Multiple combats discussion

[Seahawk]

Here's a situation that occurred in last night's game between my friends. It was IG vs SW.

 

Straken's command squad charged a Wolfguard with Logan. A pile of Ogryns also charged. The result was killing off the Wolfguard while suffering some casualties. They held. On the SW turn, a pack of Grey Hunters charged the Command Squad, not touching the Ogryns at all due to the distance.

 

In the ensuing combat, Logan dies but the command squad is reduced to Straken and a dude. The IG fail the combat.

 

Now, we knew Straken had to take fearless saves because he was still engaged. The question is, what happens to the Ogryns? The only enemy models they were engaged with are now dead, since they were never touched by the Grey Hunters. Are they out of the combat now? I may be thinking of a previous edition where the Ogryns were now simply disengaged, but I don't have my 4th and 3rd BRB's on hand to check.

 

Here are the relevant rules we could come up with:

 

"Units that have one or more models in base contact with enemies are said to be 'locked in combat.'" (p 35)

--> The Ogryns were locked/engaged in combat at the beginning of the combat (with Logan), but not at the end.

 

"At the end of a combat, if a unit's opponents are all either destroyed or falling back, so that the victorious unit is no longer locked in combat with any enemy, they may consolidate." (p 40)

--> The Ogryns, as a unit, is no longer locked with their enemy as they are all destroyed.

 

"Every unit on the losing side has to check their Morale." (p 41)

--> This seems to say the Ogryns have to check Morale. If they pass, can they just consolidate away?

 

"Remember that winning units can only sweeping advance if all the units they were locked with fall back or are wiped out in the fight."

--> Sidebar: If Logan had lived but fled for some reason, this says the Ogryns can now chase him as they were only locked with him and not the Grey Hunters, right? This also seems to say that being Locked only means the unit was actually base-to-base with, and not say that they are just automatically locked with all units in a multiple combat (supported by the first quote).

 

"After assault resolution, all units that were involved in that multiple combat must make a pile-in move towards enemies that fought in that combat."

--> Since he didn't flee though and instead just died, I think this says the Ogryns must now pile in to the Grey Hunters, despite having never actually been in combat with them except via the "multiple combats" rule.

[Grimtooth]

The grey hunters joined the combat thus became part of it. It was all one big combat and your side lost. It doesn't matter if the Ogryns werenot in base to base, they were still part of the combat and would have to test for losing combat.

[Seahawk]

Okay, so they test for losing the combat.

 

Are they free to move away?

[JamesI]

Okay, so they test for losing the combat.

 

Are they free to move away?

If they don't flee, then they have to try to pile in. If they can't reach base after both sides pile in, then they are free to move away.

[Seahawk]

What if Logan had fled? The rules say the Ogryns are only locked with him...right?

[Grimtooth]

No, it is all one big combat. The Grey Hunters were still there and would have had to test for losing combat as well. If Logan fled and the Grey Hunters did not, the Ogryns are still on close combat.

[thade]

Yep, this is a common point of confusion with multiple assaults. To the letter of the rules, the others here have the right of it: once a unit is in a combat, it's in that combat until it wins, dies, flees, or can't reach with any of its models during a Pile In!

[Seahawk]

So, are the Ogryns Locked with just Logan, or Locked with everybody? The first line I put up says they are locked with just Logan, as they are only BTB with him despite it being a multiple assault.

[Iron Father Rik]

"After assault resolution, all units that were involved in that multiple combat must make a pile-in move towards enemies that fought in that combat."

--> Since he didn't flee though and instead just died, I think this says the Ogryns must now pile in to the Grey Hunters, despite having never actually been in combat with them except via the "multiple combats" rule.

 

From what I can gather, this was the crux of the situation. In short you were right, the Ogryns must try to pile in towards the Grey Hunters. As others have said, the Grey Hunters were part of the big combat, even if they didn't technically fight the Ogryns, and so were the Ogryns part of the same big scrap. Therefore the Ogryns pile in towards the Grey Hunters, and help out Straken fight them off (or, from the point of view of this forum, die horribly to the glorious Astartes!)

 

Yep, this is a common point of confusion with multiple assaults. To the letter of the rules, the others here have the right of it: once a unit is in a combat, it's in that combat until it wins, dies, flees, or can't reach with any of its models during a Pile In!

 

The Ogryns are locked with everyone who was part of that single, big combat, regardless of who they actually fought.

 

The first line you put up is from the section of the rules describing single combat, which assumes one unit vs one unit. The last three lines you put up are from the "multiple combat" section and thus take precedence, since this is a multiple combat.

[Seahawk]

(or, from the point of view of this forum, die horribly to the glorious Astartes!)

Ha, that's exactly what happened. In the next round, the Grey Hunters squished a Lord commissar with a power fist while losing three in return. Straken failed his armor save on a 2 and died (he had only 1 wound left) and the Orgyns rolled an 11. The lone power fisting Grey Hunter proceeded to chase them down...he single-handedly killed every single model in the IG army that had CC potential! That was a brutal game changer, and it was all due to Straken failing his single 3+ armor...

[Iron Father Rik]

it was all due to Straken failing his single 3+ armor...

 

See, that's why people should leave power armour to the astartes!

 

(I know Straken doesn't wear power armour, before anyone points that out, but he has a 3+ save so he might as well do.)

[Wildfire]

So, are the Ogryns Locked with just Logan, or Locked with everybody? The first line I put up says they are locked with just Logan, as they are only BTB with him despite it being a multiple assault.

 

Look at it this way: you're not locked with specific units within a combat, you're locked in the combat as a whole. Does that help?