in the emperor's protection seems like a believable unique identifier, but I guess if its that crazy (in a universe with flying skulls and ritual cannibalism) I will drop it, haha).

 

As for the split within the chapter (I like the idea of clans, and original splits in legions and some present day chapters), so maybe no combination of the two, but a division between divine protection, and machine protection (topless marines believe in divine psyker protection, probably led by librarian supplying 5++ save, other side: Terminators, but armored more heavily than normal, having the 3++ storm shield bonus without storm-shield, two handed grips on hammers, obviously explained to opponents before battle and modeled appropriately). Each chapter master is selected from one of the two sides through ritual combat. Its not too odd for some chapters to have different variants on armor and vehicles as well, so the terminator modification isn't that out of place (its not like they're designing new war gear, just slapping some armor plates/field generators on top of them). Other machine followers would also wear the forge world "iron armor". Warp-tech out the window!

 

I like the idea of a high gravity world, and modified tanks more fits their roll, I just have a force of primarily bikes and speeders, but maybe I can work that in somehow.

 

As for not combating Orks and Rebels, I understand that they will occasionally be pulled away for a campaign and such, but there are MANY chapters that have be positioned in locations where unique threats have been identified (Ghoul stars, maelstrom, necron home worlds). It is not that hard to believe that this area of space contains a more heavy population of Eldar and Daemons then usual (most likely Eldar are there because of daemons) and that the Imperium would not create a chapter and locate it here to protect Imperial interests from this on-going battle. The sisters of battle is a stretch, maybe they are located here as well but have come into conflict of ideas with juggers occasionally (I have to have some reason to face my friends army).

 

As for the super heavies I stated that it is just easier to requisition these forces for their association with Mechanicum and political ties to Imperium. While I understand they might not use them with their normal modus operandi, obviously if they are working with imperial guard commanders and the mechanicum they would be allowed to utilize these tools in battle, even if they weren't swinging their chain swords out the top hatch. But maybe I didn't make that clear enough, and again the space marine forces would just have more vindicators/predators/razorbacks than normal (I don't really like land-raiders though I guess I could throw a couple in).

 

I do realize that Juggernauts is also a daemonic steed of Khorne, and I was a little worried about this too, what do you think? I feel like there are plenty of chapters with "Star", "Horror" or "Knight" in the name, which are used to identify other things. I was not sure if this would hurt their name/reputation though?

 

As for the chapter symbol I really like the idea of using a rhino. It would fit them perfectly, and I would make sure it was non-Khorne juggernaut looking. A dog skull would be nice too.

 

 

Thanks for all your input, let me know what you think of these changes!

 

-Z

[NightrawenII]

As for the split within the chapter (I like the idea of clans, and original splits in legions and some present day chapters), so maybe no combination of the two, but a division between divine protection, and machine protection (topless marines believe in divine psyker protection, probably led by librarian supplying 5++ save, other side: Terminators, but armored more heavily than normal, having the 3++ storm shield bonus without storm-shield, two handed grips on hammers, obviously explained to opponents before battle and modeled appropriately). Each chapter master is selected from one of the two sides through ritual combat. Its not too odd for some chapters to have different variants on armor and vehicles as well, so the terminator modification isn't that out of place (its not like they're designing new war gear, just slapping some armor plates/field generators on top of them). Other machine followers would also wear the forge world "iron armor".

Psykers are distrusted because... well they are witches. TDA is already super-thick and super-heavy armour. Adding more than now and the marine wouldn't be able to move around.

 

As for not combating Orks and Rebels, I understand that they will occasionally be pulled away for a campaign and such, but there are MANY chapters that have be positioned in locations where unique threats have been identified (Ghoul stars, maelstrom, necron home worlds). It is not that hard to believe that this area of space contains a more heavy population of Eldar and Daemons then usual (most likely Eldar are there because of daemons) and that the Imperium would not create a chapter and locate it here to protect Imperial interests from this on-going battle.

- Daemons presence in material realm is temporal more often than not and any Daemon World is subject of Exterminatus by default.

- The Eldar could work, but messing with Eldar is like poking a sleeping dragon. Look at the Invaders.

 

I do realize that Juggernauts is also a daemonic steed of Khorne, and I was a little worried about this too, what do you think? I feel like there are plenty of chapters with "Star", "Horror" or "Knight" in the name, which are used to identify other things. I was not sure if this would hurt their name/reputation though?

Yes, but these words are "common", Juggernaut is unusual. It is like calling your Chapter Levianthans. But it's your Chapter do what you want.

[GreySeerZ]

Psykers are distrusted because... well they are witches. TDA is already super-thick and super-heavy armour. Adding more than now and the marine wouldn't be able to move around.

