The_son_of_Dorn Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Hey all, I was just thinking I know that in the days of 30k there were spykers (or however you spell it) forms the traitor legions, unlike their fallen brothers do you think it could be possible that any may of been soul bound to the emperor and still serve but under the Veil of the =][= Just thinking of writing a piece involving a Death Guard blank, and a Thousand Sons Librarian. (something along the lines of their gene seed is preserved and passed on to only those loyal and unwavering enough not to fall to chaos.) Basically I’m trying to focus on the teachings of the Primarchs whilst loyal as to reinforce the fact that even though mere men may not be as strong as primarchs it is the unbending will of the true loyalist that serves with greater aptitude, (so even men can accomplish more than a Primarch will power of will...........and a soul binding :huh:, but that would come after he’s proved his worth) Think it would be feasible? So Plot T sons librarian is accepted into legion, is stationed on Tera when Magnus contacts the Emperor, is also with a Death guard member who hates spkyers (like Mortarion) and who is also a Blank, the two hate each other, they end up seeing their legions corrputed and chose to stand by their loyalist cousin brethren, fight, etc etc T sons librarian is soul bound after proving his worth and strength, death guard blank though a loyalist still hates librarian, two are stationed within the newly formed I and so on. Very rough outline Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I've always disliked the idea of any member of the traitor legions forming anything after the Heresy. The Imperium had just been smacked in the face by their own right hand and lost the heart and soul of the Imperium at the same time - they would not be in the mood for forgiveness. It would be more of a case of shoot now and don't ask questions later. However, the HH books are begining to move towards Garro forming the heart of the Inquisition (boo hiss) and this opens the door for other such Astartes. I would still suggest that is more likely to be a storyline that ruins the storyline, but that wouldn't be my place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2675201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 people may hate what i write but they are aloud to, i just write these little fantasies because they make me happy and maybe somonelse would like em too, but I do get what you mean, but if you were a member of the traitor legion and you sided with your loyalist cousins and still fought in your heart and used your gifts in the emperors name, wouldnt that make you more worthy? geneseed heritage aside? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2675209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 It would to a normal, rationale person. The Imperium isn't known for being rationale. You asked for opinions on the storyline and mine is "I don't like it, but it is possible" :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2675216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 then in secrecey Jerhico shall be born, and in service of the emperor he shall serve! *runs to grab a pen and scraw across paper* :) thanking you :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2675221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 "I don't like it, but it is possible" :blink: I would like to add, "It is possible, but the loopholes makes it unbelievable." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2676140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I see a small problem. After the Rubric of Ahriman all the Thousand Sons were turned to dust and turned into "bodyless automatons for all time," well all but the Aspiring Sorcerers of Tzeentch who lead them. Or am I wrong? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2676151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Augustine Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 But the Rubric of Ahriman wouldn't apply to a brother who didn't fall, as he would not have gone with the other Thousand Sons into the Eye of Terror and been on their new homeworld when that spell was cast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2676860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 But the Rubric of Ahriman wouldn't apply to a brother who didn't fall, as he would not have gone with the other Thousand Sons into the Eye of Terror and been on their new homeworld when that spell was cast. In that case I have no problems with this scenario. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2676898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANGRYMARINE Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I see a small problem. After the Rubric of Ahriman all the Thousand Sons were turned to dust and turned into "bodyless automatons for all time," well all but the Aspiring Sorcerers of Tzeentch who lead them. Or am I wrong? And even if it were to somehow affect him, he would be relatively un-changed, those who were of the Thousand Sons that were Psykers/Sorcerers were unaffected by the rubric, any normal marines were turned into said automatons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2678775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Rik Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Uhm, didn't the Emperor effectively ban all psychic use by Astartes legions, and anyone outside of Navigators and Astropaths and other such ironically useful individuals, effectively? Now I know he is a "Do what I say, not what I do" kind of person, but it would be a little hypocritical, even for him, to decree that against Magnus and his legion at Nikaea, then return to Terra and let one of Magnus's legion (even a devoutly loyal one), to go and practice the psychic arts willy-nilly in the heart of his empire. Not that I'm saying that you shouldn't write your story. Just that you might want to explain that somehow. Or not. It's hardly unknown for authors to use a little (or a lot) of artistic licence (and general ignoring of things that don't suit their use) in order to tell a good story. It is your story after all, you can do what you wish. