Saevius Angelus (AKA Angels of Rage)

[Riconas]

The Saevius Angelus

 

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3091/sachapava.png

 

 

 

Brief History (more to come):

 

Following the battle on Sabien, Chief Librarian Mephiston consulted with Commander Dante on the events that transpired there, specifically Brother Rafen's ability to wield the Spear of Telesto and use it to bring his battle-brothers back from the brink of the maddening abyss known as the Black Rage. Having survived and overcome the effects of the Red Thirst once before, Mephiston had seen that Rafen had done so as well, using his sheer power of will combined with the might of the Spear to not only vanquish the accursed, warp-spawned physical form of the Malfallax, but also to save his brothers from the dying cursegift of the Chaos daemon that instantly sent them into a maddened frenzy, and was intended to be their own undoing.

Seeing the potential to not only resist the insanity which accompanies the Black Rage, but also to harness its power during combat, Mephiston called upon Honoured High Chaplain Lemartes (who is also known to have quelled the torments of the Rage and turned them to his own end) to help him seek out and separate those amongst the chapter who give the slightest evidence of the sought potential; when enough such soldiers had been found, a new, special company, the "11th Company" (similar to the Death Company) was created within the ranks of the Chapter, and the ranks of this company were filled with Blood Angels that were able to control the wrath of the Black Rage and turn it upon their enemies.

Upon counsel with Mephiston and Lemartes (as well as Sanguinary High Priest Corbulo), it was determined that Brother-Sergeant Rafen would be best suited to lead the company. Having once turned down the position of Captain of the Sixth Company after the battle on Sabien, Rafen saw the purpose and necessity of his being chosen once again to lead a company of men, and accepted the appointment. Eventually, so many Battle-Brothers had been found to fill the company that it was decided a new successor chapter be created, thus the Saevius Angelus was born, with Brother-Captain Rafen (AKA Rafen the Redeemer) at the lead.

 

 

(Bear in mind that this was a quick history I typed up in Notepad so that I wouldn't forget it; by no means is the complete history, nor is it immune to change and revision; I just have not had the time to go though and make the changes I want and need to.)

[Lysimachus]

Firstly, welcome to the B+C Riconas! If you're interested in creating your own DIY Chapter, the Liber forum is definately the place to be! I'd recommend reading the 'Guide to DIYing' stickied at the top of the forum page.

 

A couple of more specific points: Firstly, a Chapter, even the Blood Angels doesn't get to just decide to create a Successor; it's a long, drawn out process that involves the High Lords of Terra, declaring a Founding, plus a lot of work by the Adeptus Mechanicus. It's a lso a bad idea to start writing new stuff for one of GW's main Chapters, especially one like the Angels who already have a host of fluff and their own 'dex! If it had happened, why wouldn't GW have told us about it already?

 

As a side point, I'm not especially a Blood Angels fan, but I have read the 2 Rafen/Arkio stories, and they are generally held to be among the worst fluff-breaking books that the Black Library has ever produced. While I don't think the writing is too bad in itself, I completely agree as far as the fluff-hammering goes, it's terrible!!! That's up to you, of course, but I figured you should be warned that you might get some 'hate'... :teehee:

 

 

Hope this is of some help

 

Lysimachus

[Riconas]

Thanks for the info and tips, Captain Lysimachus; I didn't mean to suggest that the chapter did everything on their own; it's simply a brief history, meaning I didn't bother to include many of the assumed details; I do plan to expand on it (and perhaps even revise it) later. As for writing fluff for the Blood Angels, I wouldn't say it's so much that as it is fluff history for the created chapter, though it does involve the parent chapter to a degree; most of the fluff won't really involve the Blood Angels at all, save for anything that involves main characters, such as Lemartes, Mephiston, or Corbulo. Besides, most of the information above was taken from the book series, which I don't really understand how it is seen as such a fluff-breaking series; granted, I may not know as much about the fluff or history of the Blood Angels as many others, but is there actually material out there that conflicts with the events that took place in the series? And even if there is, unless it's officially from GW, then it's someone's else invented fluff, and if they can create their own fluff for the chapter in a book, why can't someone do the same for their army? Just because GW didn't say it happened shouldn't necessarily mean it didn't happen; if we left all of the storytelling up to GW, they would be overwhelmed, meaning there wouldn't be as much, in which case it would be rather boring. Just like any other situation where I create a character with a history and biography (in this case, the character being a chapter), I like to think of the world in which it exists as open and dynamic, where almost anything can happen, as long as it fits within that world, especially with so many different divisions of so many armies of so many races that are themselves quite large.

 

As for the books, I actually quite enjoyed them (though the author could tend to be a bit over-descriptive at times); I haven't been able to find any other novels regarding the Blood Angels, so as far as I know, except for everything that is inside of the C:BA, that's all of the written history of the Blood Angels (except of course for that which enthusiasts have created on their own).

 

 

I'm basically doing this more for myself than for anyone else; I considered starting another Blood Angels army, but when I thought about how many OTHER Blood Angels armies are most likely in existence, the idea seemed, well, boring and unoriginal. True, I could modify my minis and give them distinct paint jobs, but in the end, it's still the same army being used all over the place. I still like the Blood Angels, however, and I wanted to make an army based around them, so naturally a Successor Chapter seemed like the logical choice.

 

Granted, most other Successor Chapters were created long ago in various foundings, but I would imagine that, from time to time, special circumstances allow various things to happen that normally wouldn't otherwise, and I decided that the hope of finally being able to harness (or at the very least curtail) the wrath of the Black Rage that had plagued the chapter since it's beginnings might be cause for exception. Now, this isn't to say that they have done so; far from it; every Astartes that is created from the geneseed will still carry the flaws inherent within; but, as time progresses, it stands to reason that every once in a great while, one will be found that, for whatever reason, has managed control their actions while in the grip of the Black Rage, harnessing it's power rather than succumbing to madness. They still go on a berserk rampage; they simply have the ability to control where that rampage takes them. Lemartes managed to do it (albeit he is basically suspended in stasis when not fighting), and so did Mephiston (though he is a Librarian, so his psyker abilities probably helped), and both of those accounts exist within the C:BA. Add to that Rafen's ability to also withstand the Rage (though he probably had help from the Spear of Telesto), and it doesn't seem so absurdly impossible.

 

Therefore, I shall stand my ground concerning my chapter, and if anyone wants to "hate" me, let them "hate" all they want; their opinion is of no consequence to me, for,a s I stated previously, I'm doing this for me, not for them. :P

 

Also, might I inquire as to how to change my displayed name? I wanted something a bit more hefty than simply "Riconas".