 

I wasn't thinking additional plates, more like customized field generator or possibly just highly ornamented. As for psykers, there are definitely chapters that use librarians, some to a heavy extent, some whose entire combat doctrine is based on faith in their librarians and the Emperor (Mantis Warriors, Silver Skulls, etc.). I don't see why that is an issue.

 

- Daemons presence in material realm is temporal more often than not and any Daemon World is subject of Exterminatus by default.

- The Eldar could work, but messing with Eldar is like poking a sleeping dragon. Look at the Invaders.

 

1. There are several instances where the warp is just more prevalent in a system than others, due to an ancient structure or native cultures worship, or the secret workings of a cult, or a chaos space marine presence, etc. If this is one of those systems I do not see why there couldn't be multiple instances on several worlds where daemons have manifested themselves... Its not like I'm talking Daemon World, just strong warp presence resulting in daemons. Obviously systems around the maelstrom or eye have a much higher chance of daemonic invasion, why can't there be a similar anomaly in a system vital to Imperial commerce that a space marine chapter was based in to protect against.

 

2. The Invaders were pretty stupid. GW just put them in the Codex to show the opposite extreme of the smart and tactical space marine army. They were just a bunch of gung-ho marines who threw caution to the wind, either due to uncontrollable rage or alien hatred. In my opinion the Eldar were uncharacteristically dumb in that story as well, allowing a craft-world to be attacked in the first place, considering most others are pretty good at floating their gigantic cities around without getting destroyed (Iyanden came close, but was also attacked by two Tyranid waves and Orks and still survived, let alone one space marine chapter). Plenty of other chapters have had successful campaigns against Eldar factions, as well as allied with them to face a greater threat (a la daemons). If my chapters actions result in some Eldar retaliation, then its just another source of battle, bring it on!

 

Yes, but these words are "common", Juggernaut is unusual. It is like calling your Chapter Levianthans. But it's your Chapter do what you want.

 

Yea, I'm still having trouble deciding on this part. I like the name because it is unusual. I've seen enough [war-related word] Angels and [metal] Knights to sink a ship. But I still might change my mind, or if someone has a better suggestion I'm all ears. I kinda like Leviathans. Haha.

 

Thanks!

[NightrawenII]

There are several instances where the warp is just more prevalent in a system than others, due to an ancient structure or native cultures worship, or the secret workings of a cult, or a chaos space marine presence, etc.

The manifestation of daemon(s) is only possible, when the bounds between reality and warp are weakened or because of one unfortunate psyker. Weakening has many forms, but majority of them is very time consuming or only temporal.

The close proximity to the Eye or Maelstorm doesn't make difference.

 

Obviously systems around the maelstrom or eye have a much higher chance of daemonic invasion, why can't there be a similar anomaly in a system vital to Imperial commerce that a space marine chapter was based in to protect against.

Well, it's not like they can't, it's because the Imperium has dedicated Daemonhunters, the Ordo Malleus and Grey Knights. The Daemons are too dangerous threat to be left in the hands of these not qualified.

[GreySeerZ]

Well, it's not like they can't, it's because the Imperium has dedicated Daemonhunters, the Ordo Malleus and Grey Knights. The Daemons are too dangerous threat to be left in the hands of these not qualified.

 

Yea, I get what your saying. Obviously conflict between space marine chapters and daemons is very rare. However, Exorcists are a good example of a space marine chapter that combats daemons besides the Grey Knights, and who are also associated with Ordo Malleus. Sure they perform non-daemon combating tasks, but they also specialize in facing daemons, and therefore would be more likely called upon in cases where the possibility of daemonic presence exists. I'm not saying that every day in the Juggernauts sector daemons pour out and slaughter things, but if once every 500 years a daemonic invasion occurs, with the assistance of traitor marines, cults and the Eb and flow of the warp-induced phenomena, interrupting imperial business, it is not that implausible that a chapter would be placed there to assist in the defense. Obviously Grey Knights would be called upon if necessary, but they wouldn't base grey knights in a sector, and would need immediate reactionary forces if important Imperial installations were at stake.

 

There are also many chapters which specialize in combating certain alien species and work closely with the Ordo Xenos. And even space marine chapters which work with Ordo Hereticus (although much rarer).

 

Just because something is uncommon doesn't mean its impossible. I would have a much harder time supporting this situation as a possibility if there was no evidence prior to this of any of the above actions occurring, however there are, so while it may be considered rare, it shouldn't be discounted as inconceivable.

 

Thanks for responding, its helping me think through these ideas!

[Leonaides]

once every 500 years you say. So thats 20 times since the start of the great crusade. By that logic it would be far more sensible to have stationed a couple of astartes chapters on armageddon... 3 massive invasions in only 200 years. And if the daemon incursions were more frequent than that the inq would prob just put a quarantine on those systems. They've done it elsewhere for less cause. And using the exsorcists as justification doesnt work as they are specifically said to be a lone example iirc.

