Hybrid Biker List

[Br.Pat]

To do away with tactical squads, and to have troops that have a similar price and are infinitely better I've decided to use bike marines. However, I love my crusader and assault terminators (ATs) both because they are some of the best units in the game and because they are amazing units. Therefore, I'm trying to create a hybrid list and incorporate them into it.

 

What worries me is the fact that, although it's a LR, one tank in a 1750 list is still not going to be very survivable in today's metagame. One work around I've been thinking of is putting a couple of units of scout bikers in with locator beacons... scout bikers are pretty cheap, and by keeping them relatively close to the enemy you're ensuring your ATs will drop pretty close.

 

Yes I know biker command squads are a good replacement for ATs anyway... but what can I say I love mah termies <3

 

So what I'm asking is: Would this tactic be any good?

[TyrionTheImp]

You can't assault out of Deep Strike leaving your Assault Terminators vulnerable to being shot up or assaulted themselves. The most you can do is run to spread them out, and if you're only deep striking a single squad of them, they probably won't survive to the next turn. Also, you're using regular deep striking rules not Drop Pod Assault, so there's no guarantee about when they'll come in, and it's distinctly possible it won't even matter when they do.

 

It's too chancy in my opinion, you're leaving timing up to chance too much for a 200 point unit. Might as well just take the sure thing and get command squad, or more bikers, or long range support.

[Vincent Black Shadow]

Assault terminators teleporting in is situational. They can't assault out of the deepstrike, and likely will take a turn of nasty shooting before they get a chance to charge.

 

Maybe a home objective holder (cheep scout snipers) and a forward unit (centerfield melta bunker) with teleport homers or locator beacons, so you can decide where to best deploy them when their reserve roll comes up. Scout bikers, eh... if you get them into position then don't get your reserve roll, they're hamburger on wheels and won't accomplish a thing unless you commit them to being something more than a sacrificial unit to get your deepstrikers into play.

 

Putting them in a LR in a 1750 bike list isn't out of the question, but you are correct that it's going to really limit your options and likely not accomplish much for what you spend on it. But there's also the off chance that your opponent won't get the right rolls to slow down your LR, AV 14 isn't chopped liver. And every high-S shot coming at your raider is another shot that isn't denting up your biker units. Furthermore, with hurricane bolters, assault cannon, and a multimelta, the LRC has pretty good range synergy with bikers. At 1850+ you could even conceivably squeeze Vulkan into the list and field an army with nothing but twin-linked weapons.

 

I'd say try running your bike list with your LRC and assault terminators, and see how much they've accomplished in a few games. Note that they don't necessarily need to singlehandedly murder the other army to accomplish something. Then try the same with scout bikers, or other relatively cheap homer choices. See which fits your playstyle and local opponents best.

[maturin]

The image of a Land Raider rumbling along, surrounded by a bunch of bikers riding escort - it's GREAT! Very Mad Max. I might even try it out myself, if you don't mind Br.Pat.

 

AT's teleporting in always seemed a poor choice, as everyone will either drive away, run away, or blast them to smithereens. I think tactical termies would be better served in that role. If you used Shrike in your list, the teleporting AT's might be a bit more viable, but that's getting pricey and you might as well use your LR. Can you work some preds or rhinos into the list to give the LR some cover?

[Br.Pat]

I've been told that although the Assault Termies won't necessarily do much, the fear factor of such a unit warrants taking them anyway. I've been inspired by a certain type of list called 'Blood Rodeo by Kirby

 

The general idea is providing a solid 'rock' unit in your biker list to deal with heavier threats. The termies are only 200 points in a 1750 list and therefore surprisingly expendable. By deep striking the termies, you're effectively creating a zone that the enemy will not want to enter. Afterall, controlling the battlefield is key with a biker army.

 

The only reason I don't want to take a LRC is because it'll be the only mech. I don't want to take any tacticals (and therfore rhinos i.e. extra mech) because bikes are better.

[TyrionTheImp]

Such a blanket statement that bikes are better. If bikes were the best we'd all be running bike lists wouldn't we?

 

Anyways...yeah I just don't see that working very well. 5 TH/SS isn't worth the 200 points just to stand there and look pretty, and yes that's exactly what it sounds like you want them to do. Bikes control the battlefield by having superior mobility and the ability to concentrate on individual pieces of your opponents army with accurate coordinated fire, while being more resilient to normal anti-infantry firepower despite the lack of an AV around them. I agree that getting any sort of AV value in a bike army will probably hurt more than hinder, it's much better to overload the opponent's anti-infantry than give their anti-tank something to shoot at.