[Octavulg]

Angels Saevine might be a pretty good name.

[NightrawenII]

Granted, most other Successor Chapters were created long ago in various foundings, but I would imagine that, from time to time, special circumstances allow various things to happen that normally wouldn't otherwise, and I decided that the hope of finally being able to harness (or at the very least curtail) the wrath of the Black Rage that had plagued the chapter since it's beginnings might be cause for exception.

One guy harnessing the Black Rage is not reason for creation of entire Chapter... the Mephiston's case is exception, not some miraculous solution and last time I checked, the Corbulo still doesn't have a clue how to cure the Curse of Sanguinius.

 

 

Me'thinks, you should re-think your Chapter idea, because right now it reeks of foul stench of Mary Sue.

[Riconas]

One guy harnessing the Black Rage is not reason for creation of entire Chapter... the Mephiston's case is exception, not some miraculous solution and last time I checked, the Corbulo still doesn't have a clue how to cure the Curse of Sanguinius.

 

 

Me'thinks, you should re-think your Chapter idea, because right now it reeks of foul stench of Mary Sue.

 

 

Mephiston wasn't the only one; Lemartes managed to resist it as well (though not to the extent that Mephiston did); and I never stated that there was some "miraculous solution" or that Corbulo had found a cure for the Curse (perhaps if you had read my previous post a bit more closely you'd realize that).

 

And, while you are entitled to your opinion, I don't see that I'm obliged to change anything for anyone, because, as I stated above, it's more for me than anyone else.

 

 

That being said, I can already see the kind "raking across the coals" I'm going to receive from the hardcore WH40K fanbase for my ideas, and I'd rather not put up with it, so perhaps I'll just trash my idea and make another Blood Angels army to join the other umpteen ones that are already out there, since I've already invested a fair amount of money on units that won't really fit in anything besides a Blood Angels or Successor Chapter army. I suppose it doesn't really matter if there are 50 Corbulos and 35 Lemartes' and 40 Mephistons out there being played; I suppose, when playing one of the main chapters, it's inevitable to end up fielding an army with the same characters as someone else at some point.

 

Perhaps I'll still choose to create a Successor Chapter, but before I can do so, I'll have to flesh out a history that won't prompt rocks through my windows or burning aquilas in my front yard.

 

Sorry for taking up forum resources with this thread; feel free to delete it at your discretion.

[NightrawenII]

And, while you are entitled to your opinion, I don't see that I'm obliged to change anything for anyone, because, as I stated above, it's more for me than anyone else.

 

Rant mode: on

 

Dear dude,

this is public internet forum. If you don't realize that, and you should really, by posting here you are giving us, other members of this internet community, full right to comment and criticise your ideas. Of course, people are going to bitch&complain because they don't like your ideas, pointing out inconsistency with official lore, correcting your grammar/spelling or disagree with your interpretation of background.

Are you obliged to listen to them? Well, no.

But what was the point in posting it here in the first place, if you don't want receive feedback?

 

Rant mode: off

[Riconas]

Nightrawen, I understand your point, and I do apologize; I was already in a bad mood when I read your post, and the way it was worded made it seem as though you were directly attacking me because my idea was stupid, and, being in a mood already, I decided to reciprocate; in hindsight, I think I understand that your goal was merely to point out that my story made absolutely no :cussing sense, and that it never would, in any universe, real or fictional, nor would be accepted by anyone in the WH40K realm. For this, I thank you, because I believe it has saved me from making a complete ass of myself (even more so than I already have) by perpetuating a story that is (apparently) wholly unbelievable. Personally, I don't really see anything wrong with it, aside from perhaps having a lame reason for the chapter being created in the first place. I was simply trying to find a way to create my own Successor Chapter to the Blood Angels, so that I could use Blood Angels resources, but have the ability to create my own characters, rules, etc. regarding the chapter, and the idea I posted above made more sense than anything else I came up with. Unfortunately, that isn't saying a lot. So, it would seem that I do need to re-think my chapter idea, as you stated, and come up with something a little more believable.

 

Perhaps I could stick with my original idea, which was to simply create another company within the Blood Angels, instead of creating an entire new chapter; of course, I'm not sure if I'm even allowed to add companies to existing chapters, and, if not, I might just have to scrap my story idea altogether and come up with something completely new.

 

However, I do still see this thread as a waste of forum resources, seeing as how the information in my first post (aside from the chapter name) is no longer relevant; therefore, I again say, feel free to delete this thread at your discretion.

 

 

EDIT: After a bit of deliberation, I've decided "to Hell with it"; I'm going to hold my ground and proceed with my original idea (although I think a bit of tweaking as to why the chapter was founded might be in order). Sure, some people might not agree with it, but it's honestly not a huge deal for me; to be honest, it's all fiction anyway; even though some of it is "official", it's still fiction. Who is to say that Dante and Mephiston didn't approach the High Lords of Terra regarding creation of another company within their chapter, and that the High Lords of Terra, not wanting to stray from the Codex Astartes (which states that all Space Marine chapters are to be divided into 10 companies), decided to compromise and allow a Successor Chapter to be created instead?

 

 

Please do delete this thread, though; I plan on revising the story a bit before posting it (and this thread seems like a bad way to start off new in the forums).

[Octavulg]

The Basic Story of All Space Marine Chapters, Which Needeth Little or No Adaptation:

 

Long ago, the High Lords created a Founding of new Space Marine chapters. They decided to make one from the [FIRST FOUNDING CHAPTER HERE]'s geneseed. Why? Because [THAT CHAPTER] are awesome. The new chapter was called the [NEW CHAPTER NAME HERE], and this is their story.

 

The above is all that is ever necessary. Indeed, I'd argue it's the best, because it puts the focus entirely on the new chapter. Write about your chapter, not about the Blood Angels.

 

* * *

 

The person to say they didn't create that company is evidently going to be me. The fact is that the inability to control the Black Rage is basically the sole defining trait of the BA. Writing about a chapter which has done so (and isn't Cursed Founding) is thus borderline Mary-Suedom. Writing about a bunch of BA who have is simply wrong since they would have been mentioned, what with the way they would completely redefine the existence of the BA. All in all, the idea is enough to sink your story's plausibility pretty much from the get-go. I am not saying you can't write it. Blah-blah, individual creativity, blah-blah, do as thou wilt. But I am saying you probably shouldn't.

