Eorek Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I just got beaten by a imperial fist player using shrike + lysander to infiltrate and get fleet on a 10 man strong assault terminator unit in a 1500 tournament... Other than that he had 2 squads tac marines with las cannons, a ironclad dread, + another 5 man stormshield termies. I played with : mephiston Honour guard with 3 meltas 2 assault squads(10 marines) with 2 melta + PF a 6 man death company with PF With a chaplain (in raven and a DC dread with talons (in raven a storm raven with TLLC, TL-Multimelta, EA My initial plan was to avoid that unit and kill off the rest of his army (objective: killpoints) But avoiding fleeting terminators, 2 combat monster special characters was easier said than done... so basically... What would you guys use to handle such a threat and still being competative against other armies? units, lots of Dakka? For the record... I lost 8-5 that game Also... not sure if I should post this in army lists or the blood angels forum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDante Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Any time I play against someone who has outflank I always drive right up the middle forcing his outflankers to walk a long way to get me. once they hit the board that would be a great time to only move the storm raven 6" or less and fire everything at them 4 blood strike missiles S8 AP1, tl las can, tl MM and anything else. if you are rolling avg you should kill 3-4 termies. If you focus your fire you should kill them off in 2-3 rounds. meanwhile the rest of your army has destroyed his troop choices and rhinos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Focus on killing his two troops in objective based games. In killpoint missions you are set still faster. G :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrolytes Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 You can have Shrike and Lysander in a 1500 pt army? I did not know this o.o I thought it was 1 HQ in a 1500 (or thats the norm from what i have seen!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabgoi Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Should just be a matter of force organization. 1500 points is one force org chart, so 2 HQs. 3rd edition it was pretty standard for BA players to run a pair of HQs at 1,000 points. Someone starts fielding 3, start to worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d503 Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Omg that's hilarious. 10 fleeting, infiltrating assault terminators. Ouch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Surely if Lysander is in the squad then the unit cant infiltrate? Shrike wouldnt confer the ability to another independant character would he? I know it says for models in your squad but he's an Imperial fist for the love of Christ. How can a terminator armour clad, yellow nutjob infiltrate anything?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 You literally have to avoid where possible, and feed them units when you can't. Work your way through the rest of the army, then put everything you have left into combat with his deathstar unit because even then you will have only got 4 kill points. Start everything on the board and as the earlier poster said, push forwards up the middle because he has almost no ranged threat whatsoever. Then work your way through the small THammer squad with RAS and DC, the IronClad gets slagged with Meltaguns and then send your RAS and DC after his Tacticals. Whatever you have left should be enough to beat his 10 Terminators and Characters in combat. It doesn't seem very fun at 1500pts though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Surely if Lysander is in the squad then the unit cant infiltrate? Shrike wouldnt confer the ability to another independant character would he? I know it says for models in your squad but he's an Imperial fist for the love of Christ. How can a terminator armour clad, yellow nutjob infiltrate anything?! Shrike gives the unit hes with infiltrate.. if another Ic joins the unit (bfore the game) he gets it too.. the thing about infiltrating termies, is they cant do anything for a turn.. you get a turn of shooting the beejeebuz out of this one unit (half his army).. also given the damage output of this load out, anything it touches dies.. so feed it a unit per turn and smash it in the shooting phase. also if he charges most of his attacks are at I1, which means every turn he haemorages troops to higher I attacks.. even termies roll ones every now and then.. if he charges a unit with a fist in, make sure that fist takes out shrike first and youve essentially cornered him at I1.. im not sure what the BA dex has, but null zone is a really cool power for C:SM, in this game it will shine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAGABOND Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I would possibly suggest adding power weapons to your Death Company and firing heavy weapons at them to whittle them down and move in for the kill with Mephiston nd other units. Make sure to go for his scoring units first of all and then concentrate on attacking Shrike's squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Rock and a hard place my man. Firstly, get yourself a plasma cannon on the Raven. I run the TLLC myself, but with that amount of termy awfulness about, id def. switch to plasma. Then, consider losing the HG and rocking with a bigger DC with PWs as suggested and then a Priest with pack/pw. Youre still in for a very tough ride though!