marine77 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I am bit unclear about how you would combat squad a deepstriking jumper unit. I have done some reading lately that makes it sound like it is possible to jump a unit all in together on a single reserve roll and the split them when they hit the table. I have always thought that they came on as two separate squads. If they do come on as a single squad for reserve roll purposes, how do you determine where to deploy them on the board? Can someone clear this up for me a bit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 The decision to combat squad reserves is made after the reserve roll is passed. Then they are split into 2 units and legally placed on the table (exception, units in a drop pod who combat squad after they disembark from the drop pod) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2678356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhx711 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 James1 - So the 10 man squad makes 1 reserve roll then is combat squaded before they touch down? Any rule/rules to cite on this? Not that I don't beilieve you but It'd be nice to know what to show oppoent if a question arises. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2678426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 James1 - So the 10 man squad makes 1 reserve roll then is combat squaded before they touch down? Any rule/rules to cite on this? Not that I don't beilieve you but It'd be nice to know what to show oppoent if a question arises. The rule you would be looking for is the combat squad special rule on page 23 of our codex. Specificly where it says that the decision to split into combat squads is made when the unit is deployed. Some argue that you can't split after having been in reserve due to the wording of the most recent FAQ update. However the general concensus seems to be that you can decide to combat squad immediately after a successful reserve roll. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2678549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyto Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 According to the 4 GW stores around Maryland, you can not combat squad a unit that is placed in reserves. Period. This is the FAQ: A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2678644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Cyto that is completely out of context you can't do that as its an invalid argument that way. The FAQ does not adress wether a unit can combat squad from reserves that is covered by the Combat sqaud rule that states you choose when the iunit is deployed and the reserve rule that states the unit is in reserve unilt it is the deployed....notice the use of the same wording. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2678663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Could one choose to combat squad when in reserve, before the FAQ? I'm only asking because the rule applies to units only when deployed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2678676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 According to the 4 GW stores around Maryland, you can not combat squad a unit that is placed in reserves. Period. This is the FAQ: A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads. I will say this is also the interpretation at my local store. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2678678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Man, I'm glad I don't play at stores. As I understand it, FAQs don't change rules, but errata does. If this is a FAQ, then I believe the response doesn't know the rules from the main rulebook and Codex: Blood Angels. If it is errata, so be it. I'm glad the rest of my group thinks the same. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2678717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDante Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I can see how people get that FAQ wrong the simple answer is you can not combat squad half of a unit then place the other half in reserve. For example I can not deploy half a tac squad before the game starts and the reserve the other half with their razor back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2678755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judaz Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I can see how people get that FAQ wrong the simple answer is you can not combat squad half of a unit then place the other half in reserve. For example I can not deploy half a tac squad before the game starts and the reserve the other half with their razor back. I don't understand how anyone can interpret the FAQ wrong. It clearly states that you can't break down squads in reserve into combat squads. But it doesn't say anything about combat squadding when you deploy the squad. Hold in reserve and deploying a squad is two totally different things. Roll for reserve once per squad, deploy the squad, combat squad if you want to, and then continue with your turn. Quite simple. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2678820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I agree with James' assessment. The answer in the FAQ was poorly worded. Personally I don't combat squad jump infantry held in reserve just to avoid the potential for arguments. Hopefully GW will re address this issue and provide some clarity. G :teehee: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2678827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DexC Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Well, they sort of have. In this thread: "The Grand Tournament (GW UK) FAQ now reads: Q. 65. When do squads count as being deployed for the purposes of deciding whether or not to split units into combat squads? Players must declare if a unit is splitting into combat squads when it does one of the following: 1. When it is deployed on the board during set up. 2. When it moves onto the board on turn 1 in the Dawn of War scenario. 3. When you successfully roll to bring it on the board from reserves, deepstriking or outflanking. 