 

You don't need any special reason for your chapter to exist. Plenty of chapters get by without too many weird ideas or doctrinal quirks (says the man with the secret Fallen, the eyeless Cursed Founding chapter, and the Banking and Commerce Marines). It is best to fit into the cracks of the universe wherever posssible, and simpler, smaller ideas work best for that. The less controversial your chapter, the more people will accept/enjoy it.

 

What works for a lot of people is taking some neat character trait or interesting feature of the parent chapter, and putting a twist on it. Some people draw inspiration from real-world cultures, literature, movies, previous editions of the game, what have you. Almost anything can work, so long as it's not inconsistent with the tone and details of the universe-at-large.

[Riconas]

You do make a valid point; I suppose that all I really wanted was a way to play the Blood Angels without actually playing the Blood Angels, and creation of a Successor Chapter was the only way I could see of doing that; of course, since it's a Successor Chapter, and not some random chapter created during one of the many foundings, I felt there should be some connection to the Blood Angels that would explain it's existence, and one that would explain why the chapter had never been heard of before. If the chapter were born of one of the First Founding chapters, why has it not been at the very least mentioned in official canon? Was a Successor Chapter created unbeknownst to the Blood Angels? Doubtful; so how does one create a successor chapter that has never been heard of? The only way I can think of is to have it formed either during one of the foundings, or directly from the Blood Angels themselves. If they were created during a Founding, why haven't they been heard of until now? If they were created from the Blood Angels, what reason would there be for that to occur? Are these questions that I can answer without being hunted down by the Inquisition? I would like to think so, but I can't be certain. I suppose all I can do is try it and see if it works. If not, try something else.

[Lysimachus]

since it's a Successor Chapter, and not some random chapter created during one of the many foundings

 

I'm not sure I understand you here.

 

There's no issue with them being Blood Angels Successors at all. There are around 1,000 Chapters in existence at the time of the present Imperium, all of them Successors of one of the nine Loyalist Legions, all created during one of the 26 Foundings that have occured throughout the Imperium's 10,000 year history. While the 1st (original Space Marine Legions) and 2nd (pretty well covered by GW) Foundings are out, your Chapter could have been created during any of the others and could range from being literally thousands of years old (earliest) to just a few hundred (latest). This is what every DIY Chapter creator in the Liber does!

 

That being said, it's commonly thought that the Blood Angels gene seed would be more likely to have been used during earlier Foundings rather than later, before their genetic problems (Red Thirst, Black Rage) became more evident/got worse. (Point being, from the viewpoint of the Imperium's leaders when you have the plentiful, reliable and all-round good guy :P gene seed of the Ultramarines, why use something that is flawed?)

 

I completely agree with your logic in wanting to do your own Chapter rather than just being another BA player, also the sense of being able to create your own characters rather than one of a hundred Dantes, Corbulos or Mephistons, it's why I'm a DIYer myself!

[NightrawenII]

I think, you don't understand our intentions...

 

We aren't against the successor of Blood Angels at all. In words of my esteemed brother Apothete, the aim of DIYer should be to mesh with the Universe, rahter than clash with the Universe. And we, Liberites, gather here to help each other with meshing into Universe.

The harnessing of Black Rage is example of clashing with the Universe. Having such thing as the quirk of the Chapter is too much controversial. This *IS* our problem with your ideas, not the idea of BA's successor.

[Ecritter]

You do make a valid point; I suppose that all I really wanted was a way to play the Blood Angels without actually playing the Blood Angels, and creation of a Successor Chapter was the only way I could see of doing that; of course, since it's a Successor Chapter, and not some random chapter created during one of the many foundings, I felt there should be some connection to the Blood Angels that would explain it's existence, and one that would explain why the chapter had never been heard of before.

 

First, that's one hell of a long sentence!

 

Second, you can create a Chapter that acts like the BAs without them actually being a BA successor.

[Riconas]

Thanks for the feedback, guys; I didn't mean to imply that there was a problem with them being a successor chapter; only that, for them to be a Blood Angels successor, which is what I would like, it's hard to come up with a feasible story as to their existence that fits within the canon. After thinking about it, I see that messing with the Flaw in any way is something that would directly affect the Blood Angels, as well as their successors, and as such is something that should be left to GW to work out if they so choose. At the time, however, it was the only feasible thing I could come up with. Granted, my idea was sparked upon completion of the Blood Angels novels from the Black Library, but, as has been noted in at least a few different posts I've read throughout the forums, the Black Library books are basically considered the red-headed stepchildren of WH40K canon; while they may provide interesting (and in some cases, quite enthralling) story arcs, most people within the WH40K universe seem to completely disregard the events that take place within their pages, as though they were the telling of events that never happened.

 

As for using the :tu: "Boys in Blue" as the source of the gene-seed, I'd like to stick with the Blood Angels, partly because that's the army I had originally that I lost, and partly because I've already spent near $200 on units that will really only work in a Blood Angels army or one of their successors (Blood Angels Battleforce, Furioso Dreadnought, Sanguinary Guard). I know that you were merely using the Ultramarines as an example for the gene-seed, and I agree, it makes more sense from a logical standpoint; but I would imagine that, in the WH40K universe, many events occur that tend to "fight" logic, as it were. Plus, I think it would be too easy; using the gene-seed from a chapter that has flaws makes for a more challenging creation, one that ultimately will be worth it should I be able to pull it off. Over 60% of the current chapters that exist originate from the Ultramarines gene-seed; do we really need another one?

 

And yes, I could create a chapter that is similar to the Blood Angels without actually tying them to the Blood Angels, but in my mind, that doesn't make much sense; why would there be a chapter so similar to one of the First Founding chapters that it could be mistaken as a successor chapter, but not actually be connected to them at all? It's a nice idea, but IMO creates far too much confusion (especially when my Chapter Master and his retinue are covered in Blood Angels iconography, some of which clearly shows Sanguinius or BAAL, and my Standard Bearer bears a Blood Angels standard). Granted, I could modify the models so that they don't have all of the iconography, but that seems like a lot of work that I really don't feel like doing just so that I can disassociate them with the Blood Angels, especially when I've already assembled the aforementioned models.

