DarkGuard Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hi there. Reading through one of the other topics at the moment I caught snippets about armies being able to bring 12 or so melta weapons to the table in 1500pts, and it got me thinking: "how?!". Right, I kind of know how, but I want to know, especially from people who use mass melta, how they balance mass melta with it's lack of ability at effectively dealing with hordes. I just want to know, as at times it seems to me that melta guns would have been more useful than my flamers. For a bit of background, my current 1500pts armies often tend to to have around 3-4 combi-meltas and 4 multi-meltas. However, only two of those multi-meltas are the fast, the other two are on Tactical squads. And considering that the combi-meltas are one shot, that give me only two "dedicated" meltas, my two MM/HF Speeders. In a recent doubles tournament we only packed in 3 meltaguns in 1500pts, but were found wanting when we struggle to kill a Land Raider. So what is the best way to take lots of melta, but to also keep your anti-infantry options open. I mean, after I pop the tank I've still got to deal with the guys inside haven't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatman Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Mass melta and anti-infantry? Sternguard with combi-meltas Heavy flamer multi-melta speeders Melta bike squads (twin-linked bolters, yay) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Mass melta and anti-infantry? Sternguard with combi-meltas Heavy flamer multi-melta speeders Melta bike squads (twin-linked bolters, yay) All good choices. For Codex Marines, I think the best sources of melta are attack bikes and sternguard combi-weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uldrick Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 don't forget the dread with MM and HF, it will tear open vehicule and completly engulf hordes in flames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norngahl Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Libby, TDA, SS, Vortex/Nullzone 140 Dread, TLAC, PC 125 Dread, TLAC, PC 125 5 Tacs, RB with TL-MM (IA2) 130 5 Tacs, RB with TL-MM (IA2) 130 Speeder, MM/HF 70 2 Speeder, MM/HF 140 2 Speeder, MM/HF 140 Predator, AC/LCs 120 Predator, AC/LCs 120 Landraider, MM 260 = 1500 Just 8 meltaweapons, but all multimeltas and 2 of them twin linked with complete mech. Could swap the PCs on the dreads for meltas, but you need some Anti-Meq in the days of wolves and bloods... Note that this is designed for a 48x48" plate where you can´t avoid melta. On 72" x 48" i´d kick the MM-RBs and a speeder for TLPG/LC RBs.. So just 5 MM.. In a non-mech or low-mech list- Attack Bikes (50 points for MM, yeah!) Tacticals with Combimelta, Melta, Multimelta Razorbacks with MM Dreads with HF/MM Speeder with HF/MM STERNGUARD Sternguard alone often carries 2 Meltas and 3 combimeltas or 7 combimeltas.. So you just need to add a few. Take a common Vulkan Drop List.. Ironclads, Tacticals, Sternguard, Tacticals, Speeder/Attack Bikes.. Meltas are pretty easy to get in high numbers, the more interesting question is- how can you get RELIABLE meltaweapons. And just to have meltaweapons isn´t a win button. The only thing you need melta for is AV13 and 14. And cause meta says 12 is awesome, just take a few for raiders and IG and you´re fine. Get back to traditional weapons. They rock in current meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatman Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Razorbacks can't take twin linked multi-meltas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Razorbacks can't take twin linked multi-meltas They can in Imperial Armor 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 id have to say attack bikes are alot more savage than tey look on paper.. played alloyslayer a month or so ago and his were tough little critters to get rid of.. turbo-boost them turn one and cause havoc turn two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 id have to say attack bikes are alot more savage than tey look on paper.. played alloyslayer a month or so ago and his were tough little critters to get rid of..turbo-boost them turn one and cause havoc turn two That's interesting, I often found my melta attack bikes were very fragile, even with the save. One failed save from a krak missile and they've gone. I personally prefer MM/HF Speeders for that job now, at least I can jump them over a building if need be. And thanks for all the replies guys. I was thinking that people knew something else I didn't, that they were equipping all their units with meltas while not having flamers and stuff like that. Meltas always been a funny weapon for me. It's one I know I need, but also one that never ceases to underperform, so I'm never sure on whether to take more of it or drop it all together. Of course, the last time I did that I went up against a double Land Raider list... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 id rate them better than speeders as they can hug terrain better.. my speeders keep getting shaken and stunned which means they never seem to get a shot off. the only real way to stop attack bikes when they turbo-boost is in assault and then thier T5 keeps them going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Play sisters of battles... power armour so it is all good here :D no need to make new friends... Flamers/Heavy Flamers everywhere... Meltagun/Multi-melta everywhere... AP1 krak missiles everywhere... On marines it varies from codex to codex... a melta and multi-melta on tacts with a combi-melta on sgt (Vulkan for melta spam fun woo)... combi on sgt on a scout squad in a storm with a multi-melta... multi-melta speeders... multi-melta attack bikes... multi-melta devs/long fangs... I'm gouing to assume wolfguard can take combi-meltas and can do a sternguard with everyone having one woo! dreads... of different sorts... you can get melta in every slot if you really want it that much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 That's very true Hellios, you can easily get melta into every slot if you wanted. I'm more concerned about the idea that if you somehow cram upwards of 12 meltas into 1500pts, would you suffer from lack at being able to combat anti-infantry. Would your massed boltguns be enough? Or would it depend on the armies you face. Again Marines, a flamer might not be as good as a melta anyway, whereas against Imperial Guard or Orks the flamer would be better. In this instance it would surely depend on your metagame as to whether you can spam melta to your hearts content or get by with a couple. So confusing, I'm quite glad I don't need to make new lists for the time being :D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyrionTheImp Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 2 Words: Dakka Predator. 