4. When it disembarks from a Drop Pod. Please remember that in cases 1,2 & 3, as per the official GW FAQ’s, you may not be split into a combat squad and have both squads inside the same transport." Mezkh also offers a very good summary of the rule in that thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2678944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 The interpretation down here is as follows. You roll ONCE for the deepstriking squad. You place that one squad. Once it touches down, you then separate it into combat squads. If you follow those steps, you break no rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2679044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebsolom Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I agree with Morticon, DexC and Judaz, this is how we play it in my area. It prevents you from combat squadding a unit in reserve and deploying in two different locations (a combat squad on each flank for example). When the squad is deployed on the table via deepstrike then it is allowed to be broken down into combat squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2679066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marine77 Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 Call me thick or slow then, but could someone show a diagram and explain a scenario for me? I even have one. I want to put dante and a sanguinary priest into a unit of ten vanguard vets. I deepstrike the whole thing, but I want to use dante's accuracy rule to get them on the board without scattering, then I want to combat squad so half of the vets can HI into a unit. Does this work? If so, can someone show me? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2679093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Marine, it would follow that if you had Dante and whoever else in the original squad, they would come down and at the end of movement ala IC rules, you would declare which squad they are part of. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2679094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fancy Pants Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 According to the 4 GW stores around Maryland, you can not combat squad a unit that is placed in reserves. Period. This is the FAQ: A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads. I don't understand how people are still confused about this... The FAQ clarifies that you cannot CS while "placed in reserve". This is in accordance with the rule in the book that says you CS when you "deploy". "Placed in reserve" =/= "Deployed". While in reserve = No CS "Deploying" from reserve = CS Pretty simple and completely follows the RAW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2679112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Aye. It's as it reads. The problem is a well integrated assumption in player group mind-sets. Hard to argue against. "I will deploy this squad into reserve" said or thought a thousand times will convince anyone eventually that what they're doing is deploying... when it plainly, with a fresh reading of the rules, says this is not the case... and every so often another rule similar will use the two words, reserve and deploy in or near the same sentence. The codex is guilty of it at least once. The SR stuff has a mention I think in reference to skies of blood. As for Marine77's request... Dante priest 10VV 1 reserve roll made... DEPLOY! squad one: you place these guys where you like because of Dante's rule. No HI possible on this squad as it doesn't work with ICs attached. Dante, priest and 5 VV (you choose which VV models after reserve roll is made, this is a good moment to put any with shooty weapons here) squad two: place centre model and roll for scatter. 5 VV (make them choppy versus infantry, thumpy versus armour etc) The two squads, according to the rules, can be anywhere on the table as per Dante & regular DoA DS rules. They are, as per C:BA Combat Squad rules, separate units in all respects from that moment. (DEPLOYMENT! NOT BEING PLACED IN RESERVES!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2679143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Hope this doesnt sound to stupid, but how far apart can the squads be max? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2679167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
grazer Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 There seems to be a bit of a disconnect happening here in regards to where the 2 combat squads can be placed after the single reserves roll is made. Morticon's explanation has them deploying as one squad, ie one bunch of marines who are separate squads in one concentric circle. The other deployment that's come up is that of rolling once for the squad and then placing the 2 halves in separate areas of the board. I've always played the latter case, so I'm interested in know how Mort's method works in regards to the Dante + Priest + VV example. I believe that with Mort's method one roll is made, one model is placed, doesn't scatter, then the rest of the models circle the initial model. At that point the combat squad without the ICs can Heroically Intervene and the other 7 can shoot or run? Seems like an amazing "use" for Dante's special rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2679199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marine77 Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 grazer explains it well. That is exactly why I want to know how it would work. I hate being the cheesy player, but it seems like an amazing use for the rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2679235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 surely they have to deepstrike the 2 squads seperately, as if they deepstrike together in the one squad, then they have to be the same unit otherwise they break the no 2 units within 1 inch rule... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2679254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
grazer Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 surely they have to deepstrike the 2 squads seperately, as if they deepstrike together in the one squad, then they have to be the same unit otherwise they break the no 2 units within 1 inch rule... I was concerned about that as well and started second guessing thinking that maybe that only applied to enemy units, but haven't checked the rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2679266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fury Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Rulebook page 94 paragraph 3: "players may choose not to deploy one or more units in their army and instead leave them in reserves"reserves =/= deployed BA:Codex page 23 Combat squads: tells you everything else you need to know, including that the two squads may be deployed in "seperate locations", with no restrictions on distance apart. The FAQ did not change any rules. It simply clarified that you cannot CS a squad that is currently being held in reserves, that's it. And because you must wait until deployment to CS, you cannot mount half the squad in a transport, and cannot make half arrive via DS and the other half from the board edge, or half out-flanking and not the other half, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/223984-jump-packs-deepstrike-and-combat-squaddin-oh-my/#findComment-2679290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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