 

Therefore, after doing some research, I've decided upon a new course of action; apparently, the last that anyone had heard from the Lamenters (at least in "official" canon) was around the time they encountered Hive Fleet Kraken, at which point all communication was lost and the remnants of the Lamenters thought lost to the Tyranids. At last "official" count, after the Badab War, there were only about 3 companies remaining from the Lamenters, and, from what I've found, there is no "official" record of the chapter being rebuilt before being sent on their penitent crusade, during which they encountered the aforementioned hive fleet. That leads me to believe that, during that encounter, there were still only about 3 companies (that anyone knows about, at least), the bulk of which were destroyed while trying to fight off the Tyranids. Now, obviously there are people who are creating Lamenters armies, and I assume that they each have their own accounts as to what happened with the chapter, but "officially" they were thought lost; these players have most likely come up with their own stories to explain how the Lamenters returned from the brink of extinction, which, to me, is fine. With no official account of what happened to them after the hive fleet, I feel that their fate is open to speculation and interpretation (at least until GW decides to come out with something specific). It's entirely possible that there are other remnants of the Lamenters that are still cut off from the rest of the Imperium, or those that have reestablished contact, but are in dire need of rebuilding (those stories I'll leave to the respective players).

 

Thus, I have decided to base my successor chapter around part of a Lamenters company that was en route to Devlan to help their Brothers defend it, when a sudden warp storm (or at least, that's what it appeared to be) violently threw their ship off-course, soon after which the vessel was boarded by Chaos Space Marines from the Death Shadows legion (which happened to have its own encounter with a hive fleet when Behemoth devoured the planet on which their secret base was located). The Lamenters fought and killed the traitorous marines to a man, and were victorious, but not without cost; at the end of the battle, only about 1/3 of the company remained. Their ship then suddenly emerged from the warp near Badab, far from where it had entered; mere hours had seemed to have passed during their time in the warp (though, during the battle, little attention was paid to the passage of time), but when they emerged, it was 5 years later, just after the beginning of the 3rd War for Armageddon. The remaining Lamenters subsequently made contact with the Blood Angels (I have yet to hash out how or why), whereupon Dante summoned them to Baal to learn of their fate. At some point, with the remnants of the company supposedly being all that remained of the chapter, Dante and the council decide to absorb the remaining Lamenters into the Blood Angels; the Lamenters do not wish to be absorbed, however, as they feel that the delayed effects of the Flaw inherent in their gene-seed make them special, if not unique, amongst the Blood Angels and their various successors. Corbulo mirrors this sentiment (at least somewhat), and explains that, with more research into the altered gene-seed used to create the Lamenters, it was possible that a cure might eventually be found for the Flaw. With approval from the council, Corbulo contacts the Adeptus Mechanicus (or the High Lords of Terra, depending on the channels needed) to obtain samples of the altered gene-seed for study; afterwards, when Dante recalls his forces from Armageddon and summons aid from the successor chapters to defend Baal from both the Hive Fleet Leviathan and Ka'Bandha, the decision is made to contact the High Lords of Terra regarding forming the remnants of the Lamenters into a new successor chapter based off of the altered gene-seed (the use of altered gene-seed, especially one from the Cursed Founding, would likely be opposed, but both the dire situation of the Blood Angels and the existence of marines created from the gene-seed, as well as the potential to eventually remove the Flaw altogether, prove to be reason enough to allow it). Thus the Saevius Angelus was created, with Corbulo overseeing (or at least involved with) the creation process (after all, Corbulo has probably done more research on their gene-seed than anyone, with the possible exception of the Adeptus Mechanicus).

 

So, there is my revised history for the creation of my chapter; granted, it needs a bit of work, but for the most part, I don't see any reason as to why it wouldn't work. If there are reasons, I would be happy to hear them, so that I can either find a way around them, or start on something new (again). :P

 

P.S. I'm considering changing the name to Angelus Fortuna, or the Angels of Fortune, both because of the fortune of the Blood Angels to regain contact with a successor they thought lost and that carries a possible key to curing the Flaw, and also because of the sudden change in fortune for the remnants of the Lamenters (who, being part of the Cursed Founding, had almost nothing but misfortune during their entire existence) in being spared the fate of their brothers.

 

P.P.S. And yes, I know that the fluff still involves the gene-seed, but nothing is being changed; it's simply being studied and used, in hopes that maybe, in some way, something will possibly lead to a potential cure to the Flaw sometime in the eventual future. Perhaps.

 

Whether that happens, or the studies reveal anything at all, I'll leave to GW to decide; until then, the fate of the Flaw and the chapters that bear it will remain in limbo.

[CantonWC]

Over 60% of the current chapters that exist originate from the Ultramarines gene-seed; do we really need another one?

 

Well, it's the most logical choice, followed by Imperial Fists, then the others in lesser proportions.

 

And yes, I could create a chapter that is similar to the Blood Angels without actually tying them to the Blood Angels, but in my mind, that doesn't make much sense; why would there be a chapter so similar to one of the First Founding chapters that it could be mistaken as a successor chapter, but not actually be connected to them at all?

 

Close combat prowess and the angel motif thing are not exclusive to the Blood Angels.

 

especially when my Chapter Master and his retinue are covered in Blood Angels iconography, some of which clearly shows Sanguinius or BAAL, and my Standard Bearer bears a Blood Angels standard). Granted, I could modify the models so that they don't have all of the iconography, but that seems like a lot of work that I really don't feel like doing just so that I can disassociate them with the Blood Angels, especially when I've already assembled the aforementioned models.

 

I think you are falling into the trap of directly equating the tabletop rules to the fluff, which is not wise.

 

Just because I may use the Blood Angels codex, does not mean my Marines actually have to be Blood Angels. The Codex can just as easily represent Raven Guard or Night Lords.

 

Therefore, after doing some research, I've decided upon a new course of action; apparently, the last that anyone had heard from the Lamenters (at least in "official" canon) was around the time they encountered Hive Fleet Kraken, at which point all communication was lost and the remnants of the Lamenters thought lost to the Tyranids. At last "official" count, after the Badab War, there were only about 3 companies remaining from the Lamenters, and, from what I've found, there is no "official" record of the chapter being rebuilt before being sent on their penitent crusade, during which they encountered the aforementioned hive fleet. That leads me to believe that, during that encounter, there were still only about 3 companies (that anyone knows about, at least), the bulk of which were destroyed while trying to fight off the Tyranids. Now, obviously there are people who are creating Lamenters armies, and I assume that they each have their own accounts as to what happened with the chapter, but "officially" they were thought lost; these players have most likely come up with their own stories to explain how the Lamenters returned from the brink of extinction, which, to me, is fine. With no official account of what happened to them after the hive fleet, I feel that their fate is open to speculation and interpretation (at least until GW decides to come out with something specific). It's entirely possible that there are other remnants of the Lamenters that are still cut off from the rest of the Imperium, or those that have reestablished contact, but are in dire need of rebuilding (those stories I'll leave to the respective players).

