Brother_Mike Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Hey guys, I've been lurking around the BA forums for awhile now since I revitalized my 3rd ed. BA army for our new codex and I have been having a lot of fun with it. No more vague rules and rolling to take mans out of your regular squads and put them in the death company (though I didn't mind it when I rolled a 6 and got to take out a bare bones sergeant for a DC w/ Power Weapon). But, unlike most things in the new BA codex that have a specific purpose or niche, to me the Sternguard just don't have one. Their obvious strengths are their versatility in dealing with situations at a medium range firefight, which means they would be a fantastic fire support unit. But, to me, if I'm gonna have a fire support unit, I would want it to be a scoring one, so I can claim objectives. Which means I'd be choosing either a scout squad or tactical squad (both of which are cheaper and get free weapon upgrades). But on the other had, you can pack a lot of melta shots into a Sternguard squad to make them even MORE versatile. At the expense of points which would probably be better spent elsewhere. I just don't know what this unit guys, I love the idea of them and how much of a threat they can pose if they are ignored. Maybe the problem is I have no experience with them yet. I'll try proxying them this weekend and tell you guys how it goes. BUT, until then, I would like to know what you guys think of them. And, if you would/have/are playing them, how you equip them and what kind of transport you give them (if any) Tanks for reading, Brother Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadfilth Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 welll in a tournament i tend to regularly run a squad of ten in a drop pod with all combi meltas. they hit, you combat squad them, and then nuke two enemy pieces of armour all to hell. works amazing against mc's too. only problem is that they are usually a one hit wonder unless the rest of your army is very fast(storm ravens and lotsa jump infantry). I tend to play very fast and furious though. by second turn my entire army is in the enemies deployment zone. so yeah, sternguard with combi meltas will ruin someones day hard. you can also just take a 5 man squad with a libby with the spear of sanguinious for similar effect. regardless they will ruin someones opening turn and usually they win games for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d503 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I played a crimson fists player who used Kantor to make his stern guard scoring, then had a librarian with the teleport power. He teleported them around getting in short range firefights and contributing to their firepower with psychic powers. Worked well against my guard army anyway. In a blood angel army I don't know. Without Pedro Kantor to make them scoring, I think their usefulness is limited. Having 5 of them pod in with combimeltas, frag a tank and then engage the infantry swarm would be nice - but it wouldn't work against my guard as no tank is ever far away from 20 infantry and a commissar, and I just can't see them hacking through that much meat. And with a Pod, 5 combimeltas and a power weapon they would be much more expensive than the tank they would kill anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Having 5 of them pod in with combimeltas, frag a tank and then engage the infantry swarm would be nice We have a new tactics - Sternicide ;) Seriously though, I'd find them effective against units, like Banshees. The ones you'd avoid assaulting, but would want them dead right away. Having them scoring would be nice, but BA already have scoring RAS, so I wouldn't complain about it. Using them against tanks is not wise, tbh, as BA have melta-death Honor Guard, which is much better due to Novitate.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d503 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Meltadeath honour guard would survive much longer against an swarm infantry counterattack - and maybe even win if there was a character in the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 The sane version of Captain Tycho would be a good choice to run with your Sternguard. G :teehee: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vharing Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I really like undeadfilth's idea. One of the other topics someone said that 10 Sternguard are too much, but combat squading them is a great idea. Not only is it twice the targets engaged, but it is also twice the targets your enemy has to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I like Sternguard, though I don't often run them as they aren't jump infantry. When I did, what I found worked best was 6 guys (or 5 and a character) in an assault cannon razorback. Once the sternguard get close, they can provide great fire support for other units and aren't bad in an assault (I usually gave my Sternguard sergeant a lightning claw to help in close) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou666 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Well, I have always liked the idea of three six man sternguard squads, all with two plasma guns in each, and a plasma pistol. 15 plasma shots per turn when you are up in thier face. Then put those squads into three stronos razorbacks, (TL plasmagun, lascannon) which then measn 18 plasmagun shots, plus three lascannon shots, pluss all the other boltgun shots. Armies with eliteist soldiers, and monstrous creatures will be crying, especially if you have some decent assult units to back them up! at aproximately (VERY aprroximately) 650-700 points, it aint cheap, but i think that using sternies for plasma spam could be quite feasible, just have two big assault squads (and a chaplain) to back 'em up. :lol: could someone get a more accurate pointage for this? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I make that 825 points and of course you use up 3 elite slots, which means no priests, furiosos etc. Not good IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou666 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I make that 825 points and of course you use up 3 elite slots, which means no priests, furiosos etc. Not good IMO. Remember that this thread is about finding a way to field sternguard, not priests and furiosos, but thanks for the calculation. Mabye i'll just go for rhinos to keeps costs down no? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelus Mortifer Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Whilst the combat squadding pod of Melta is a tactic used by many, even standard Marines, you could always go half with Meltagun and Melta-Combi, and the other half with Flamer/Hvy Flamer plus Flamer combi. It's again an expensive loadout for what could easily end up being a throw-away unit, but it's a nice option when you have a particular transport you want to eradicate AND then toast the nasty squad inside, e.g. Land Raider full of Khorne Bezerkers, Rhino full of Plaguemarines on an objective, Fire Dragons in a Serpent etc. Taking something annoying out that early, or at least making it largely combat ineffective can immediately change the complexion of the game before it's even begun. Only at the end when dice are down will you know whether their sacrifice made life easier for the rest of your force though. Like you said though, playtest a few friendly games with different options to decide whether they're viable for you. Just a thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Mike Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 The sane version of Captain Tycho would be a good choice to run with your Sternguard. G :lol: This is confuses me. Pay for an expensive HQ that is better in combat than shooting? Just because he has special issue ammunition doesn't mean I should put him in a unit I plan to keep out of combat the entire game, right? I figured a Librarian or even a priest w/ a Storm Bolter or Combi weapon would be a better choice to add firepower and/or survivability. Anyway, I was thinking about them more last night (while doing Calculus homework, because ACTUALLY doing homework dumb), I figured they would do well with a heavy mech force. That way there are higher priority targets than them and if you give them combi-meltas then those points spent on the combi weapons would probably end up being worth it, at least the way I write mech lists. I'd probably run them something like this: 6 Sternguard w/ Combi Meltas Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon Comes out to 270 I believe and packs a lot of hurt for just 6 mans I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfinger Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I think sternguard make good "distraction" units and fit better in "shooty" type BA lists, for example check out this list posted by Stelek over at "yes the truth hurts", you got to take some of what he says w/ a grain of salt, but this list goes from shooty to nasty real fast. http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2011/02/blood-...s-another-look/ Ashton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.darkness Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 i havent actually got this but statistically it can get 2 penetrating hits on a land raider and then kill 4 of the termies that pop out if you combat squad them. 10 sternguard 5 combi-meltas 5 combi-plasma (which rapid fire) in a drop pod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnon Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I just had a thought how about sternguard in a stormraven? Move stormraven 24" and deepstrike sternguard + shoot something to bits. If they have combi melta's they could alternatively go 12" disembark shoot melta's at unit + charge. If you add Tycho and maybe a priest to the mix they'll probably do pretty decent on the charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I just had a thought how about sternguard in a stormraven? Move stormraven 24" and deepstrike sternguard + shoot something to bits. If they have combi melta's they could alternatively go 12" disembark shoot melta's at unit + charge. If you add Tycho and maybe a priest to the mix they'll probably do pretty decent on the charge. I believe shatter has made similar suggestions in the past. I haven't tested the idea, but it seems like a good use of Sternguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Mike Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 I just had a thought how about sternguard in a stormraven? Move stormraven 24" and deepstrike sternguard + shoot something to bits. If they have combi melta's they could alternatively go 12" disembark shoot melta's at unit + charge. If you add Tycho and maybe a priest to the mix they'll probably do pretty decent on the charge. I believe shatter has made similar suggestions in the past. I haven't tested the idea, but it seems like a good use of Sternguard. Interesting, but I always figured a Stormraven would be good for, you know, transporting an assault unit. It's an idea though, I don't have a stormraven to try the idea out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I don't see Sternguard as a good assault unit since their main strength is rapid firing. I think they work best from a rhino while the Stormraven is best for true assault squads. G :teehee: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealadin Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Yea there isn;t much reason to put them in a SR, placed melta is not something BA really struggle with. 10 DC with PW's and a Reclusiarch coming out of a SR on the other hand... well stuff is going to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Sternguard are shoot phase specialists. For Assault they're as good as RAS. Each turn has a shoot and an assault