[GreySeerZ]

once every 500 years you say. So thats 20 times since the start of the great crusade. By that logic it would be far more sensible to have stationed a couple of astartes chapters on armageddon... 3 massive invasions in only 200 years. And if the daemon incursions were more frequent than that the inq would prob just put a quarantine on those systems. They've done it elsewhere for less cause. And using the exsorcists as justification doesnt work as they are specifically said to be a lone example iirc.

 

I was just throwing a number out there. And I'd say the deployment of Imperial forces is not logical in any way shape or form. The Imperium is widely cited as throwing too much at something, or not enough. Not to mention the infinite amount of bureaucracy that goes into every decision. Not to mention the fact that Eldar presence in the system is another reason to justify a chapters presence.

 

As for the exorcists, I love forge world for the fact that they make the entire book a production of one lone inquisitor, including the fact that even the inquisitor does not know all the facts. They also heavily use the words (the only "known" chapter, or only "documented" chapter). This doesn't leave the door completely open, but it doesn't slam it shut either. Hell, 99% of the Space Sharks history is not even recorded. They could have been created to fight daemons, and changed drastically over the course of their absence. I wasn't using Exorcists to "justify" my decision, I was referencing it to show that not everything is black and white, and that chapters can be made with a unique purpose and deployed to a unique location because of their strengths.

 

As for quarantining would it make everyone feel better if the chapter was quarantined in the system along with the daemons/Eldar and not allowed to leave because of possible daemonic taint, or choosing not to leave in order to defend their home world (Star Phantoms Syndrome)?

[NightrawenII]

My point was, and still is, mainly fighting against uncommon foes is self-contradictory, because while these threats are rare, there is plenty of other, far more common enemies.

[Aegnor]

Although they may be relatively common in particular places, while still be rare overall in galactic terms. Chapters like the Iron Snakes seem to fight the quite rare Dark Eldar a lot. The chapters around the EoT fight Chaos Space Marines a lot, despite them being even rarer than loyalist Marines (I mean, there are what, a few 100,000 chaos marines in the entire galaxy?).

 

The daemon thing is a bit different - I don't think a normal chapter would fight them regularly, they certainly would fight them as and if required, but as you say if it was an ongoing/regular occurrence, the Grey Knights and Inquisition would be called in. Still, no reason the Chapter couldn't have had a couple of famous large battles against daemonic incursions so long as it wasn't their bread and butter.

[GreySeerZ]

Still, no reason the Chapter couldn't have had a couple of famous large battles against daemonic incursions so long as it wasn't their bread and butter.

 

Exactly. Its not like I'm saying that they're made to fight daemons, but were put in place to protect a sector from a warp anomaly whose byproduct happens to be daemons, along with Chaos Space Marines, Eldar Pirates and other stalkers of the warp. Imagine the maelstrom, with its eb and flow, but smaller scale, and affecting a single system or maybe just a couple small ones, with valuable resources. Its not hard to imagine a chapter being based there to protect those interests. Occasionally the anomaly expands, daemons manifest and are driven back, most likely with the assistance of inquisition and grey knights. If they weren't there to help stop these advances, they could affect other nearby sectors and inflict greater damage. I don't see why this isn't possible.

[Riconas]

Don't forget, there are always other enemies, just in case you do need a common enemy; Dark Eldar (as were mentioned before), Tau, Tyranid, or possibly even rebel Imperial Guard forces (the forces of Chaos seem to enjoy messing with the Imp Guard; probably because it's easier :P). Just some ideas. :)

[Aegnor]

I think you do need to be careful about making it sound like the daemonic incursions are predictable - if that were the case, I dOnt think the =I= would let imperials remain there. A significant daemonic incursion would be an extremely rare event. That doesn't mean that, a la Mordia or Armageddon, a huge invasion hasn't happened once or maybe twice in their history which they got caught up in because they were the ones on the spot.

 

Chaos cultists a la the Bloodguard and the other forces in the Gaunts Ghosts books sounds the best bet. They might reasonably regularly face summon daemons, but whole daemonic hosts maybe have only happened once or twice when the enemy has completed particularly dire rituals etc.

 

Re the anomaly, they do station marines around the EoT and Maelstrom, but not so close that their world is at foreseeable risk of being swallowed.

 

I like the idea, but maybe turn it down to 7-8 on the volume, rather than 11! :)

[GreySeerZ]

I like the idea, but maybe turn it down to 7-8 on the volume, rather than 11! :)

 

Haha, k, I will downgrade it a bit, but I'd like to include some aspect of it (considering a major opponent of mine is daemons). Alright, time to start writing a more in depth fluff.

[Drichar Deis]

Use a Dog Skull.

 

Salute The Jugger.

 

Good film, good idea, good recruitment planet ;)