 

You are free to play any official GW Chapter, but as you yourself pointed out, if GW decides to change around the fluff all your work will go down the tubes.

 

Thus, I have decided to base my successor chapter around part of a Lamenters company that was en route to Devlan to help their Brothers defend it, when a sudden warp storm (or at least, that's what it appeared to be) violently threw their ship off-course, soon after which the vessel was boarded by Chaos Space Marines from the Death Shadows legion (which happened to have its own encounter with a hive fleet when Behemoth devoured the planet on which their secret base was located). The Lamenters fought and killed the traitorous marines to a man, and were victorious, but not without cost; at the end of the battle, only about 1/3 of the company remained. Their ship then suddenly emerged from the warp near Badab, far from where it had entered; mere hours had seemed to have passed during their time in the warp (though, during the battle, little attention was paid to the passage of time), but when they emerged, it was 5 years later, just after the beginning of the 3rd War for Armageddon. The remaining Lamenters subsequently made contact with the Blood Angels (I have yet to hash out how or why), whereupon Dante summoned them to Baal to learn of their fate. At some point, with the remnants of the company supposedly being all that remained of the chapter, Dante and the council decide to absorb the remaining Lamenters into the Blood Angels; the Lamenters do not wish to be absorbed, however, as they feel that the delayed effects of the Flaw inherent in their gene-seed make them special, if not unique, amongst the Blood Angels and their various successors. Corbulo mirrors this sentiment (at least somewhat), and explains that, with more research into the altered gene-seed used to create the Lamenters, it was possible that a cure might eventually be found for the Flaw. With approval from the council, Corbulo contacts the Adeptus Mechanicus (or the High Lords of Terra, depending on the channels needed) to obtain samples of the altered gene-seed for study; afterwards, when Dante recalls his forces from Armageddon and summons aid from the successor chapters to defend Baal from both the Hive Fleet Leviathan and Ka'Bandha, the decision is made to contact the High Lords of Terra regarding forming the remnants of the Lamenters into a new successor chapter based off of the altered gene-seed (the use of altered gene-seed, especially one from the Cursed Founding, would likely be opposed, but both the dire situation of the Blood Angels and the existence of marines created from the gene-seed, as well as the potential to eventually remove the Flaw altogether, prove to be reason enough to allow it). Thus the Saevius Angelus was created, with Corbulo overseeing (or at least involved with) the creation process (after all, Corbulo has probably done more research on their gene-seed than anyone, with the possible exception of the Adeptus Mechanicus).

 

Oh boy.

 

So, they just happen to get lost in the Warp. Then they just happen to run into Chaos Marines.

 

Now, just because the Lamenters suffer horrific losses, does not mean that they will suddenly agree to form the basis of a new Chapter. They will always be Lamenters.

 

I have not read the Blood Angels books, because I have heard they are awful. But I believe all this business with the Bloodthirster and the Tyranids arriving has happened only recently. New Chapters are only founded in one of the 26 Foundings, the most recent being in 738M41.

 

On another note, you're taking two characters, Dante and Corbulo, two very high profile characters, and having them involved in the creation of a new Chapter. If they really did do this, wouldn't GW have already written about it? It is considered unwise to have official characters come in and be involved with your Chapter, why? Because people will ask if they really did do this, or if it's in character, and why it hasn't been written about before. And more often than not, using official characters is perceived as a crutch to make your Chapter arbitrarily special.

 

It seems to me like you just want the Blood Angel look but don't want anything to do with the Flaw. In other words, taking the cool bits and leaving out the baggage. Why don't you just write a Chapter with another gene-seed and explain how they arrived at being close-combat specialists, or acquiring an angel aesthetic. As I said, the Blood Angels do not have a monopoly on close combat or being all noble but cursed at the same time.

[NightrawenII]

only that, for them to be a Blood Angels successor, which is what I would like, it's hard to come up with a feasible story as to their existence that fits within the canon.

"At the beginning of M33, the Imperium was expanding its dominion. The worlds, lost to the daemon Horus and his hordes in the Heresy and the Scouring, were reconquered. The xenos, the mutant and the heretic was cleansed with Holy Wrath of Imperium's vast armies. Even in such time the demand for help of the Emperor's Finest was high, and thus the High Lords of Terra decreed the new founding of Adeptus Astartes. One of the Chapters created in such time was Saevius Angelus, bearing the gene-seed of Blood Angel, the beloved Sanguinius. With his gene-seed has come the terrible curse of Red Thirst and Black Rage, but neverthelesss the Chapter will stand proud amongst the ranks of brotherhood through the milleania to come."

 

Say again. :tu:

 

Thus, I have decided to base my successor chapter around part of a Lamenters company that was en route to Devlan to help their Brothers defend it, when a sudden warp storm (or at least, that's what it appeared to be) violently threw their ship off-course, soon after which the vessel was boarded by Chaos Space Marines from the Death Shadows legion (which happened to have its own encounter with a hive fleet when Behemoth devoured the planet on which their secret base was located). The Lamenters fought and killed the traitorous marines to a man, and were victorious, but not without cost; at the end of the battle, only about 1/3 of the company remained. Their ship then suddenly emerged from the warp near Badab, far from where it had entered; mere hours had seemed to have passed during their time in the warp (though, during the battle, little attention was paid to the passage of time), but when they emerged, it was 5 years later, just after the beginning of the 3rd War for Armageddon. The remaining Lamenters subsequently made contact with the Blood Angels (I have yet to hash out how or why), whereupon Dante summoned them to Baal to learn of their fate. At some point, with the remnants of the company supposedly being all that remained of the chapter, Dante and the council decide to absorb the remaining Lamenters into the Blood Angels; the Lamenters do not wish to be absorbed, however, as they feel that the delayed effects of the Flaw inherent in their gene-seed make them special, if not unique, amongst the Blood Angels and their various successors. Corbulo mirrors this sentiment (at least somewhat), and explains that, with more research into the altered gene-seed used to create the Lamenters, it was possible that a cure might eventually be found for the Flaw. With approval from the council, Corbulo contacts the Adeptus Mechanicus (or the High Lords of Terra, depending on the channels needed) to obtain samples of the altered gene-seed for study; afterwards, when Dante recalls his forces from Armageddon and summons aid from the successor chapters to defend Baal from both the Hive Fleet Leviathan and Ka'Bandha, the decision is made to contact the High Lords of Terra regarding forming the remnants of the Lamenters into a new successor chapter based off of the altered gene-seed (the use of altered gene-seed, especially one from the Cursed Founding, would likely be opposed, but both the dire situation of the Blood Angels and the existence of marines created from the gene-seed, as well as the potential to eventually remove the Flaw altogether, prove to be reason enough to allow it). Thus the Saevius Angelus was created, with Corbulo overseeing (or at least involved with) the creation process (after all, Corbulo has probably done more research on their gene-seed than anyone, with the possible exception of the Adeptus Mechanicus).

