Cockroach Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Q. If a unit scattered over various levels of a ruin are assaulted on the ground level, do models on the upper levels have make a 6 inch pile-in move down the levels? It would seem so but there's a picture in the 'ruins and assaults' section with a unit of marines being assaulted by a group of genestealers, stating who can fight and who can't... the marines clearly haven't made any pile in moves. Scenario: My unit is scattered over a ruin defending an objective on the very top level. My opponent assaults me on the ground level and states I must move all my models down 6 inches for the pile-in move, thus pulling me off the objective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223873-pile-in-moves-in-ruins/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Don't read too much into that contrived example. The answer is Yes, they do have to make Pile in! moves, which may (but not necessarily) pull them all away from/off of the objective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223873-pile-in-moves-in-ruins/#findComment-2677116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Actually...I take it back, haha. They have to move *up to* 6" and get to a place where they can join in the assault - if they can reach. So they have to make it into Base-to-Base. If they can't, then they have to be within 2" of another model that can: this part here is where you can try to leave some on the objective, as that same example you cited shows you can measure the 2" from model head to model base. If you can't get them within 2" of a model that's in base-to-base, they just have to stay in coherency. That's how pile-in works, and you might be able to game that a little bit to leave a model or two on the Objective. You do have to enforce Pile In! on every model involved in the combat, but it may not steal the objective from you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223873-pile-in-moves-in-ruins/#findComment-2677118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cockroach Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 Yeah I fully understand what you're getting at... so, presuming a level is 3 inches, models on the first 2 levels would have to move down to ground to make it base to base but any models above these levels can actually go wherever they want as long as they are within 2" of a friendly model that IS base to base and failing that they just need to remain in coherency and that could mean just staying on the upper levels. It doesn't seem to state anywhere that you HAVE to move the full 6", just UP TO 6". Wow, I hate how this game makes you resort to an exploit to counter an exploit Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223873-pile-in-moves-in-ruins/#findComment-2677127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 This would still be quite hard to pull off, ruin or no. But as thade said: 1. Must move into BTB. 2. Failing that, must get within 2" of a friendly in BTB. 3. Failing that, must stay within coherency. So on a ruin (all floors are assumed to be 3", regardless of actually modelled distance), of your men were only engaged on the ground floor, members from the first two floors would move down into BTB. Men from the 3rd floor would move down to the 1st to be within 2" of a friendly in BTB. Men on the 4th floor and higher can do whatever so long as they stay in coherency, so at least one would have to move to the 2nd floor and one would have to go to the 3rd. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223873-pile-in-moves-in-ruins/#findComment-2677183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Careful: it's not an exploit...it's da rulez. People don't get mad at you in chess when you castle at the last second to bail your King out of certain doom. If a model CAN get into base-to-base, it has to. Moving your models to the letter of the rules is following the rules. That's sort of why we do this OR board thing here...to make sure we're playing within the rules when we do things. =) I admit, some things are cheeky when you follow rules "to the letter", but this is at the low end of the cheeky spectrum, to be sure. That said, even if you manage to leave a model on/near the objective, that objective is very likely still contested if you're in an assault and they have models all up in your grill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223873-pile-in-moves-in-ruins/#findComment-2677192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 indeed. So again you do not HAVE to move them all 6" but you do HAVE to move them all into base to base if you can. only if the model absolutly cannot make it to base to base in 6" can you take the secondary choice of moving to be with 2" of a model that IS in base to base. see the bullets at the botom of the left column on page 34 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223873-pile-in-moves-in-ruins/#findComment-2677287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cockroach Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 Yes but its the third choice thats 'exploitable'... 'if it's not possible, it just needs to remain coherent'. This implies that said model doesn't even have to move closer to the enemy as long as it remains coherent with its unit. This scenario probably isn't even that rare with the coherency rules regarding ruins. You could end up with a chain of guys leading back up the levels of the ruin to the objective using 'beardy' positioning of models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223873-pile-in-moves-in-ruins/#findComment-2677317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 As I tried to explain, it's not "beardy" or "cheesy"...especially not compared to other rule loopholes that have been exploited. If a trooper can't get into the whirl of melee to help his comrades, it makes sense that he'd take up a solid position on his way to do so: that may involve sticking to the objective he was holding. This usage is *extremely* limited. There are two Pile In! moves. The first is when you respond to an assault against your unit. The second is when the combat has been resolved and neither side is dead or running away. In both cases, both units get to move up to 6" to come to grips with the other one. In all likelihood, if any of your models are not in BtB with a foe by the end of an assault phase, it's because your guys were awkwardly congo lined out and less than half of them were able to get into the assault in the first place. It's rare. Very rare. Too rare to be called an exploit, for sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223873-pile-in-moves-in-ruins/#findComment-2677327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 As Thade said, there are two Pile In moves. If your models survived the fight, and were charged in that ruin, the attacker gets to move HIS models that are not in B2B first. You can bet your sweet bippy he'll be moving as far upward toward that objective as he can. Once he's moved as many of his unbased models to base with yours as he can, using that 6" move, you have to do the same. Those unbased models on the higher floors are most certainly going down a floor if they can reach B2B. By the time this is all done, the objective is very likely to be vacant, or at least contested. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223873-pile-in-moves-in-ruins/#findComment-2677455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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