Lysander + shrike + 10 infiltrating assault termies

[Isryion]

Have you considered reserving everything?

[greatcrusade08]

Have you considered reserving everything?

 

and have everything come on piecemeal so it can be torn apart bit by bit?

[RedMoon]

well i know the local guy that runs it hear earned himself a golden ticket to the grand tournament in Las Vegas and had 2 first turn charges in the tournament that got him there. so it can DEFINITELY be done. best bet is to vehicle up and hope you get to go first so you can move fast and get away from them. i played him with my wolves and put a chooser of the slain out in front and ended all that shenanigans REAL quick lol.

[greatcrusade08]

well i know the local guy that runs it hear earned himself a golden ticket to the grand tournament in Las Vegas and had 2 first turn charges in the tournament that got him there. so it can DEFINITELY be done. best bet is to vehicle up and hope you get to go first so you can move fast and get away from them. i played him with my wolves and put a chooser of the slain out in front and ended all that shenanigans REAL quick lol.

 

2 first turn charges in one tournament, im definately challenging the legality of that..

its far more likely that he was stealing inches or something.

 

the only possible way to make it work is to deploy out of LOS and just over 12" away.. generally this means a huge piece of LOS blocking terrain..

only noob opponents let this happen.. it definately shouldnt happen at a tournament.

 

remember they have to move around or through the terrain (if they are allowed, its completely solid to block LOS) and thats 2D6 pick the highest.. then D6 fleet, and a 6" charge or 2D6, (pick the highest) if its through cover..

you really have to be 12" away to make it work.. whats more youd have to charge something worthwhile otherwise youd get shot up after killing it..

[Highborn Mergula]

sounds like you need help against termies.....

my advice is 3preadtors with heavybolter sponsons. H bolter has 3shots so the preds has 6bolter shots 3preds=18H bolter shots and 6autocannon shots aturn i know it's cheesy though they can move 6ichhes and fire allof its guns.

that will kill atleast5termies a turn.

hope younderstand my bad english:P

[greatcrusade08]

the best way to kill anything is with thunderfire cannons ;)

[SamaNagol]

24 shots a turn which ALL hit and ALL wound will only kill 4 terminators a turn.

 

Only 2/3 shots fired will hit so that is already reduced to 2.66

 

And of those 6 autocannon shots which hit 5 will wound, of the 12 Heavy Bolter shots that hit only 8 will wound.

 

Which means your 3 predators will kill on average precisely 2.167 Terminators. However the player could choose to take multiple saves on Lysander and Shrike meaning that you could actually kill 0 in a turn.

[the jeske]

its far more likely that he was stealing inches or something.

not realy he just have to leave with shriek from a unit at the begin of the movment phase move 7"+ stay in the 2" [actualy it is a bit more because termi bases are bigger] auto join at the end of the movment phase then fleet as a whole unit and charge. So it is possible even without being 12" away.

[SamaNagol]

You cannot leave a unit and rejoin it in the same phase

[Drachnon]

I had to fight infiltrating assault terminators once but that was a 2 vs 2 battle and it wasn't a full squad (I think it was 8) plus only one special character (the one giving infiltrate which I think is Shriek). In the end they hardly did anything to our army half of them got killed by Astorath after we lured them into attacking two landspeeders that moved 12" (which only got stunned and shaken while all the thunderhammers missed). The rest had already died from half our army shooting them and the assault marines that were with Astorath.

[greatcrusade08]

its far more likely that he was stealing inches or something.

not realy he just have to leave with shriek from a unit at the begin of the movement phase move 7"+ stay in the 2" [actualy it is a bit more because termi bases are bigger] auto join at the end of the movment phase then fleet as a whole unit and charge. So it is possible even without being 12" away.

 

thats against the rules, whether or not you have left the unit is determined at the end of the movement phase.. as he is still attached to the unit (becuase he hasnt move away from them by 2") he has to move at the slowest speed

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Mephiston

Honour guard with 3 meltas

2 assault squads(10 marines) with 2 melta + PF

a 6 man death company with PF With a chaplain (in raven

and a DC dread with talons (in raven

a storm raven with TLLC, TL-Multimelta, EA

 

I propose charging everything into them at once. Between shooting and charging a full army should beat this unit down pretty handily. you got 72 regular attacks, 20 that reroll to hit and to wound. 6 from mephiston, 6 PF 3 PF that reroll everything. The 4 Chaplain reroll rolling everything. And the Dread's repeat attacks... Plus shooting.