 

You're welcome to try this though, I honestly don't think it'll do anything worthwhile, but don't just go willy nilly thinking if you saw it on the internet it'll work, thus why personal experience is the best teacher.

[Ookami_81]

Anyways...yeah I just don't see that working very well. 5 TH/SS isn't worth the 200 points just to stand there and look pretty, and yes that's exactly what it sounds like you want them to do. Bikes control the battlefield by having superior mobility and the ability to concentrate on individual pieces of your opponents army with accurate coordinated fire, while being more resilient to normal anti-infantry firepower despite the lack of an AV around them. I agree that getting any sort of AV value in a bike army will probably hurt more than hinder, it's much better to overload the opponent's anti-infantry than give their anti-tank something to shoot at.

 

This. In other terms, consider bikes as light tanks and use them blitzkrieg style: outmanoeuver your ennemy, concentrate on a weak point, destroy it through local overwhelming firepower, escape to another new weak point of the enemy line, rinse and repeat. Or simply do like pansies: avoid combat till turn 5 and there take objectives...

 

How do you use such a big piece of equipment like a LR with hammenators in it in such an army ? It's not easy, but you can do it. In my biker lists I usually take vindicators. They fit into two main roles:

1) decoys. Fear make the enemy shoot missiles, lascans and pretty any high S weapons on them, allowing me to protect my bikes longer.

2) if they survive, they can destroy many things my bikes fears, like heavy multi-wound infantry, for example.

 

I think you can tru to use your LR in this fashion. You're lucky you've got the most mobile of the LR family. Simply you can't let it alone, as the only armour of your army. Problem is it's not a sit and shoot armour, so you can't pair it with riflemen dreads or preds. Maybe a vindi if you've got one ?

 

Or you can try very dirty tactics to protect both your bikes and your LR while advancing to the pace of the slower big tank.

Divide your bikes in two packs, one in front of the LR, one on a flank, on the same level. While advancing your behemoth, use the "turboboost scissors" manoeuver with your bikes, alternating the ones in front of your LR. This way your bikes don't let the LR alone at the rear, they get their cover saves, and they give a cover to your LR. This while your firebase pummels the ennemies ranks with kraks, autocannon shells, ordinance, and the like. You advance and choose you schwerpunkt.

 

Once you're at assault range with your LR, go straight forward and deliver the payload, while fleeing backwards with your bikes to avoid being charged. Let your hammernators stick the enemy, and kite the rest of his force with your bikes to shoot them to oblivion, while your firebase is still helping in engaging everything out of your bikes range.

 

This way you'll lose your hammernators, your LR will burn, but you'll win the battle, so it will be a good death for them. B)

 

What do you have as a firebase ? Bikes have to be supported by long range firepower, as much as possible. And yeah, I agree, they are the best infantry of our codex... when used properly.

 

Good luck, and good hunting, brother !

[ShinyRhino]

I've actually been gearing up to include a Crusader and Terminators in my bike-based list. I'm using Tac Terminators instead of Hammernators, though. I run a Bike Command Squad that does all the heavy hitting I need it to do.

Power of the Machine Spirit really helps the Land Raider mesh with the bikers. You can still move 12" and fire a weapon, so it keeps up with the bikes during overland travel.

It's also a HUGE model, and will give cover to your bike squads. My intent is to use it to screen my Bike Command Squad, with Troop bikers running as "wings" to prevent deepstrikers from landing close and applying meltaguns to the tank. As the enemy line nears, the wings peel off for other targets. The Command Squad bumps around the Raider, the Terminators pop out, and you execute a nice combined charge. The command squad hits fast and the Terminators hit hard. Both can put out a slew of bolter-strength shots beforehand.

[Tech Brother Torgo]

So if I'm understanding your strategy correctly, the forward bikes will be giving a cover save to the land raider? I'll have to look more closely later tonight, but will a screen of bikes cover 50% of that beast? I'd be surprised if that's the case, but I'll take it if it really works.

 

I tried crafting a couple lists around this framework, and I also run into some problems including enough long range support. With 4 5-man bike squads, captain, LR & termies you are left with about 400 points at 1750. 4 typhoons and change or two typhoons and two combipreds/riflemen seems like about all you can fit for support. Enough to make this viable?

[ShinyRhino]

So if I'm understanding your strategy correctly, the forward bikes will be giving a cover save to the land raider? I'll have to look more closely later tonight, but will a screen of bikes cover 50% of that beast? I'd be surprised if that's the case, but I'll take it if it really works.