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2678786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 Well Jerhico stood beside the other loyalist legions at the battle agaisnt his own legion (this of course leaves room to show his unbreakable will power in the name of the emperor, and all that noise) i wanted to have the rubeeric still try to effect him someway, but this is where the soul binding comes into it, being attached to the emperors abilities would sheild him from such inferior evils :P (any way hed be a spyker so he would not of become an Ruberic anyway) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2679944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 What is a spkyer? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2679980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 What is a spkyer? It is psyker with spikes. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2680026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 sorry im not very good with with spelling that certain word :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2680750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Daeger Helsir Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 It's worth noting that the Emperor didn't ban psychic talents outright amongst his Legions; what he banned was Sorcery, which uses the warp in a far darker way and is much closer to chaos. In particular, the Thousand Sons were noted not just as being psykers, and not just sorcerors either, but studying "dark sorcery," indicating there was something inherently rather unsavory, beyond the norm that is, about the psychic talents and methods they were employing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2683222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Rik Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 It's worth noting that the Emperor didn't ban psychic talents outright amongst his Legions; what he banned was Sorcery, which uses the warp in a far darker way and is much closer to chaos. In particular, the Thousand Sons were noted not just as being psykers, and not just sorcerors either, but studying "dark sorcery," indicating there was something inherently rather unsavory, beyond the norm that is, about the psychic talents and methods they were employing. How do you define the difference between mere, "harmless" psychic powers and sorcery? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2683232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Daeger Helsir Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Well, 40k is hardly clear cut on these things, and 40k being 40k the line's probably rather blurry. but to my understanding sorcery is more ritualistic, involving stuff like forbidden tomes of occult lore, unnatural sigils, the blood of virgins, etc... Psychic powers on the other hand seem to work less as "spells" and such and more as a sort of instinctive shaping of power, an "I get REALLY MAD and focus on you REALLY HARD and your head goes POP" or "I meditate deeply and see what my mind can't pick up from the noise of the universe" kind of thing. The salient point is that the fluff seems to make some sort of distinction between the two, which indicates that they are not exactly the same thing, and since the Emperor specifically bans sorcery, not psychic powers, that also indicates to me that 1. psykers can be okay and 2. psykers are related to but are not the same thing as sorcerors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2683238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Rik Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Well, 40k is hardly clear cut on these things, and 40k being 40k the line's probably rather blurry. but to my understanding sorcery is more ritualistic, involving stuff like forbidden tomes of occult lore, unnatural sigils, the blood of virgins, etc... Psychic powers on the other hand seem to work less as "spells" and such and more as a sort of instinctive shaping of power, an "I get REALLY MAD and focus on you REALLY HARD and your head goes POP" or "I meditate deeply and see what my mind can't pick up from the noise of the universe" kind of thing. I'm in no means trying to insult you or pick holes in your argument, so please don't take it that way, but I think it's more than just 40k. Psychic powers and magic (if you are looking at science fiction or fantasy respectively) are portrayed in many ways, from requiring immense planning and ritualisation, to something that can be done with a blink, flick of a wrist or even a wiggle of the nose ((very) ashamedly referencing a very old tv show, if anyone gets that). It's not 40k just being uneccessarily obtuse, it's that all science fiction has a blurry line as you talk about; such powers are entirely anathema to humans and there's no set way to portray them, as noone has any clue how they would really work if we did have such powers. Also different cultures would view them differently, as do different authors (of which 40k is made up of many, many of them) But I digress. I don't personally think there is much of a difference, and even 40k "psykers" (as opposed to "sorcerers") still use ritualistic behaviour, chants, "spells", runes and lore. Astropaths often do this, as do sanctioned psykers, even Space Marine Librarians and quite probably Navigators too. It all depends on the teachings followed, and the procedures taught, as well as the abilities of the individual psyker. I believe "sorcerer" is simply the term used for "bad" psykers - a "bad psyker" being whatever the Emperor (or now, individual Inquisitor) doesn't like that particular day. It is a term used to distinguish between the good and the bad, and as we know any psychic power could be bad if misused, or if the psyker becomes possessed (which can happen to the best of them). The Emperor banned the use of psychic powers within the Space Marine legions - though many librarians/priests in some of the legions seem to get away with it - but still, hypocritically, allowed certain psykers to be used - such as the necessary navigators and astropaths and, well, himself. Ultimately the aim was to curb Magnus's own (and by extension, his legion) psychic experimentation, but without telling him why - i.e. a father telling off his son for doing something he isn't happy with. It wasn't really aimed to completely stop all psychic use - which kind of turns my original post further up back on my own head there, but there we go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2683243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 still working, you shall soon see as i'm done woth the first piece (college is taking up most of my time ATM) ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223657-a-far-fetched-theory/#findComment-2683284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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