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Mike Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Table the rest of the army 1-3 turns, then just "kite" (dont get into combat with) this huge unit. At most they have 6"+D6" (if he chose to give fleet to his army). So stay at least 13" away from this big unit and shoot them up until the game ends. I love seeing people put units like this on the table, because all our fast vehicles and infantry make it impossible for this unit to get into combat (if you play it right, of course). This is one of the many reasons I love my BA =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baba Lem Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Thirty men DC, go. Lol. Lysander is like a big chunk in that unit too with his 3++ and Eternal Warrior. A little trick you could try. Maneuver the dread, when you charge, so that he gets in b2b with Shrike. The Shadow Captain will have a hard time scratching it, even with his rending Lightning Claws. That doesn't solve the problem of the unit of course, and some thunderhammers are bound to strike on the dread - but it'd pretty much nullify Shrike's own effect. Lysander and the termies, you just have to kill. Big DC and maybe another 10 guy Assault Squad with a Libby for rage. Furious Charge, of course. But if you're not prepared for it... ouch. Lol. I'd hate to lose a tourney game to such a list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 The problem is, avoiding his army won't work for 3 turns and you can theoretically see yourself down on Kill Points even after you wipe out the rest of his force. Remember the unit has a maximum charge range of 18 inches with Fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMoon Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 thats really hard to do some times. ive played against that and when he can be 18 inches away with an infiltrate. so he moves 6 and if he rolls a 6 on his fleet roll he can charge the first turn if he gets it. hard to stay away from it and lord forbid he can hide the unit within 12...seen it done...its ruff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 thats really hard to do some times. ive played against that and when he can be 18 inches away with an infiltrate. so he moves 6 and if he rolls a 6 on his fleet roll he can charge the first turn if he gets it. hard to stay away from it and lord forbid he can hide the unit within 12...seen it done...its ruff. Actually - a first turn charge is impossible form 18" away, because you must be more than 18" away. If there is terrain around that he can hide 11 terminators and a JP marine behind without you being able to see them, and you havent allowed for him deploying there wiht them - then you've shot yourself in the foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 well I tried to bait him into deploying that terminator deathstar in my deployment by deploying mephiston behind a piece of impassable terrain... I deepstriked my assault marines to kill off his tac marines... but he had a 5 man strong terminator squad in his deployment aswell... and du to my honour guardfailing to deepstrike he placed them in the middle of the board, Which lead to his termies moving 6 through terrain, 6 inches fleet, 6 inches charge and 6 after they had wiped my honour guards... So they caught up with my army after 1 round xD...abit unlucky yea... But I still woudnlt have been able to kill the rest of his army even if he hadn't made that move... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Yorei Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 You can have Shrike and Lysander in a 1500 pt army? I did not know this o.o I thought it was 1 HQ in a 1500 (or thats the norm from what i have seen!) having both should not matter. their abilities cannot both be used in the same army. the player has to choose one or the other. DISREGARD. im hopped up on meds. car accident last week. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDante Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 You can use shrikes infiltrate without chapter tactics so you indeed can outflank and fleet. *disregarded* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMouth Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Charge terminators with Mephiston, end of questioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDante Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Another idea would be to flank march down one side/ when he rolls his reserve roll and then enters board from the other side you can laugh your butt off. If however he come on the side he wanted shake his hand and say good game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMoon Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 ...and what good would charging all that terminator cheeze with mepheston? he runs in maybe kills 2 cause they all have a 3 plus then he dies..wooo then he gets a consolidation roll bringing him even closer..=fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 theres no way this unit can pull off a first turn charge, i hear people talk about being out of sight to be within 12", but i gaurantee theres no way a big 12 man unit on 40mm bases can be hidden anywhere on the table within charge range of your army.. its silly. its very easy to fall into the trap of bringing lots of low AP weapons to the board to kill termies, but with 3++ saves, its better to run with template weapons that can cause multiple wounds, i use t-fires to great effect against termies, roll enough dice you roll a few ones :) The exception to this is plasma cannons, which can do both.. and are alround awesome weapons. it doesnt matter that they consolidate towards you after they win a combat, your main priority is to ensure they dont get multiple charges and to make sure they are disengaged in your own shooting phase.. use terrain and spread your guys out in order to feed them a unit at a time. take out shrike asap, to get rid of his high 'I' LC attacks and then your guys can get attacks in even when they are going to get smashed. this is a unit you kill off over a three turn period, at which point the rest of his force are on your doorstep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 sanguinator? even astro can hurt them fairly well cause of his axe. but dont count on hurting them with a low investment of points. its gonna take equal or greater points to kill that unit, especially considering our termys with hammers and sheild cost more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel of justice Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 the only way i can see you doing anything is to spread out your deployment so it takes a turn or more to get to the next unit. and you can jump around the board that huge chunk cant capture objective and seems pretty hard to manouver so i guess use terrain against him as well. that ball of 800 points or so kinda sucks id drop the death company if you have a proxy for Dante take him wound and lower the initative of shrike but use him and a assault squad with a priest to deep strike in there deployment zone and wreak as much havoc as you can alternatively you could try 2 vindicators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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