 

I tried crafting a couple lists around this framework, and I also run into some problems including enough long range support. With 4 5-man bike squads, captain, LR & termies you are left with about 400 points at 1750. 4 typhoons and change or two typhoons and two combipreds/riflemen seems like about all you can fit for support. Enough to make this viable?

 

No. I was unclear. The wings protect the Land Raider only from deepstriking meltaguns, and only spatially. Deploy the wings about 4" to the left or right of the Land Raider, and no deepstriking unit should be able to put a standard meltagun on target,and still be in melta range, by virtue of having the first model be 1" away from your wings. If they place outside the wings, they're out of 6" melta range. If they place inside the wings, it'd better be a one-model unit or they risk mishaps galore.

It won't protect you from longer-range fire, or deepstriking Relentless multimeltas. Unless your opponent is packing a whole lot of S10 weapons, the Land Raider should survive to reach its target. Should .

[Tech Brother Torgo]

Blast, ninja post by Shiny made my reply all confused looking! I was referring to Ookami's note above. It sounds like he is getting a cover save for his LR from the bike screen. Not sure if this actually works...

 

I like the outriders imagery though! What point level do you find this effective? I'm trying to put together a 1750 but it seems pretty tight, particularly if I include the command squad. 2000 sounds like a more viable points range.

[Br.Pat]

I don't think you could realistically list both a LRC with ATs and a bike command squad in a 1750 list.

[Tech Brother Torgo]

I don't think you could realistically list both a LRC with ATs and a bike command squad in a 1750 list.

 

Well here's my attempt, but there is absolutely no room for fire support at this level. 2000 would at least be able to fit 3 typhoons. I'd be very interested to see what ShinyRhino is running as well.

 

HQ

Captain 180

Relic Blade

Space Marine Bike

Artificer Armor

 

Command Squad 335

Bikes

4 Storm Shields

3 Lightning Claws

1 Power Fist

 

Elite

Terminator Squad 505

Cyclone Launcher

Land Raider Crusader

Extra Armor

Multi-melta 1

 

Troops

Bike Squad 185

4 Bikers

2 Meltaguns

Attack Bike

Multimelta

 

Bike Squad 185

4 Bikers

2 Meltaguns

Attack Bike

Multimelta

 

Bike Squad 195

4 Bikers

2 Plasmaguns

Attack Bike

Multimelta

 

Bike Squad 165

4 Bikers

2 Flamers

Attack Bike

 

TOTAL 1750

[ShinyRhino]

I haven't done the exact math, but my stock lists tend to differ frm the one above in these ways:

 

- Cheaper Command Squad. I run mine with a Banner, Champion, Apothecary, Power Weapon, Storm Shield. Each is a different model. Comes out at 265. I don't pick on Hammernators or Wound Shenanigan Nobz, or even tanks with my Command Squad. It's for finding the weak point int he enemy line, and jamming itself in there. Small standard Terminators squads? Maybe, because their Invulnerable is only a 5+, and my Captain will go before anyone in the Terminator squad. It's all playstyle, though. Some like the gearmonkey builds for Command Squads, some don't.

 

- My biker squads are 5-strong, without attack bikes. I place Attack Bike Squadrons in my FA slots, because I've not found them to be all that useful when attached to a Troop slot, beyond being an ablative wound before losing a model. it's all about the range bands and target priorities of the different special and heavy weapon options.

 

- I also only tend to run three Bike Squads. A fourth would be nice, but I trade that fourth squad for a pair of Typhoons for transport busting and horde fragging.

 

- I like Assault Marines, so I take a full squad of 10 with a powerfist and two flamers. Taht's your 5-man Terminator points right there, because kitted in such a manner, my jumpers run 235 points. ;)

[Br.Pat]

Not a bad list there Tech... however i heartily suggest ATs rather than Tactical Terms simply because you're wasting a lot of their firepower by keeping them in a raider. Otherwise I think you'd be much better off dropping the raider, getting 5 more terminators and deep striking them.

[Ookami_81]

Blast, ninja post by Shiny made my reply all confused looking! I was referring to Ookami's note above. It sounds like he is getting a cover save for his LR from the bike screen. Not sure if this actually works...

 

I like the outriders imagery though! What point level do you find this effective? I'm trying to put together a 1750 but it seems pretty tight, particularly if I include the command squad. 2000 sounds like a more viable points range.

 

Hem, I'm not a huge expert on LR, for fluff reasons my chapter don't possess this kind of monster. (Too young, too poor, and too fast).

