aekold Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 An issue came up last game with my vindicator firing at my opponents wave serpent. DUe to scattering the centre of the template was only partically on the wave serpent his engine. My opponent argued that since the hole of the blast marker wasn't conpletely covering the vehicle I only hit at half strength. I wasn't in the mood for arguing, so I let it slide. But I wanted to check anyway. In the samll rulebook on page 60 under 'Template and blast weapons against vehicles' their are 2 cases: 1. The centre of the blast marker ensd over the vehicle's hull -> hit at full strength 2. The centre of the blast marker ensd outside the vehicle, but part of the marker ccovers its hull -> hit at half strength. Nowhere is stated that the centre has to be entirely over the vehicle's hull, this in my eyes my opponent was wrong and I should have had a S10 hit on his vehicle. What are your opinions on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingo Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Firstly, I think you did very well to measure scatter so precisely that this was an issue! :) To be honest, and it is a bit of a rubbish answer, this is probably a situation where you need to roll off for it. Measuring scatter is very imprecise anyway, and I expect GW assumed that the little hole in the template would be small enough that such problems would be unlikely to present themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I would say that as the centre of the hole was over the vehicle (even partially) it count's as a str 10 hit, as the hole isn't not on the vehicle, but it can be a tricky one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I would say any of the hole as well. But rolling for it would have been acceptable I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Actually, the hole has nothing to do with it. The line reads: "The center of the blast marker ends over the vehicle's hull." This means the exact center, as it doesn't say: "The hole of the blast marker ends over the vehicle's hull." So, only if the exact pinpoint center of the entire marker lands on the vehicle do you get a full strength shell. Otherwise, it's half strength. Both players were incorrect :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 well, to me the centre of the blast marker is the hole, but I guess it is rather open to opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 well, to me the centre of the blast marker is the hole, but I guess it is rather open to opinion... More accurately (and more to Seahawk's point), the center of the blast marker is the center of the hole at it's center...not the hole itself. :P The center is a point; the hole is not a point...it's a circle itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingo Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 well, to me the centre of the blast marker is the hole, but I guess it is rather open to opinion... What Seahawk is saying is the centre is the very centre point of the circle, not the hole. However, the rulebook rather unhelpfully switches between using the term 'hole' and 'centre', and sometimes 'hole in the centre'. So what are we supposed to use? This seems to be another case of wordfail. Perhaps it's best to treat the geometric centre of the blast markers as the key point as that is at least a fixed and determinable point upon which both players can agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Given how easy-going they seem to be about the rules, I bet they feel if any point of the center hole is over the vehicle, that counts as a full-strength hit. But it's not written that way, and at a Hardboyz Tournament you'd be hard-pressed to find any player that doesn't go by the center of the center hole for this call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 the centre of the centre of the hole? ok I can see that, and admit that my conclusion may not have been the correct one, personally I think that "any part of the centre hole" makes for easier friendly playing (all ready discuss enough with my friend's over models being seen and cover due to true line of sight, dont need something else to argue about), but when playing vs people I dont know I shall be sure to discuss this with them, I hope :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Actually, the hole has nothing to do with it. The line reads: "The center of the blast marker ends over the vehicle's hull." This means the exact center, as it doesn't say: "The hole of the blast marker ends over the vehicle's hull." So, only if the exact pinpoint center of the entire marker lands on the vehicle do you get a full strength shell. Otherwise, it's half strength. Both players were incorrect :P ^ this!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingo Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 personally I think that "any part of the centre hole" makes for easier friendly playing Actually, practically speaking, this is probably the easiest way to go, correct or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 personally I think that "any part of the centre hole" makes for easier friendly playing Actually, practically speaking, this is probably the easiest way to go, correct or not. Seconded, and typically how I've seen it played at any friendly table I've been at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frost Axe Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 personally I think that "any part of the centre hole" makes for easier friendly playing Actually, practically speaking, this is probably the easiest way to go, correct or not. Seconded, and typically how I've seen it played at any friendly table I've been at. Thirded. I've ALWAYS done this and everyone I've ever played does the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Just because everyone does it, doesn't mean it's correct ;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slmellon Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 personally I think that "any part of the centre hole" makes for easier friendly playing Actually, practically speaking, this is probably the easiest way to go, correct or not. Seconded, and typically how I've seen it played at any friendly table I've been at. Thirded. I've ALWAYS done this and everyone I've ever played does the same. Fourthed. Imagine the hole in the center as the actually projectile and the rest of the marker as the blast it creates upon impact. Use the very very center when your firing a "blast laser" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 So you mean if everyone is running off the cliff I shouldn't follow? Maybe they have cookies down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Well why is the hole big enough for dispute if it isn't meant to be even a 'partial' centre is full strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Center, believe it or not, doesnt have to be a single point mathematically speaking- its just inside, and usually equidistant from the outside. The inside of a box is a large 'central' cavity for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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