85 points, 6 Str 5 shots, 2 Str 7, all from across the table. I'm sure it's entirely reasonable to pack 10-12 melta guns in a list and have at least 2 Dakka Preds at 1500 points. Don't quote me on that, I haven't actually worked it out, merely guessing. Also, yes, your massed bolters can work because most hordes are SLOW, and most Marines play MECH meaning you're more mobile than they are and can bring the mass bolters to a single portion of their army while receiving little return fire. Again though, it's already been mentioned about how most Melta platforms also carry anti-infantry of some sort, whether it's the combi-happy Sternguard who pack special ammunition, or the ever popular MM/HF Flamer who can roast hordies in cover and still put the eat on that tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destaro Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I find melta as your sole, or even main, anti-tank to be a very difficult tactic to employ in a non-Drop Pod, non-Bike, C:SM list. I find a mix of long range anti-armor (Rifleman Dreads, Preds with LC sponsons, Razorbacks with LC's, Devs, etc.) along with fast and/or reliable melta to be a more user friendly and effective. Off the top of my head, I think I could throw out between 10 and 15 melta/multi-meltas in a 1500 point list if I wanted to, but why would I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 MM attack bikes are surpisingly good against hordes. They can't carry an assault by themselves, but they've still got a set of twin-linked bolters and multi-melta and 3 attacks on the charge. If they're assaulting S3 opponents, they can survive a surprising amount of normal attacks, possibly enough to hold them in place until more troops arrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Against Marines, a flamer might not be as good as a melta anyway, dont be so sure, template weapons can be deadly even against high armour saves. a single melta shot requires you to hit first, and then wound, and only kills if there is no cover or inv saves. Against vehicles its one of the best weapons, but not everyone is rollng up with vehicles.. my space marine army sure doesnt. meltas have thier place in a space marine army, but too much of some thing is bad for you (thanks for the quote mum).. if your taking melta in every slot your only catering for big mech armies, which might be fine at your local games club, but as an all rounder force it is extremely flawed. at 1500 points id have dedicated anti-tank like attack bikes and/or speeders with MM/HF (dual use), if your using a LR pay for the MM upgrade.. take the odd melta gun in a tac squad. anything more and your wasting your potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I find melta as your sole, or even main, anti-tank to be a very difficult tactic to employ in a non-Drop Pod, non-Bike, C:SM list. I find a mix of long range anti-armor (Rifleman Dreads, Preds with LC sponsons, Razorbacks with LC's, Devs, etc.) along with fast and/or reliable melta to be a more user friendly and effective. Off the top of my head, I think I could throw out between 10 and 15 melta/multi-meltas in a 1500 point list if I wanted to, but why would I? I agree with this big time. I only use 4 melta platforms in my entire 1,500pts GT list and I rarely find there being too little on the table. The added power of a Lascannon is useful at long ranges and at closer ranges a Typhoons and Lascannons still provides threats to lighter armour up close. The trick with Marines is to ensure you have enough Melta weapons to deal with armour up close whilst also having options to deal with fast or opposing edge holding opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 never underestimate the humble lascannon, i lurrrve those babies. my 1750 list has 2 MMs and 2 combi-meltas, after that ive only 2 lascannons and a singe ML.. and i do fine vs mech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 That's very true Hellios, you can easily get melta into every slot if you wanted. I'm more concerned about the idea that if you somehow cram upwards of 12 meltas into 1500pts, would you suffer from lack at being able to combat anti-infantry. Would your massed boltguns be enough? Or would it depend on the armies you face. Again Marines, a flamer might not be as good as a melta anyway, whereas against Imperial Guard or Orks the flamer would be better. In this instance it would surely depend on your metagame as to whether you can spam melta to your hearts content or get by with a couple. So confusing, I'm quite glad I don't need to make new lists for the time being :). Hmmm the problem with melta spam isn't massed infantry bolters can deal... although it might be harder with loads of orks than if you had brought more infantry supressing weapons. Melta IMO has two issues... Range... When it takes you a turn or two going through IG fire to get into range you wish you had some auto-cannons/Missile launchers or better. It isn't just an issue against IG... DE can be a pain in the ass... bolters can take raiders down but most people would prefer not to rely on them! Monsterous creatures... again if all you are taking to deal with big nasties is melta and you come up against a list with no vehicles but lots of huge insects... sure you can use the melta but do you have enough range or shots to kill them before they reach you? and enough bolter to supplement the melta fire and also kill the little ones? For example my AirCav vets don't carry melta... because I'm happy I have enough weapons elsewhere to deal with vehicles... They do however pack plasma for killing MCs (it can help against vehicles), a demo charge for killing squads and a heavy flamer in case that isn't enough... yes my AirCav vets do have too much crap. The issue is also how you deploy your melta... for example if you are using tactical melta then you waste all those boltgun shots... in which case you might not have enough small arms fire for infantry... If it is a squad of attack bikes with nothing but melta then wasting a few boltgun shots isn't such an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 Cheers for the replies guys. So in short I'm being a little, I dunno, silly about the situation, and I haven't hamstrung myself by only have about 5 mobile meltas, while the other 2 are static. The way I tend to took at it is that melta is for Land Raiders and similar things, while Rifleman's, Typhoons etc are for transports. I think I would prefer to be able to drop a couple of flamer templates with my Tactical squad after their transport is blown up, as opposed to blowing the transport up with my Tactical's meltas and leaving them vulnerable to a counter assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Mobile Melta is the most important kind, in my opinion. Static Melta - such as a Tactical Multi-Melta sat on an objective - creates a bubble where vehicles will fear to tread, but this can be countered by using multiple vehicles or even avoiding the bubble with armour. With Mobile Melta you can threaten your opponent anywhere on the board and this leads to the most important thing you need to do when playing a game of 40k: Force your opponent to react to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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