This is... unbelievable.

Look, the recent history of Blood Angels is, thanks to the new codex, relatively well documented. If the such thing happened, we would heard about it. Now..

 

- Chapters of Space Marines don't merge or absorb parts of other Chapter.

- The flaw in Lamenters gene-seed was not entirely cured and the messing with gene-seed has side-effect.

- Only High Lords of Terra can sanction creation of Space Marine Chapter.

[Riconas]

I think you are falling into the trap of directly equating the tabletop rules to the fluff, which is not wise.

 

Just because I may use the Blood Angels codex, does not mean my Marines actually have to be Blood Angels. The Codex can just as easily represent Raven Guard or Night Lords.

 

This seems like it would be confusing; I'm assuming you're talking about using the codex in a broad sense, i.e. only using the unit stats; otherwise, it could be taken to mean that the Raven Guard or Night Lords (to use your examples) could field Mehpiston or Cobulo or a Furioso Dreadnought, which would make no sense at all.

 

It seems to me like you just want the Blood Angel look but don't want anything to do with the Flaw. In other words, taking the cool bits and leaving out the baggage. Why don't you just write a Chapter with another gene-seed and explain how they arrived at being close-combat specialists, or acquiring an angel aesthetic. As I said, the Blood Angels do not have a monopoly on close combat or being all noble but cursed at the same time.

 

Actually, if you read it again, you'll notice that they would still have the Flaw; I was simply trying to use the fact that the Lamenters didn't suffer the effects of it until later, which might provide some clues to eventually curing the Flaw, which is something they're always thinking sbout. The fact that the effects didn't show themselves until later means they must have been on the right track when trying to work out the flaws in the gene-seed, though it obviously still needed work. As for creating a chapter from another gene-seed, I would still have to find a way to explain why they carry a Blood Angels banner and have Blood Angels heraldry all over them, which would be difficult. Not impossible, but difficult.

 

So, they just happen to get lost in the Warp. Then they just happen to run into Chaos Marines.

 

Is that really so hard to believe, especially since the Lamenters have had almost nothing but bad luck since their founding? Getting lost in the warp and being attacked by Chaos Space Marines are things that seem to happen fairly often in the WH40K universe; perhaps not together so much, but I would think that, since the Warp is where the forces of Chaos normally reside, it wouldn't be too far-fetched to say that Chaos Space Marines could appear there.

 

 

"At the beginning of M33, the Imperium was expanding its dominion. The worlds, lost to the daemon Horus and his hordes in the Heresy and the Scouring, were reconquered. The xenos, the mutant and the heretic was cleansed with Holy Wrath of Imperium's vast armies. Even in such time the demand for help of the Emperor's Finest was high, and thus the High Lords of Terra decreed the new founding of Adeptus Astartes. One of the Chapters created in such time was Saevius Angelus, bearing the gene-seed of Blood Angel, the beloved Sanguinius. With his gene-seed has come the terrible curse of Red Thirst and Black Rage, but neverthelesss the Chapter will stand proud amongst the ranks of brotherhood through the milleania to come."

 

Say again. :)

 

Is this the 3rd Founding you're speaking of? If so, why wasn't it documented that the chapter was created then? Is it really feasible to suggest that a chapter was created but not documented and not seen or heard from at all until recently? And, if it isn't the 3rd Founding, then what Founding would it be? It couldn't be a new Founding, because that hasn't happened. I suppose I could take one of the unknown Foundings and use that...

 

This is... unbelievable.

Look, the recent history of Blood Angels is, thanks to the new codex, relatively well documented. If the such thing happened, we would heard about it. Now..

 

- Chapters of Space Marines don't merge or absorb parts of other Chapter.

- The flaw in Lamenters gene-seed was not entirely cured and the messing with gene-seed has side-effect.

- Only High Lords of Terra can sanction creation of Space Marine Chapter.

 

Well, I've never read anywhere that they don't absorb parts of another chapter, so I didn't know that; I know that the Lamenters gene-seed wasn't entirely cured, but what is the side effect you speak of? Also, I mentioned that they had to speak with the High Lords of Terra before creating the chapter to gain approval; I didn't know they couldn't do that either. I guess I just don't have access to as much source material as you guys do.

 

Ok, well, I can see your respective points; I suppose I have 2 options: either create everything about their history from scratch, or just play Blood Angels with black armor. Though, I get the feeling that Blood Angels wearing black armor and not being in the death company would be unacceptable as well, so I guess I had better start using my imagination. :P Thanks again for the feedback.

[Octavulg]

We know 1000 Space Marine chapters have been created. We've heard of maybe a hundred. So it's very plausible for there to be chapters we've never heard of who are nonetheless old and famous.

 

Creating a chapter's history from scratch is rrelatively easy, actually. You'd be surprised.

 

In regards to the merging chapters aspect - I vaguely remember some text in the 3e rulebook which supported it. However, I find it very difficult to conceive of circumstances which would prompt it, or of chapters being particularly interested in doing it.

[NightrawenII]

Is this the 3rd Founding you're speaking of? If so, why wasn't it documented that the chapter was created then? Is it really feasible to suggest that a chapter was created but not documented and not seen or heard from at all until recently? And, if it isn't the 3rd Founding, then what Founding would it be? It couldn't be a new Founding, because that hasn't happened. I suppose I could take one of the unknown Foundings and use that...

There was 26 Foundings of Space Marine Chapters. There is no record or document with details of these. Why? Because it was intentionaly left vague for players to use. You are free to use any of these Foundings.

In the same way, more than 1000 SM Chapters have been created during the existence of Imperium. Around hundred is known, but most of them is just colour scheme and name in the Codex or on GW's site, only very tiny bit of the Chapters is actually well documented.

 

Second, this is universe full of blank and black places. These are left here by GW for players to expand and explore. There was not mention of Saevius Angelus before. So what?!?! You are the Creator and Author, it's up to YOU to tell us their story, it's up to YOU to make them famous and well-known.

 

I guess I just don't have access to as much source material as you guys do.

Looky here, here and here. If you have some additional questions, jusk ask and thou shall receive.

 

... create everything about their history from scratch

... and What do you think we are doing here in Liber? ;) :D

The Liber Honouros Index I have linked (the pictures are click-able B) ) is full of such Chapters.