phase. (welll duuuhhh!) It doesn't matter which phase one scores kills in. Scoring kills in both is very good. Being merely able to do both is good as an increase in options increases tactical flexibility. The combi meltas and flamers and Heavy Flamers are assault weapons and Sternguard have pistols anyway. They are as assault ready as pretty much any BA model. Anyway... Sternguard in a BA list. I think, right or wrong, that BA can do a version of pretty much any MEQ list. But I doubt folks are interested in how to make a run-of-the-mill MEQ list with Sternguard in it, even with the BA codex. Several months ago, I wondered what cargo should go in a SR and asked the frater here what their opinions were and why... with some point limits and stuff. The results were a little boring. Oh well. But during the process I threw out a shooty SR and cargo. - I realised some time after that what BA do well is delivering points on reserve rolls. You don't want your units to arrive one at a time as they'll be handily eaten and have no hope versus hordes. Anyway... a SR with a cargo and dread is a massive quantity of points on a reserve roll. It's also 3 or more units. The only stuff that can get close are reserved LRCs... and they're still a non-DS unit for all codexes but ours. Then there's the general downside of DS. No assaulting. OK. Sternguard = Shooty Priest with combi-M = 1 turn anti-vehicle/MC shooty HQ = often with 1 turn anti-vehicle/MC shooty (Tycho, Dante, CustomHQ/libby) Furioso with frag cannon/Libbynought with Fear/lance/Bloodboil = shooty SR = Shooty... HMMMMMmmmmm. I've pointed this out here several times. A few seem to have taken the theory on board. *shrug* I was dissatisfied with the responses to be frank, yet I knew I'd feel more comfortable browbeating others with it's logic if I were to put it into practice, so I tried it out at a shop with the store's models. (from memory and wow, I can't believe what I've forgotten already) HQ 2 x Priest with combi-M Sternguard 2 HF, Combi-Ms (6 - 9, I forget) Furioso with frag cannon and maga grapple, Melta arm SR with Ass cannon TLMM etc. The cargo infantry unit disembarked in multiple pieces. One priest alone, one with the sternies etc. (ICs can disembark beyond 2" coherency and are treated as separate) I forget what the HQ was or if he was with the group (I played a few games that day) Anyway, SR shot at two armour targets with PotMS from DS. Priest shot an outlying rhino. Furioso overkills one rhino with melta arm and grapple and gets two rends with the double template. 3 THREE! III! Rhinos popped... in one turn! By itself!! Sternguard et al shoot a rhino with faaar too much melta and burn a load of spilled infantry from the other wrecks with their HFs. 6 rhinos in a turn, the guy conceeds, no losses. Six. Yep. I think he realised as soon as it landed that trying to keep his rhinos together in a parking lot was a very very bad idea. Anyway, it underlines the point. If you've got a SR and the new dread kit, get yourself a sternguard squad. Sometimes, instead of deploying the thing, reserve it for a drop against hard as nails enemy centres. If it dissapoints, the dice had it in for you. In an 'all SR' list, I think if you've got 2 on the table, this or similar load-out on the third and reserved is as good as it gets. LRC deepstrike sternies is almost as good... but no dread. PLUS Points spent on the LRs AV14 survivability eats into the reserve roll's point value lethality. You can of course just deploy them on the table within the SR and use it as normal and maybe get the shoot and charge to happen. *shrug* It's just a little easier for the enemy to do something about it. Well, that's not all my thoughts on sternguard, but it should be food for thought. Happy murderising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I agree with shatter after a couple of games recently, i used the Sterngaurd to hit a hive tyrant with poison rounds which promptly killed it, while the dreadnaught tied up a large (15+) gaunt mob and my SRs firepower was poured into the genestealers with the MMs hitting the tyrant gaurd. Needless to say, the following assault phase was all about consolidation and i had a huge pocket to manouver in. I usually pod them in second wave with my DoA army to hit anything near my first wave with HF or melta/plasma goodiness (hive tyrants and those ones that spew out the small ones are high priority) or just bring them on in my mech force with a assback. They get a lot more action in my Ultras force though, because i absolutly love the fluff for them, so much so that my wife gets jealous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Take Honour Guard. Sternguard are only good for Special Ammunition bolters. Which, whilst ok, are not amazing. Honour Guard on the other hand can get 4 Meltaguns, 2 attacks each base AND a built in Sanguinary Priest for 155pts. Thats amazing value. AND they do not use up a precious Elites FoC slot either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Thanks Shatter. That is something I'm planning to try when I get my raven built (sternguard with a libby or Tycho and a priest and probably a furioso with frag cannon in the raven). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Mike Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 Take Honour Guard. Sternguard are only good for Special Ammunition bolters. Which, whilst ok, are not amazing. Honour Guard on the other hand can get 4 Meltaguns, 2 attacks each base AND a built in Sanguinary Priest for 155pts. Thats amazing value. AND they do not use up a precious Elites FoC slot either. Right, there are only 5 though. They don't get heavy flamers either. They don't have the possibility of ignoring cover etc etc. We get it that Honor Guard might be a better choice, BUT this thread is about Sternguard, not min/maxed Honor Guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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