But I manage to have cover from bikes on things like vindis. With enough bikes and a little trickery you can have both units covering each other.

 

I just told you to try it: if your monster doens't have cover from bikes, well, it's just too fat ! :P

 

In 1750 pts forget having biker CS and hammernators in a LRC. I have lists with BCS in 1500 pts but they're for fun. You can have either one or the other starting at 2000 pts, both maybe in 2500. Bike armies requires solid firebase support, and these cost a lot of points.

 

Fluffwise your army could look like black templarish: a LRC with bikes (horses) around. Nice idea ! Even without cover shenanigans between bikes and LR, it's still an original idea. Try it and tell us how it performed on the battlefield.

[gettothegone]

I run something similar. 2 variants actually.

 

Vulkan

 

Commander Relic Blade / Bike * No shield, usually once you get into combat he's going to get hit with so much double strength weaponry anyway, you're going to fail your 3++ regardless*

Command Squad - Lightning Claws / Melta / Shields, Thunder Hammer, Shield

 

Melta, Melta, Normal, Sgt, M-Melta Attack Bike

Melta, Melta, Normal, Sgt, M-Melta Attack Bike

Flamer,Flamer, Normal, Sgt, M-Melta Attack Bike

 

M-Melta Attack Bike x 2

 

Assault Term Hammer/Shield x5

Redeemer, M-Melta

 

The other variant is

 

Korsarro/Bike

Command Squad - Lightning Claws / Melta / Shields, Thunder Hammer, Shield

 

Melta, Melta, Normal, Sgt, M-Melta Attack Bike

Melta, Melta, Normal, Sgt, M-Melta Attack Bike

Flamer,Flamer, Normal, Sgt, M-Melta Attack Bike

 

Typhoon

Typhoon

Typhoon

 

Assault Term Hammer/Shield x5

Redeemer, M-Melta

 

The first one is a tank hunter list. I play in a very tank heavy environment. I didn't feel like joining the MSU game after playing a few rounds with it, so I roll with this instead. Can force the issue pretty much turn 2, and really shut down MSU by turn 3-4 with smart and calculated play. You can't just ramshackle your way in with bikes. It rarely works, and your troops are pretty much throw away if you get into B2B with any assault unit but if you use terrain properly, and turbo boost and allocate wounds, you'll end up with a 24" melta sniper fest that just ruins AV 11/12.

 

The second one is more all comers. Play smart against whatever you come up against. If you come up with an opportunity to outflank that Land Raider/Command Squad with a for sure assault result, then you're already ahead of the game. I've never really had outright issues with anything I've played except for Green Tide KP missions. Even with the already low amount of KPs I have, its difficult to cause that many wounds with 120-150 units on the table.

 

Also outflanking is extremely situational so use it wisely. *33% Chance to come in on the wrong side, not so worrisome when your unit can cover 24" and be where you needed to the next turn anyway, can't say the same for the raider, sometimes its just better to start on the table, use your judgment to figure out when it is and when outflank is better... I've disabled entire Tau armies on turn 2 by multi assaulting 3 groups of crisis suits and a devil fish. Don't ask, I warned him in advance that I was going to do it, he ignored me*

 

Using a mixed list like this you really have to be smart about what you do. Your units are fragile *apart from the command squad and raider* so you have to think constantly about how to keep them alive, while still being able to utilize them. I lost a lot of games using the above till I figured out how to use this, and get out of the "drive forward, roll dice" mentality that a lot of SM players adhere to. There is nothing wrong with hiding, and nothing wrong with playing keep away, its not just for Eldar.

 

The Typhoons add a bit of duality to the mix as well. The ability for them to stay out of the fight and still be engaged at long range is an excellent synergy to the bikes you're protecting by staying out of the fight as well.

 

Everything is a 3 save to you at distance, and most of the time, only 1 or 2 at a time can reach... use this to their disadvantage.

 

Not the perfect army obviously, but both of these lists have been exceptionally kind to me, and I'm starting to really enjoy being a marine player, but forgoing the scouts and tactical squads.

 

Edit: Those lists are 1850, to drop to 1750, remove the double melta attack bike squad from the first, and drop a single typhoon, and change flamer to melta in the second.

[gettothegone]

Also, you can't provide cover to tanks with bikes as far as I know. They don't cover 50% of your tank unless you've modeled them to be completely solid bricks.

 

If someone is willing to post a picture showing how they think they can, I'd be more then happy to see it from a constructive point of view.

[gettothegone]

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