 

its far more likely that he was stealing inches or something.

not realy he just have to leave with shriek from a unit at the begin of the movement phase move 7"+ stay in the 2" [actualy it is a bit more because termi bases are bigger] auto join at the end of the movment phase then fleet as a whole unit and charge. So it is possible even without being 12" away.

 

thats against the rules, whether or not you have left the unit is determined at the end of the movement phase.. as he is still attached to the unit (becuase he hasnt move away from them by 2") he has to move at the slowest speed

 

Im not sure if thats right... Wether you've joined a unit or not is definitely measured at the end of the movement but leaving is just done by moving the character away from the unit AFAIK.

[greatcrusade08]

believe me its correct, it was butchered in the rules forum a few months back..

you cant leave a unit and rejoin it in the same turn.. in order to leave a unit you have to move to be away from the unit by 2" at least, it is determined at the end of the movement phase whether or not youve left the unit..

all models within a unit have to move at the slowest speed, since you cant leave and rejoin a unit in the same turn, shrike would have to move 6" only

 

Wether you've joined a unit or not is definitely measured at the end of the movement but leaving is just done by moving the character away from the unit AFAIK.

i understand what your trying to say, but it doesnt make sense.. you cant be part of a unit at the beggining of the movement phase and part of the unit at the end of the movement phase, but inbetween be seperate.. it doesnt make sense..

[JamesI]

i understand what your trying to say, but it doesnt make sense.. you cant be part of a unit at the beggining of the movement phase and part of the unit at the end of the movement phase, but inbetween be seperate.. it doesnt make sense..

GC08 is correct on the rules here. Its not possible to move away and rejoin on the same turn (so Shrike using his jump pack to jump from the back of a line to the front while everyone else has to walk is not possible)

[daboarder]

Have you considered reserving everything?

 

and have everything come on piecemeal so it can be torn apart bit by bit?

 

 

other major flaw is infiltrate happens after declaration of reserve so if you do plan to DOA he just deploys the termies with the rest of his army and castles

[BOBMAKENZIE]

I took a glance through the threads in OR, But I don't agree (Admittably I didnt see any rules quoted and I dont have a BRB with me). Shrikes leaving, the terminators just happen to catch up. Same as say if I had a character in base to base with a dev marine. The Character tries to leave the forest they are in on his own. Rolls his DT and gets all 1s. He moves up to 1" trying to leave the unit. Fails to get the distance needed and then just reattaches automatically at the end...making the Devs count as moving. Its the same sort of principle. The Character tried to leave he just didnt quite make it. Is it rulesy and abit lawyery? probably but so are alot of things in this game. :P

[SamaNagol]

The reason why it is not possible is:

 

Leaving a unit is determined at the end of the movement phase if you are out of 2" coherency. That means that an IC will only be a separate unit at the end of the movement phase, after he has made his move. That means that when he makes his move he is still part of the unit and must move at the slowest speed. That also means that if you have a jump pack and wish to leave a unit in your movement phase you will not be able to move 12" until the turn AFTER you leave the unit.

[Byrne]

I just got beaten by a imperial fist player using shrike + lysander to infiltrate and get fleet on a 10 man strong assault terminator unit in a 1500 tournament...

Other than that he had 2 squads tac marines with las cannons, a ironclad dread, + another 5 man stormshield termies.

 

I played with :

mephiston

Honour guard with 3 meltas

2 assault squads(10 marines) with 2 melta + PF

a 6 man death company with PF With a chaplain (in raven

and a DC dread with talons (in raven

a storm raven with TLLC, TL-Multimelta, EA

 

My initial plan was to avoid that unit and kill off the rest of his army (objective: killpoints)

But avoiding fleeting terminators, 2 combat monster special characters was easier said than done...

so basically... What would you guys use to handle such a threat and still being competative against other armies? units, lots of Dakka?

 

For the record... I lost 8-5 that game

 

Also... not sure if I should post this in army lists or the blood angels forum...

 

Hello Eorek, Thank you for that game...

First of all, that army of mine was a little over the top for that tournament, we had the choise of enemies within the team and with a small table like that, I had the upper side from the beginning. I do think you could have done better if your army was fielded all on the table from the start.

For the terminator units there was not much to do, and with fleet they are as fast as bikes on a small table like that. And that always gave me the chanse to charge or intercept you.

 

You had som bad luck with reserve rolls, and then a scatter. I was hoping that you should play aggressivly and come to me.

 

During that tournament I had most trouble with plasmacannons and bolterfire, lost a bunch of terminator that way. But playing a spearhead army with terminators that fleet really makes up for a lot of trouble.

 

I also have a blood angel army, I run some Baal predators and some razorbacks with AC. maybe that would have been something, movement and fire?