[Riconas]

Ok, let's see how this works:

 

---

 

Blood Wings

 

 

Created during the 22nd Founding, using the original, unaltered Blood Angels gene-seed (using the same gene-seed as the Lamenters was considered, due to the delayed effects of the Flaw, but was ultimately decided against with the samples from the previous founding being deemed untrustworthy), the Blood Wings are a fleet-based chapter, having no homeworld to call their own (though they take every opportunity to visit Baal and its moons); their Fortress-Monastery is the battle barge Orbis Fatum, one of the most heavily-armed battle barges in the Astartes fleets. Led by Chapter Master Xander Riconas, the Blood Wings take very much after their parent chapter in being an assault-oriented chapter; they do, however, also enjoy copious amounts of firepower, so it is rather common to see their Assault squads backed up by a fairly large number of Tactical and/or Devastator squads, or Furioso Dreadnoughts supported by a number of Predator tanks (the Baal variant being favored heavily). Terminator squads are often seen paired with Assault Terminator squads, swarming the enemy with deadly bolter and assault cannon fire while their brothers move in and decimate them in melee combat. Another trait they share with their parent chapter, as well as their fellow Successor chapters (including the seemingly-resistant Lamenters), is the Flaw, consisting of the Red Thirst and the Black Rage. As the rest of their brother-chapters, the Blood Wings have a Death Company, though, unlike the rest of the chapters, it is possible (though very, VERY rare) to see a few members of the Death Company clad in Terminator armour; this is only done when a veteran marine clad in Terminator armor succumbs to the Black Rage, mainly because, for some unknown reason, veterans that succumb to the Black Rage do so at an increased rate, making them extremely violent and dangerous much sooner, and thus making it nigh impossible to remove their armor (at least without substantial loss of servitors). Because of this, rather than replacing the armour with standard Power Armour, as is done in most other cases, the Terminator's weaponry is removed, and the armour is fitted with Lightning Claws (this is done to maximize the efficiency of their insanely ravenous melee attacks). Because of the rarity of Terminator armour, it is fortunate that this hardly ever occurs, the two closest known incidents occuring within 420 years of each other.

 

 

Being a fleet-based chapter, the Blood Wings are constantly on the move, going where the action is and where they are needed, and hardly ever fighting in the same region twice (at least within a small amount of time). One of their most famous (or infamous,a s considered by some within the Imperium) battles was that of Heros VII, where they responded to what they thought was an Imperial distress beacon; it in fact turned out to be a trap set by forces of the Void Callers, a traitorous legion loyal to the Chaos god Tzeentch. While the landing forces engaged the enemy on the ground, a Chaos Space Marine fleet emerged from the warp practically on top of the Blood Wings fleet and engaged them in an orbital battle. Though it was a close and hard-fought victory, the forces of the Blood Wings emerged triumphant, and all but obliterated the forces of the Void Callers (a small contingent managed to disappear back into the warp and escape).

 

 

All records pertaining to the Blood Wings were mysteriously lost not long after their creation, thus resulting in them being a bit of a mystery themselves; many in the Imperium never know of their existence until they suddenly appear to save them from whatever doom they may be facing. Fortunately, they are at least known amongst the Astartes (or at least most of them), and are well-known amongst their parent chapter and brother-chapters, the Blood Angels and their successors, though, with them moving about the galaxy, it is rare that they encounter their brother-chapters in battle. The latest known occurrence of this being in 999.M41 when Dante sent word to the successor chapters to make haste to Baal in order to help defend against the ever-growing threat posed by both the Hive Fleet Leviathan and the daemon Ka'Bandha.

 

---

 

This was just a quick write-up; I'll expand and revise it later (if it passes inspection). The only thing I can think of that might cause some wrinkled noses is the Death Company Terminator thing, but it's more of a fluff thing than a rules thing. I would imagine that, with there being 1000+ Space Marine chapters in existence, at least 1 of them is bound to have an issue where they have to send their prized Terminator armour into battle knowing that it will almost certainly be destroyed, or at least damaged beyond repair. I also thought it might be neat to work the Flaw and its effects into the reason that this might happen, because I would imagine that something like that could happen, with how much the Rage affects the mind of the person and their ability to control their actions, as well as how much it increases their strength (and I would imagine that a veteran that's been wearing Terminator armour for some time would already be a bit stronger). As for using that in-game, it likely wouldn't happen, unless I could find some loophole, or my opponent agreed out of curiosity. But it's a fun thought. ^_^ The part about the squads and the firepower is connected to my in-game army, however, as that's how I plan to build it up.

[NightrawenII]

Aha! Another attempt, let me see...

 

Created during the 22nd Founding, using the original, unaltered Blood Angels gene-seed (using the same gene-seed as the Lamenters was considered, due to the delayed effects of the Flaw, but was ultimately decided against with the samples from the previous founding being deemed untrustworthy)

- The entire purpose of Lamenters was to cure the Curse of Sanguinius, this is because the gene-seed of BA is far from being pure and the entire gene-line is plagued by madness. Tell me, why would High Lords of Terra use the flawed gene-seed and thus condemning the whole Chapter to the same fate? Use some older founding, maybe 10th, when the Curse was not so famous.

 

Led by Chapter Master Xander Riconas, the Blood Wings take very much after their parent chapter in being an assault-oriented chapter; they do, however, also enjoy copious amounts of firepower, so it is rather common to see their Assault squads backed up by a fairly large number of Tactical and/or Devastator squads, or Furioso Dreadnoughts supported by a number of Predator tanks (the Baal variant being favored heavily). Terminator squads are often seen paired with Assault Terminator squads, swarming the enemy with deadly bolter and assault cannon fire while their brothers move in and decimate them in melee combat.

- How is this different from BA's combat doctrines? Focus on differences, not similarities.

- Tell us more about their behaviour in combat, prefered tactic(s) and war-philosophy.

 

Being a fleet-based chapter, the Blood Wings are constantly on the move, going where the action is and where they are needed, and hardly ever fighting in the same region twice (at least within a small amount of time). One of their most famous (or infamous,a s considered by some within the Imperium) battles was that of Heros VII, where they responded to what they thought was an Imperial distress beacon; it in fact turned out to be a trap set by forces of the Void Callers, a traitorous legion loyal to the Chaos god Tzeentch. While the landing forces engaged the enemy on the ground, a Chaos Space Marine fleet emerged from the warp practically on top of the Blood Wings fleet and engaged them in an orbital battle. Though it was a close and hard-fought victory, the forces of the Blood Wings emerged triumphant, and all but obliterated the forces of the Void Callers (a small contingent managed to disappear back into the warp and escape).

- The purpose of battle in the IA is to draw the attention of the reader on some interesting or important trait(s). Or give your Chapter some kind of motivation or urge. If this battle follows this way of thoughts and it's not just some kind of cameo to show off the awesomeness of your marines, then it's not very clear.

 

All records pertaining to the Blood Wings were mysteriously lost not long after their creation, thus resulting in them being a bit of a mystery themselves; many in the Imperium never know of their existence...

- You are just one Chapter in the thousand. In the Imperium of million worlds.

- Second, Do you have any reason for this 'mysterious disappearance'? Otherwise it feels rather unnecessary....

 

Well, in my humble opinion the DIY article should be answering the question of "Who are these guys?" and I'm missing this answer somewhat in the article.

[Riconas]

Tell me, why would High Lords of Terra use the flawed gene-seed and thus condemning the whole Chapter to the same fate?

 

Well, I read somewhere that, because of what happened to each of the chapters during the 21st Founding, they decided against ever using those gene-seeds again.

 

How is this different from BA's combat doctrines? Focus on differences, not similarities.

 

Well, they are a Blood Angels successor, so I figured it might make sense for them to have some similarity; however, as far as I know, the Blood Angels don't really use an over-abundance of firepower, preferring instead to focus more on close combat, which is where the difference was (or so I thought).

 

- The purpose of battle in the IA is to draw the attention of the reader on some interesting or important trait(s). Or give your Chapter some kind of motivation or urge. If this battle follows this way of thoughts and it's not just some kind of cameo to show off the awesomeness of your marines, then it's not very clear.

 

As I stated before, this was just a quick write-up; I plan to expand on the battle later when I do the actual IA and actually give it some content. I don't see the point in spending hours writing something up when someone might come along and say "that's stupid, and makes no sense", after which I'll just have to scrap it and start over anyway. I'd rather know that I'm headed in the right direction before committing more time and effort to it.

 

- You are just one Chapter in the thousand. In the Imperium of million worlds.

- Second, Do you have any reason for this 'mysterious disappearance'? Otherwise it feels rather unnecessary....

 

Exactly; and, being only one chapter in a thousand, I don't see why it's completely impossible that strange things happen to them; it's not like every chapter is going to have the same experiences. As for the mysterious disappearance of the records, I thought that might explain why we haven't heard anything about them until now. Granted, as you stated, they are only one chapter, but you would still think that something would have been heard about them, or that someone would have some sort of account of encountering them at some point. I can't find any written record pertaining to them anywhere. And I don't see why it's unfeasible that records were lost somehow; that seems to be the explanation for many things, including why many of the Foundings are unknown (as far as the dates, chapters created, etc.)

 

Well, in my humble opinion the DIY article should be answering the question of "Who are these guys?" and I'm missing this answer somewhat in the article.

 

Again, this was only a quick write-up; I plan to create a more detailed IA once I know that it isn't a complete waste of time.

[NightrawenII]

Exactly; and, being only one chapter in a thousand, I don't see why it's completely impossible that strange things happen to them; it's not like every chapter is going to have the same experiences. As for the mysterious disappearance of the records, I thought that might explain why we haven't heard anything about them until now. Granted, as you stated, they are only one chapter, but you would still think that something would have been heard about them, or that someone would have some sort of account of encountering them at some point. I can't find any written record pertaining to them anywhere. And I don't see why it's unfeasible that records were lost somehow; that seems to be the explanation for many things, including why many of the Foundings are unknown (as far as the dates, chapters created, etc.)

I give up, this is like talking with oak.

[Whitefireinferno]

Exactly; and, being only one chapter in a thousand, I don't see why it's completely impossible that strange things happen to them; it's not like every chapter is going to have the same experiences. As for the mysterious disappearance of the records, I thought that might explain why we haven't heard anything about them until now. Granted, as you stated, they are only one chapter, but you would still think that something would have been heard about them, or that someone would have some sort of account of encountering them at some point. I can't find any written record pertaining to them anywhere. And I don't see why it's unfeasible that records were lost somehow; that seems to be the explanation for many things, including why many of the Foundings are unknown (as far as the dates, chapters created, etc.)

 

I hear ya NightrawenII

 

To Riconas the Idea of this Board is to make a story for your chapter so they have some depth Just mock up some Faux campaign or Battle they took part of Give it a date after your chosen founding and Boom your chapter has improved. I have kept tabs on this IA but from the start it was more of a I want BA without them having what makes Us Angels Awesome and that is the whole we are cursed no matter what the only thing that is going to change this is if our Primarch walks with us once again but sadly he will not.

 

In fact I will thank you because I had a idea for my Short Story I have had in my head for a while But yeah you should quit fighting what NightrawenII says for he speaks the Truth and such

[CantonWC]

Hello

 

I have come back. Will have to catch up.

 

This seems like it would be confusing; I'm assuming you're talking about using the codex in a broad sense, i.e. only using the unit stats; otherwise, it could be taken to mean that the Raven Guard or Night Lords (to use your examples) could field Mehpiston or Cobulo or a Furioso Dreadnought, which would make no sense at all.

 

Does Character A always have to equate to Character A? A character can "count as" someone else.

 

Actually, if you read it again, you'll notice that they would still have the Flaw; I was simply trying to use the fact that the Lamenters didn't suffer the effects of it until later, which might provide some clues to eventually curing the Flaw, which is something they're always thinking sbout. The fact that the effects didn't show themselves until later means they must have been on the right track when trying to work out the flaws in the gene-seed, though it obviously still needed work. As for creating a chapter from another gene-seed, I would still have to find a way to explain why they carry a Blood Angels banner and have Blood Angels heraldry all over them, which would be difficult. Not impossible, but difficult.

 

Again... don't think that fluff must correspond directly to rules. Just saying, is all. because you probably don't want to say that your Marines count as something else. If they are Blood Angels, then that's what they are.

 

Is that really so hard to believe, especially since the Lamenters have had almost nothing but bad luck since their founding? Getting lost in the warp and being attacked by Chaos Space Marines are things that seem to happen fairly often in the WH40K universe; perhaps not together so much, but I would think that, since the Warp is where the forces of Chaos normally reside, it wouldn't be too far-fetched to say that Chaos Space Marines could appear there.

 

sorry, knee-jerk. Lost in the Warp is a four letter word around these parts.

 

Will make some edits ASAP when I read through the latest developments.

 

CWC