 

Even though, it was the closest game during the night. (and the "foggiest" :woot:) thank you for a fun game.

[SincaiN]

The best tactic to beat this is the Dreadsock.

 

Put a metal Dread in a sock, and hit him with it for bringing that ball of cheese to the table.

 

hahhaaha nice .. agree, follow these instructions /\

[The Crimson Cartel]

the best way to kill anything is with thunderfire cannons :)

 

 

Usually..... But against marines and MEQ, it's a bit iffy. 3+ armor saves are one of the things that make us so good. And, as for avoiding this unit, do just that. Avoid it. BA army lists should be fast enough to stay away and shoot em.

 

-CC

[Isryion]

Have you considered reserving everything?

 

and have everything come on piecemeal so it can be torn apart bit by bit?

 

 

other major flaw is infiltrate happens after declaration of reserve so if you do plan to DOA he just deploys the termies with the rest of his army and castles

 

 

Well, I guess the idea was that you come in where you wouldn't instantly be assaulted. If he castles, you can bring things in out of range of the unit to start and hopefully get a turn or two of shooting in on it, especially with the stormraven. Either way, the idea is to deny him the ability to pinball and fewer turns with which to work. It seems to me that if you deploy everything, you're basically allowing him a major tactical advantage by figuring out where that unit can best be used. If you reserve everything, he doesn't get that advantage, the BA player does.

[d503]

Have you considered reserving everything?

 

and have everything come on piecemeal so it can be torn apart bit by bit?

 

 

other major flaw is infiltrate happens after declaration of reserve so if you do plan to DOA he just deploys the termies with the rest of his army and castles

 

Then you take objectives and win in 2/3 of games.

[greatcrusade08]

the best way to kill anything is with thunderfire cannons :)

 

Usually..... But against marines and MEQ, it's a bit iffy. 3+ armor saves are one of the things that make us so good. And, as for avoiding this unit, do just that. Avoid it. BA army lists should be fast enough to stay away and shoot em.

 

nah MEQ is my favourite target with them, infact its been known to have whole units of TEQ fall beneath them (Dsing so clumped together)... with 4 templates you make them roll alot of dice..

my favourite tactic is to destroy a transport and when the guys get out all squished together i throw a few S6 templates over them, ive been known to kill 7/10 with a single cannon (on several occasions) i think the highest was 8 and ive never not caused any casualties with one at MEQ targets.

[Spam Monkey]

Plasma Cannons.

Force him to roll as many dice as you can.

[Eorek]

I just got beaten by a imperial fist player using shrike + lysander to infiltrate and get fleet on a 10 man strong assault terminator unit in a 1500 tournament...

Other than that he had 2 squads tac marines with las cannons, a ironclad dread, + another 5 man stormshield termies.

 

I played with :

mephiston

Honour guard with 3 meltas

2 assault squads(10 marines) with 2 melta + PF

a 6 man death company with PF With a chaplain (in raven

and a DC dread with talons (in raven

a storm raven with TLLC, TL-Multimelta, EA

 

My initial plan was to avoid that unit and kill off the rest of his army (objective: killpoints)

But avoiding fleeting terminators, 2 combat monster special characters was easier said than done...

so basically... What would you guys use to handle such a threat and still being competative against other armies? units, lots of Dakka?

 

For the record... I lost 8-5 that game

 

Also... not sure if I should post this in army lists or the blood angels forum...

 

Hello Eorek, Thank you for that game...

First of all, that army of mine was a little over the top for that tournament, we had the choise of enemies within the team and with a small table like that, I had the upper side from the beginning. I do think you could have done better if your army was fielded all on the table from the start.

For the terminator units there was not much to do, and with fleet they are as fast as bikes on a small table like that. And that always gave me the chanse to charge or intercept you.

 

You had som bad luck with reserve rolls, and then a scatter. I was hoping that you should play aggressivly and come to me.

 

During that tournament I had most trouble with plasmacannons and bolterfire, lost a bunch of terminator that way. But playing a spearhead army with terminators that fleet really makes up for a lot of trouble.

 

I also have a blood angel army, I run some Baal predators and some razorbacks with AC. maybe that would have been something, movement and fire?

 

Even though, it was the closest game during the night. (and the "foggiest" :P) thank you for a fun game.

 

Indeed it was a fun game, Really the best part of the tourney(kinda wiped my other opponents off the tabel... cept the first ones, though that was due to some epicly bad rolls from my side) And you're among the harder opponents I've faced so far:P Make it to the top tables during fanatic so we can have a 2000p rematch:P